Current Research on Efficacy of the Orton-Gillingham Program

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by teacherman1, Jan 28, 2014.

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  1. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Jan 29, 2014

    You need to care if you want to try to get buy in from others which is what you keep trying to do. Otherwise, it will be just your own quest to help just those you can come in contact with. However, it seems you want buy in. Am I wrong in that? Isn't that the reason you keep posting about this?

    You do realize, just about every parent I know that has a "dyslexic" child has tried the upside down book thing. They have tried the mirror image. I haven't at this point met one person that said it worked for them. That is why I keep questioning. I've known people that tried it. So, the question is, why does it work for you?

    What does identified dyslexic mean? I asked a specific question about them having been evaluated and if you saw the results to see a pattern. Your term identified dyslexic doesn't directly answer that question. How were they identified?
     
  2. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Jan 29, 2014

    Here's another post on my Guestbook. There are more if you're interested in taking a look:

    Well, just had a very similar discovery with an 8 year old today in the Adopt-A-Reader Program at my local elementary school where I volunteer as a friend of the kids having most difficulties reading. This little boy struggles so hard...Anyway, today when he turned his reader over, almost by "mistake", he instinctively went to the lower right hand corner of the page (which would be the top, if he were reading normally) and read with the improved fluency we've all been wishing for him for the whole year! I was flabbgergasted and had him repeat this trick to the reading specialist and his regular classroom teacher. They immediately wanted to correct him. I wanted to find out how he was able to do this, so came home and started research which brought me to this site. I'd really like to hear other people's opinions and experiences with dyslexia being treated by reading upside down. Tell me more, and what else I can do to help this kid? He's very bright, but I don't know any more of his medical or family history, other than lots of people have been frustrated in their efforts to improve his reading thus far. What else can I do?

    Now, my guess is that the parent's reaction was similar to the teachers and that it went nowhere.
    That poor kid is probably still struggling.

    Maybe this is why she was seeing this side of her student:

    "Well, just had a very similar discovery with an 8 year old today in the Adopt-A-Reader Program at my local elementary school where I volunteer as a friend of the kids having most difficulties reading."
     
  3. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Jan 29, 2014

    Oh, well. I tried twice now to get my question answered about how these dyslexics were identified and instead I get a deflection.

    You do realize, it is ok to say that you don't know how they were identified or that they haven't been professionally assessed for dyslexia, they just struggle.

    I wish you well, Teacherman.
     
  4. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Jan 29, 2014

    I'm not intentionally trying to dodge that end of the question. Some were kids I previously identified (through DIBELS DRA, PALS) as my lowest performers in class, some are referred to me by teachers who've worked with them every day and have exhausted their "bag of tricks", some by frustrated parents who can't get any results in their schools and some who have gone through the whole gamut of testing and have been formally identified as dyslexic.

    In other words, I welcome working with the lowest of the low performers. These are not The "yellow" kids. They are the red flag kids. That's how I define "identified".

    This is much different than the university study we recently completed, where 200 random kids were screened for PI. These kids ran the full range in their reading levels.
     
  5. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Jan 29, 2014

    Just trying to clarify, not argue. Am I correct in understanding that your term "identified dyslexic" means struggling reader? It is an important difference because not all severely struggling readers are dyslexic.
     
  6. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Jan 29, 2014

    Assuming our conversation of research is over?
     
  7. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Jan 29, 2014

    I think you and Teacherman can pick up where you left off.
     
  8. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    You don't want to pick up the torch a2z? :)
     
  9. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Jan 29, 2014

    I haven't read any of the information, but I just wanted to say that the 2nd grade team is starting some of the OG strategies (like the 3-part drill) in our classrooms next week. I purchased some of the materials, and a teacher on my team was trained (I WISH I could have been!). I'm excited to try it out!
     
  10. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I don't need to purchase it. I have enough experience with Orton-Gillingham to know that it has helped a lot of students with reading. I have nothing but good things to say about OG.
     
  11. DHE

    DHE Connoisseur

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    Jan 29, 2014

  12. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Jan 30, 2014

    Agreed:), a2z....
    Not all severely struggling readers are dyslexic. I've always taught in a "regular ed" classroom, so kids with issues such as MR, severe vision and hearing loss, and severe emotional and stress problems are usually not placed in my classroom.

    In addition, our school has a very strong phonics-based reading program. So when all of those factors have been eliminated as possible causes, then most, if not all, of the "red flag" kids are part of that 20%.
     
  13. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Jan 30, 2014

    I agree that Orton-Gillingham is a great program:).

    Now, if they could allow flexibility in how kids position their reading materials, PI kids could also benefit from the program....
     
