CSET Multiple Subjects Exam now being waived?

Discussion in 'Multiple Subject Tests' started by Jammy, May 23, 2019.

  1. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    May 23, 2019

    I was simply curious as to how some educators who had to pass the exam feel about a new wave of aspiring educators now being able to waive the exam. I have personally heard of students in teacher preparation programs who can not even pass the CBEST and try to get it waived and I wonder if the teaching profession is even right for them. I understand if I am coming across as judgemental but I wonder if by waiving the exam and substituting it for more course work on elementary general education subjects is enough to make sure that capable individuals are being awarded teaching credentials. At times I feel the CSET is necessary but, then there's the RICA which is largely known to be an outdated exam and yet is still required as far as I know.
     
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  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    May 24, 2019

    “The CBEST, for example, can be waived if a student scores at least a 500 on the SAT English exam and at least 550 on the SAT math exam, or scores a 22 or higher on the ACT English exam and a 23 or higher on the ACT math exam. The test also can be waived if a student passes the CSET: Multiple Subjects test, plus a related writing examination, or earns a 3 or above on specific high school Advanced Placement tests.

    In some cases, the CSET can be waived if students pass commission-approved coursework, aligned to each test, while they are earning their undergraduate degrees.”

    https://edsource.org/2019/required-tests-roadblock-for-many-california-teacher-candidates/607239
     
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  4. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    May 24, 2019

    I think this is a slippery slope that we should not be treading on. Most aspiring teachers pass their certification tests on the first try, so I don’t see why the CTC is changing it’s licensure requirements to accommodate a minority of people who cannot demonstrate their subject-matter competency.
     
  5. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    May 24, 2019

    Let me interject some historical perspective. Waiver of the CBEST requirement on the strength of SAT or ACT scores (both tests are more challenging than CBEST) is relatively recent, and became policy along with waiver on the basis of passing either the ELM (math) and EPT (language) placement test package or CSU's in-house placement tests; all of these are more rigorous than CBEST. Waiver of CBEST on the basis of passing CSET: Multiple Subjects plus CSET: Writing has been available since shortly after the 2003 inception of the CSET program (the rationale is that CSET-MS Subtest II explicitly tests math at a more sophisticated level than CBEST does, and reading comprehension is implicitly and more rigorously tested in the whole of any subject-matter CSET with the possible exception of CSET Math, which doesn't generally feature passages to unpack). Waiving teacher subject-matter tests on the basis of completing a CTC-approved subject-matter preparation program was more frequent before CSET: fewer universities have CTC-approved subject-matter programs.

    I'll add that CBEST or CSET: Writing, CSET-Multiple Subjects, and RICA are the tests of record not only for a standard elementary-education credential but also for a full special education credential, whether mild-to-moderate or moderate-to-severe. While the moderate-to-severe population can include students who are physically or emotionally challenged but intellectually capable of handling the standard curriculum, the majority of the students are not: a significant number of them will never reach Piaget's concrete operational stage and simply can't manipulate symbols well enough to learn to read. The mismatch between subject matter tested and subject matter taught has been a point of complaint among special-education credential candidates for years; it would be unsurprising to find that some of the renewed impetus for waivers to testing has special education in view.

    Genuine test anxiety - where someone who's skilled and competent outside of a standardized-testing situation freezes up mentally in the presence of a standardized test, and cannot unfreeze - is a terrible thing. It's also fairly rare. Because it does exist, I'm not against some reasonable alternatives to teacher tests.

    With that said, however, what most struggling test takers who claim test anxiety experience is what most good test takers experience before a test - that is, pre-performance jitters, with the fluttery stomach and the accelerated pulse and, in the case of very bright test takers, a hefty dose of impostor syndrome. The difference is partly that, while the good test takers have stumbled into ways to manage those sensations for the time it takes to succeed, the less skilled test takers have learned - and, entirely too frequently, have been taught explicitly - that only bad test takers feel that way and that so feeling is (further) proof both that one is incompetent as a test taker. All of this can be remedied, but regarding those who struggle with testing as contemptible for struggling is both wholly counterproductive and at least potentially unteacherly.
     
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  6. LorixC

    LorixC Rookie

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    Jun 15, 2019

    If it is being waived in the future I think I would be a bit upset, just finally finished up two of the CSETs and CBEST.
     
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  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Jun 15, 2019

    Right, I’m all for giving test takers a fee waiver after a certain number of attempts and free or discounted test prep and such, or even extending the deadline from 1-3 years, but not an exemption. How is that fair to those who were required to take it/them and passed?

