Controversial...

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by SCTeachInTX, Sep 10, 2011.

  1. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    My friend's daughter, a teacher, was recently offered the opportunity to substitute teach in a great, small district which would lead to a very probable full time position once the maternity leave ended. (The job was hers if she did a good job at her substituting maternity leave.) It would have been great, because this particular teacher was an alt. certified teacher and only needed to prove herself for a few weeks and then, she would have a full time teaching position.

    But, the new teacher opted out of the position and decided to work on her 2nd masters degree instead and continue to substitute teach on an almost daily basis. She decided the stress of starting a new job and not having the flexibility of substitute teaching when she wants to, is not worth it to her. She also stated that she just felt more comfortable subbing in her current district and was a little freaked out that she would be the new kid in a new situation. She wants to teach... but she chose not to teach in a full time capacity.

    Everyone has to make decisions as to what is right for him or her and I certainly do not judge the decision of this young teacher. But, there is a part of me that wonders if she should have let this opportunity slip away from her in these uncertain times. I see so many hopeful teachers on this website and think of how many of YOU that would have jumped at this opportunity.

    What do you think???:confused:

    The good news is that they already hired a person that is enthusiastic and confident that she can do the job. She started last week and I hear that she LOVES the new job. I know this because this teacher was my student teacher. So, everything does work out in the end.:angel:
     
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  3. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    As an alternative route teacher, perhaps she felt that she needed more experience subbing before jumping right in? If so, that was probably wiser than potentially not doing a good job at the lt assignment. That would probably damage her future prospects more.
     
  4. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    SO not the choice I would have made!!!

    She doesn't want to be the "new kid in a new situation"?? How on earth does ehe expect to ever begin teaching?

    The only way to be a teacher is to teach. She was offered the opportunity, and I think her choice was a poor one. She'll have two Masters degrees and no experience... probably not the strongest combination.
     
  5. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    I guess I should have been clear. She has subbed for years for a different district while she was in grad school. She has had lots of substituting experience. And again, I am not judging. She made another new teacher extremely happy and I am sure the principal is happy to have someone who feels enthusiastic to be there.
     
  6. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    That is what I am thinking too. She says that she desperately wants to teach ONE DAY. But right now, it just is not the right time. Grad school, a new job, and not being sure of herself in this capacity made her too afraid to try. I am not judging honestly. But, I do feel a little sad that she is too afraid to go after what she says that she wants.

    And remember this is her second master's degree. So, I am wondering what she will owe when she finally feels ready to teach.
     
  7. teach'ntx

    teach'ntx Comrade

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    When is it the right time?
    I went through Alt Cert, had no student teaching, was leaving a nice paying corporate job, and was coming in once the year started.
    I was scared out of my mind (not that I let it show) but if you don't jump in with both feet - are you really ever going to get in?? Just my opinion.
     
  8. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

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    I would have taken it. If I were a new teacher just getting certified in this current economy I would bite at anything and be happy with it and make it work...That's just me though.
     
  9. Lynn K.

    Lynn K. Habitué

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    I get it. I loved subbing! I loved that every day was a new challenge, that I had the option not to work if I was sick or something, and that I got to know a lot of teachers and students and what worked and didn't work. If I could have afforded it, I would have subbed forever.

    I love teaching and am so glad I was hired when I was; I couldn't imagine doing anything else, now. But I am thankful there are great subs out there! When we don't have a "real" sub, my p hires parents to come in. Yikes.
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    As teachers, we all know that we are always going to have a lot on our plates: job, classes, family. It can be daunting, but it's the reality we all live. This girl may know in her heart that she truly isn't ready, in which case it's probably the right decision. But unfortunately, this does sound like a missed opportunity that may not come around again.:(.
     