  14. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Jan 31, 2014

    Yesterday I put in a call to Drs. Sally and Bennet Shawitz at the Yale Center for Dyslexia and Creativity to set up an appointment. It's about a 2-3 hour drive from here, but I will do whatever it takes to get this thing moving.

    My plan is to present all of my gathered evidence to see if I can get them interested in doing a formal study on PI. I will offer to help in any way I can to get this done right the first time.

    Do you have any ideas about what the study would/should/could include?

    I don't want to spend another 3 years of time and effort (like my wife and I just did) only to have people (especially teachers) say that the study wasn't properly done.

    Any proposals that you give me I will pass along to Yale when and if they give me an appointment.:)

    Steve

    PS - It will be interesting to see if I get an appointment. She is out of the office for the next week or so, according to her secretary.

    Suzanne Arena (RI dyslexia advocate) and I have tried several times before to contact her and never received a reply.
     
  15. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Jan 31, 2014

    If she's at a university (especially one like Yale) then I'd imagine she'd have the resources to put together an effective study. I would probably not come in asking for specific elements of the study other than expressing your desire for it to be as neutral and impartial as possible. I'd express that you have had successful personal experiences, feel it could be helpful, but have had resistance from other professionals with adoption of the idea because of the lack of empirical support. An unbiased study by a third party would not only potentially provide needed support, but help you better understand this technique which you've dedicated a lot of time to. In short, appeal to their expertise and resources.

    Honestly, though, a lot of faculty already have well-developed lines of research, and you may be less likely to find a seasoned research interested in a completely new topic. So, I might consider asking if you she would consider mentioning this to graduate students interested in a thesis or dissertation project. You might get more bites, particularly if a grad student knows there's someone in the community willing to work hard to line up participants, secure a research site, etc.

    I'd also consider the responses you've gotten here on this forum, and think about what things you've said that have triggered those responses - good and bad - and give thought to your approach. For example, with using the older research study in the other thread going on, did you have anyone that found that convincing? If not, maybe that's an indication to not use that study in trying to convince the folks at Yale to get more involved.

    One final piece of advice, sort of what I already said, is to build within yourself a true desire to discover the truth. Let curiosity, not confirmation, be your appeal to researchers. If I were a university researcher, I'd be less interested in working with someone determined to prove themselves right than someone with a genuine thirst for answers.
     
  16. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Feb 1, 2014

    Good morning a2z,
    This struck me as very curious when you posted it the other day, but this is the first time I've had a chance to address it.

    It's interesting that "every parent (you) know that has a dyslexic child has tried the "upside-down book thing."

    I have never run into one parent or teacher who had ever tried it, and when I turn the book for the first time they look at me like I (and their child) has two heads.

    Have your acquaintences tried it because you suggested it to them?
     
  17. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Feb 1, 2014

    No.
     
  18. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    So where did they hear about it? It's not something parents or teachers of "dyslexic" kids would normally do.

    In fact, they usually go out of their way to stop kids from forming (what they perceive) as "bad habits"....

    This 74 year old reading teacher tells of her experiences:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l2JSVf6toM
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Your guess is as good as mine, Teacherman.
     
  20. kab164

    kab164 Companion

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    Feb 1, 2014

    I am very Interested in learning more about PI as I work with struggling readers. I am willing to try anything that may help my students

    I do not agree that OG isn't effective. I have seen great results using it with dyslexic children I tutor. Our school psychologist said that one of the reasons there's not a lot of proof that OG works is because every teacher uses it a little bit differently so it's hard to do research studies on it (in comparison to a scripted program such as phonics for Reading).

    I had one of my students graduate second in her class after having a very rough start with reading in elementary. She is now graduating from college and has written to me more than once to thank me for helping to "change her life." I am not saying this to brag, but rather to note that OG is what I used with her.

    I think the effectiveness of any program or approach depends on the fidelity the teacher uses with it. There is no one right answer as every student and situation is different.
     
  21. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Feb 2, 2014

    :):):) I've been waiting for someone like you, kab164.

    I can't tell you that you need to attend a special training or buy a book. Just watch this video and try to duplicate the feeling of this screening - relaxed, laid-back, non-threatening, encouraging (Good! Nice job! Great! Take your time! Don't worry about it! I'll help you with the hard ones! etc. etc.), glass of blueberry juice;)

    The boy in this "training video" was not a PI reader, but I can guarantee that if he had been, you would have seen it in the first 5 minutes.

    Please keep us posted on how this goes. I will help you in any way I can - either on A2Z or through the PIreading website.

    Thanks,
    Steve


    PS - I never, ever said that OG isn't effective. It does what it's supposed to do for lots of struggling readers - especially those with auditory dyslexia.

    It just misses the mark with many visual dyslexics because they don't allow PI kids to rotate their reading materials.
     
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