    After all, there is no exemption for an MD/DO passing their medical boards or a JD from having to pass the State Bar, so why should teacher licensure be any different? It only dilutes the profession.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  8. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    Jul 8, 2019

    Although I appreciate everyone's responses to my poorly posed question, I have to say that your opinion on this is the most popular I have encountered when asking veteran teachers. They are unsure what this will mean for future teachers and question how prepared they will be to teach without passing such exams and I am also upset that I have encountered students in teacher preparation programs complain and say they would rather take more classes than have to pass CSET and I found that attitude "unteacherly" they really saw it as taking the "easy way out" so to speak but I just hope the commission-approved coursework is adequate enough to prepare future teachers.
     
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  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Jul 8, 2019

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dianah

    Dianah New Member

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    Jul 31, 2019

    I have taken the CSET 2 math/science twice last year and I will be taking it for my 5th time August 9th. I was as close as 4 points away from 220 and wasted $50 to have my test score verification. I have taken the test in different counties in hopes I would pass on my CR's. I get ++++ science and +++ in math M/C and only 1 out of 4 check marks in CR usually in math. No matter how I try to figure out what I am doing wrong with my CR's they lack K. I have only had 1 test repeated. I have since lost my teaching position and wasted my STIP for the last 6 weeks of the 2018-19 school year. This CSET was the only thing I had left then 2- 8 wk student teaching with my university and my portfolio submission. Cheers to persistence!
     
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  11. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    I am so sorry that happened to you. I hope you do well this time around!

    Since you say you always get a k do you think you're not answering the prompt entirely or not explaining your answers well?

    What resources do you usually use to study with?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  12. Dianah

    Dianah New Member

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    Aug 1, 2019

    I have used Teacher Test Prep online ( doesn't help with CR). Cliff Notes and Kaplan. I tried the CSET test prep 18-19 no constructed response help. I watch youtube videos. I even told my previous aid what was needed and (thanks to me according to him) he passed!

    With science there is SO much to cover. I have only had one repeat of my constructed questions July of 2018 less than a week after my mom unexpectedly passed away and I couldn't cancel so I just went. I have taken great notes on what questions I have had for 7 versions. Math is the only check I get because its a problem with a method to solve verses science and ALL the vocab!

    What's worse I felt like I kicked CSET's butt in May ended up with lower scores than before.
    I am a special education teacher I teach middle school history and language arts. I feel I say too much in my responses because I am used to having to differentiate my instruction.
     
  13. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    I see, I agree that the science is much more challenging than the math and I very much believe that all the cset prep for science is completely outdated. When I took subtest 2 back in December of 2018 absolutely nothing of what I studied from cliffnotes, teacher test prep, and the ctc practice test was on my exam. The only reason I passed that subtest on my first attempt was because I scored 4 +s on the science and math for the multiple choice section and 3 checkmarks aside from one p,k. The best advice I can give you is to study more of the math so you can make sure to obtain 4 +'s on the multiple choice and 2 checkmarks on the scr. You already received 4 +'s on the science multiple choice so you can afford to miss on the science scr.
     
  14. Mai

    Mai Rookie

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    Sep 12, 2019

    a bit unrelated, but I'm in New Orleans and plan to move to Cali. Here we are required to take the PRAXIS 2, is it easier than the CSET? Wondering if I should do everything here then transfer to Cali...but wondering if Cali will make me do more test. Any advice on which test may be best to take (math and science are my most challenging subjects).
     
  15. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Sep 13, 2019

    Welcome to A to Z, Mai. If you hold a full professional license in your state, then the information at https://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/out-of-state-element pertains to you: if the specific Praxis II that you took satisfies California's subject-matter requirements, you may not have to take CSET-MS.

    You could simply apply - the whole process is online - and see what the Commission on Teacher Credentialing (CTC) tells you you still need. If you'd rather get questions answered first by a live person, figure out to which California county you're moving, then use your browser to search for "__ education", where the blank is filled by the name of the county: this should yield a link for the county office of education (COE, except for Orange County, which has a Department of Education), and if you rummage around on that site you should find a way to contact the credential analysts working there.
     
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  16. Dianah

    Dianah New Member

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    Sep 17, 2019

    I passed! I studied all math YouTube videos and ended up again 4++++ in science MC ✅in science CR and 3+++ in math MC and ✅ in math CR. I’m going back to teaching with an intern credential at the end of October 2019. 7th time is a charm for cset MS 2 (math science).
     
  17. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    Sep 17, 2019

    Congratulations!!!!!! :rofl:
     
  18. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Sep 18, 2019

    Well done, Dianah!
     
  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Your post made me smile. Well done and congratulations!
     
  20. cherrylee21

    cherrylee21 Rookie

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    Hello! I have taken the MS subtest 2 four times and I cannot pass it. I am two points away every time but I cannot get any checkmarks on the open response questions. I am really struggling and feel that I am losing hope. Does anyone have a good resource for open response questions that will help me pass?
     
  21. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Sep 27, 2019

    If you're not getting checkmarks, what diagnostic indicators are you getting? What about the plus marks? Are your most recent results pretty consistent with your previous score reports?
     