  11. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    I get that Lynn K. If you are ultimately happy at subbing and the challenges that position presents, I would say... go for it. But this teacher is telling her mother that her passion is teaching. She tells her mom that she cannot wait to have her own class and even hoped to get a teacher's assistant job if that came available in the district that she currently subs in. But again, when a teaching job landed in her lap (in a different district), she chose to pass it up. I guess this is on my mind because I was talking to her Mom who felt compelled to justify her daughter's position. Her mom does not mind that her daughter still lives at home. But, the cost of another few years of grad school does have her mom worried. The degree will apply to teaching (Reading) but in the meantime, her loans are mounting, and given the opportunity to have a teaching job (which she says is her passion and desperately wants to do), she opts to sub most days and start a new grad program. Her first degree was in (BS) psychology, and her masters is in science. She wants to work with elementary aged students which is why she is certified K-8 ed. generalist. Interesting.

    I do feel for her Mom who has been in education for many more years than I have and is an amazing teacher.
     
  12. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    This is how I feel. I guess, I am trying to see the daughter's side of things. I always say, never judge until you walk in someone else's shoes. And I have not walked in her shoes. I suspect... (And I hope I am wrong) that she is either too afraid to try a position outside of her comfort zone district. Or she could be one of those people that enjoys school and never really wants to graduate and get started in the real world of bills, and real responsibilities. But again, I have not walked in her shoes so I have no idea the rationale that she uses to justify her decisions. I was just hoping that someone HERE could explain it to me if they had been in similar situation. :) The teacher btw seems perfectly content with her decision, and is able to spend time shopping, hanging out at home, and studying at her leisure as well as working when the opportunity presents itself. Not a bad life if you think about it.... Maybe I am the one who should be questioning MY choices of working full time, full time mother, wife, bringing papers and plans home to work on each weekend, attending professional development regularly, leading a team of teachers on staff, etc. It does sound a little like my plate is very full. ha ha!:lol:
     
  13. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I wouldn't have made that decision, but each person must do what is right for him/her.
     
  14. Geauxtee

    Geauxtee Comrade

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    It sounds to me like this person hasn't tasted the sting of this particular job market yet. She probably thinks that's "when she is ready" there will be a job waiting for her.
     
  15. cutekids2

    cutekids2 Rookie

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    It's hard to know why people make the choices they do, but we have to do what is right for us.

    Now, as an alt certified, going on 3rd year subbing, I would have jumped at the chance. :). I've taken sub jobs no one else would take due to behavior issues. I was fearful...the assignments are tough, have brought me to tears, but i know I'm making a difference and paving the path to a future classroom. For me, and my passion to teach, I have to jump in with both feet and know everything else will outweigh the fear.
     
  16. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    That's not the decision I would have made.

    It sounds a little like the saga that another user here has posted about.
     
  17. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    :rolleyes:
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    :lol: Sorry to bring it up again.
     
  19. r2turtle

    r2turtle Rookie

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    This is not the decision I would have made. Personally, I would have jumped at the chance in this uncertian economy. Especially with the chance it becoming more permanent. That being said, I am sure she has her reasons.
     
  20. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Sometimes people just know when something is not the right time for them. I had an opportunity once that seemed like a really good opportunity, and people told me that I'd be crazy not to do it, but I turned it down because something about it just didn't feel right. It ended up being an okay decision, and I have never regretted it.
     
  21. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    There was a time in my teaching career when I took a position in a different district. Something about the district during a summer training made me question my decision. I continued to job search and never signed the contract. But, the P thought that I was going to take the position... I felt terrible when I was able to land a position in a school where I really wanted to be and had to tell him that I would not be joining his staff. His first instinct was to offer me my choice of positions within the school. I told him that while I really appreciated the offer, I just needed to take this other job. I used the excuse that it would be closer to my home and my child. He, then, told me that he was sorry, but I had signed a contract and would have to stay because it was binding. It was then that I told him that I had never signed a contract. He was upset, but there was little he could do. He wished me well. I knew walking out that door that I had burned a bridge and I felt AWFUL about that. But, it was in my best interests and it ended up landing me future positions that enhanced my career path. I, too, never looked back or regretted my decision. Many people would have told me to stick with my initial decision upon accepting the job. And I always felt like a heel for basically going back on my word. But, it was the best decision for me. So, I do not judge others.

    Update: My friend called today. This is the mom of the new teacher in my original post. She said that after seeing her daughter's course load that she is so glad that her daughter did not take the original position. Mom is feeling better about the decision and ultimately as long as SHE is happy, I am happy.
     
  22. linswin23

    linswin23 Cohort

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    Hands down...I would have taken the job, but that is just me. You are right, everyone is different and has different needs/ideas for the way they are going to go about in their career.

    However, when opportunity knocks I feel like sometimes people don't take it like they should. Teaching is never an easy profession to get started, but you have to start somewhere.
     
  23. HOPE-fulTeacher

    HOPE-fulTeacher Comrade

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    SC, had the daughter already signed up for/paid for these classes? I guess what I don't understand about it is why she didn't take the teaching job and then start/work on her reading certification in the next couple of years.
     
  24. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Yes. She had. But lots of people go to grad school and work. Her classes are in the evening or online. Not sure why she made her decision other than what she told her mom.
     
  25. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    I'm sure this is going to sound very judgmental, but I wonder how I would accept a classmate in a grad class which is clearly geared towards working teachers, who wasn't and never had been. I'm not sure I would be able to take that person very seriously. That's not very nice, I know, but true. Every grad class I have taken has been very interactive and experienced based.
     
  26. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I would have jumped at the job. Obviously, I don't know this person at all so this is just something that popped into my head reading the story. I could be way off base but just a suggestion. Is it possible that this girl really does want to be a teacher, but is feel nervous about her ability to actually do it? To me, going for more schooling when she already has a masters and could have had a job sounds like she was simply afraid to take the leap and actually start teaching- like she thinks that even more classes will help her be more prepared. Just a thought. Although that's great that she enjoys going to school and learning more, I think that's such a poor financial decision. Many schools nowdays don't even pay much extra or anything extra for having even one masters, and I would assume not many will pay anything extra for the 2nd one. So she's building up all this debt that will only increase more and more with loan interest, and not making any significant income at all. When she's done with this masters program, she has no idea that she'll find a job right away either...it's just a risk I personally wouldn't take. I would actually like to go back to school at some point, but my current district pays so little for having a masters that I'd literally have to work for 10-15 years to even break even (and that's not including interest or accounting for the fact that with more budget cuts that bonus might go away all together). I haven't been to grad school, so this is only from what others have said, but I've also heard that they ask you do a lot of things with your classroom. How will she complete those assignments with no classroom?
     
  27. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    @waterfall, I thought the same thing when I read the story.
     
  28. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    These are all the same questions I have had running through my head... She truly believes that when she graduates that there will be a dream job waiting for her. I think she is banking on her Mom to help her when she feels she is ready. Her mom will not retire for another 6 to 10 years. I am not even sure if dear old Mom is not funding this little adventure. I could never ask, but I wonder because the daughter seems so unconcerned about paying back any debt. I say she seems that way... I don't really know. I guess it is just the lifestyle of going to the gym and hanging by the backyard pool that makes me suspect that. I know her parents pay her gym membership. It is entirely possible they are financing her college tuition too. Who knows maybe they paid for the first 6 years and now she is paying for this round? I would never ask. It just is not the question one asks. The parents are not rich mind you. They live in a decent middle income house and both work.
     
  29. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Why so much concern about all this?

    Our neighbors assume all sorts of stuff about me because I live at home and do not help my parents with yard work or things around the house, or shoveling snow. They have made comments and treat me with a fair bit of hostility. None of their business.

    I understand some curiosity, but it seems like a waste of energy.
     
  30. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Mollydoll- I live states away. My friend is my confidant. I talk to her every other day. Our families take vacations together in the summer. We are more than friends. There is a level of concern that perhaps you cannot understand. I love my friend's daughter and would do anything for her. I guess that is the main reason I would like to understand the situation from her prospective. Like I said, I am all about helping my friend through this. She was pretty distraught when she first called me. Perhaps you have close friends? It is hard to see a friend upset. That is just me.