  22. cherrylee21

    cherrylee21 Rookie

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    Sep 28, 2019

    This past time I had
    Science +++, math +++ and written responses K, KS, K, K. with a 218

    the time before I had:
    science +++, math +++ and written responses, checkmark, KS, U-B, and K
    with 218

    and before that was
    science, ++++, math +++ and written responses K, K, PK, and K but with a 213 score

    and the one previous to that was lower at 200 because I didn't get to the open response questions but I cannot pass the open response and I do not know why. What can I do differently?
     
  23. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    The k indicator means that the response failed to show off knowledge of the topic addressed by the question. I'll hazard a guess that you're not using enough technical terminology, or perhaps not writing for an audience of fellow teachers.

    Let me note, however, that one doesn't pass the constructed response or the multiple choice: one passes the subtest as a whole. If you can get your +++ indicators in multiple choice consistently up to ++++, you can collect enough raw points to achieve the fabled 220 scaled score without much help from the constructed response score.
     
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  24. cherrylee21

    cherrylee21 Rookie

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    Oct 5, 2019


    what youtube videos did you study? please send me any help you can!!!
     
  25. cherrylee21

    cherrylee21 Rookie

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    hi!! what youtube videos did you watch? any studying tools and prep i would love to have!
     
  26. Jammy

    Jammy Rookie

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    For the math section there's this playlist by the youtube channel Laura Rickhoff that goes through each of the questions from the CTC practice test just search cset multiple subject subtest 2 math. That was enough for me along with the cliffnotes prepbook and teachers test prep practice tests.
     
  27. WongHF

    WongHF Rookie

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    Oct 24, 2019

    About CSET exams being waived:
    There are a few universities offering undergraduate Mathematics, Science and etc program that will be equivalent to CSET exams. Whoever managed to pass and graduated from the program will not have to sit for the CSET exams. As the undergraduate program is equivalent to a few years of learning in Mathematics and Science. I have seen the courses for Maths, it includes all aspects, calculus, algebra and etc.
    For me, I could not start from an undergraduate program anymore.
    I rather take all the exams as soon as possible.
     
  28. cherrylee21

    cherrylee21 Rookie

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    Oct 27, 2019

    Sorry guys, another question! Does anyone know how many points or if I would get a checkmark if I had all pieces of a math problem right but I got the wrong answer? I realized for a question I divided the problem by 8 instead of 6 but I did all the same steps I should have to get the correct answer but had different numbers. Anyone ever do this but somehow still received a checkmark? or what would i get, a K?
     
  29. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Seems to me that the answer that's strong except for a brainfart is likelier to get a p than a k: knowledge has been shown, after all, and the letters represent shortcomings. And, yes, I think a checkmark is possible for such an answer.

    Bear in mind, though, that what determines whether you pass isn't p, k, s, or checkmark: it's points, and acquiring enough raw points from multiple choice and constructed responses that, once the CSET score-scaling algorithm is finished, the result is a scaled score of 220 or greater.

    Points for constructed response are issued holistically: zero to the answer left blank, the answer that's strikes the scorers as gibberish, or the answer that is wildly, wildly off base; 1 for the answer that's weak but in the ballpark; 2 for the answer that's adequate; 3 for the answer that's great. Letter(s) or checkmark, as I understand it, simply represent someone's best guess of why the scorers gave the points they gave.
     
  30. Tim Rymel

    Tim Rymel Guest

    Apr 29, 2020

    My spouse has a learning disability and he's taken the CSET multiple times. The only section he can't pass is math and science. He has a language processing disorder and, though he can verbally give the answer, he struggles to write it out. He was seven points away from passing last time.

    His story is quite remarkable. He comes from an immigrant family with a background of abuse. Because of his learning disability, he couldn't complete high school until he was in his early 20s. It took him ten years to get his associates degree, and then two years after that to earn his bachelor's degree. He's currently completing his master's program with a special education credential. He speaks Spanish, English, and American sign language, and he now read and writes in braille, including math and science braille. He's a passionate, gifted teacher and adored by students and faculty. But that damn CSET... What options does he have besides taking the CSET over and over again? Are there courses he can take? Can he verbally answer questions that he struggles to write out? This is putting his entire career in jeopardy and that would be a huge loss to the populations he serves.
     
  31. WongHF

    WongHF Rookie

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    May 3, 2020

    Tim Rymel,
    Hi, can your husband find out from the university where he is currently completing his master's degree? Maybe they will know what to suggest to your husband regarding the other options instead of taking CSET test.
     
  32. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    It's possible, @Tim Rymel, that your husband is working too hard on writing pretty. A successful response looks pretty much like the notes he might leave for a substitute teacher that he knows is skilled and intelligent but who may not altogether get how Common Core math and science work. Scorers are looking for a judicious selection of technical terms, but they don't demand full sentences if a bullet list will do the job.
     

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