    I have no idea about your situation.
     
  31. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    I can understand how she feels. I'm one of those people who, once I've made up my mind about a major life thing, it's really hard to convince me to change my mind. It seems this job came along after she had registered for classes and arranged to be subbing. She had probably worked very hard to convince herself that it was best for her since it didn't seem she would find a job. Once I'm emotionally invested in something, that's it for me.
     
  32. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    Without reading everyone's post...

    My feeling is she was overwhelmed as new teachers often are and assumed that meant she wasn't ready. The truth of the matter is, if she isn't going to do it now, she likely isn't going to do it with a second degree.

    Edit: I'm assuming the first degree was related but then again, if she is alt. certified, maybe not. In that case she might have assumed that because she felt overwhelmed it must be because she didn't have the same background.
     
  33. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I just ask because it seems like there is nothing anybody is going to offer that will clarify this in a meaningful way for you.

    If her mother is enabling her to avoid needing work, I suppose that is a new issue, especially if her mother is really upset about supporting her.

    I am perhaps oversensitive because I tired of judgmental people. I don't go around passing out my medical history to people on business cards, so I'm pretty used to people assuming all kinds of things without knowing even a fraction of the story. Thats just the way it goes, but it has taught me that unless you know all facets of a situation, it's just a waste of energy.

    If she does just want to go to the gym, sit by the pool, and finish her degree, so what? If mom is supporting it, mom is supporting it, and presumably she will still have plenty of time to work for the next 20-30+ years. Maybe it isn't the wiser choice, or what you or most of us would choose, but it still sounds like this girl is working and doing constructive things, so I'm not really sure what the drama is. Whether or not mom should support it is a different issue.
     
  34. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Didn't have time to read any other posts yet, but...

    I still live by the motto: Things happen for a reason, so if it doesn't work out for one person, someone else will come along...quickly in this economy! I see it as she was given the opportunity, didn't want it. So be it. Another person got it, so all's good.

    I certainly am NOT judging the person who turned it down or think she's crazy or dumb for not taking it. Everyone does what's right for them. Some people don't hesitate to move in the middle of the school yr either, so that's their perogative.
     
  35. CaliforniaGold

    CaliforniaGold Rookie

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    You may have already asked yourself (didn't read all the posts) why does this bother me so much? It is hard to stand back and examine other peoples lives/decisions objectively. Although you may not have meant it, you sound a bit envious of the daughter. Or your parenting style is different than your friend's, and thus bothers you.

    I think the daughter enjoys school and is happy with her decision.

    your post was
     
  36. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I think it's hard to sit by and see people we love making what we see as a mistake.

    I know, everyone is entitled to their own mistakes. But that mommy in me wants to cry out "WAIT!!! You're not thinking this through! You're making a bad decision!!!"

    I don't of course. But every once in a while, I need to say to someone-- "Is it me??" Obviously I can't say it to the person I see as making the error... in case it IS me.

    So I ask friends. If too many agreed that someone I loved was making a poor choice, perhaps I would say something, perhaps not.

    That's how I see this thread-- as an "Is it me??" type of thread. I don't read jealosy or judment into it. Just concern from someone who is afraid the daughter of a good friend is making a mistake, (particularly in an area where the info on the job market is often misleading) and that the good friend is enabling it.

    I would want my friends to say something to me.
     
  37. CaliforniaGold

    CaliforniaGold Rookie

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    I posted mid-sentence. Ooops lol. Let me finish:

    Your post was thought provoking because many of us have different takes on it.
     
  38. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    I guess my take on the whole matter is that I'm not living their life so I really can't comment on the daughter's decision.
    ...but the mother should be glad that she has such a good friend to confide in.
     
  39. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Don't know your medical condition or your situation. But this seems to have hit a chord with you. My friend was distraught because she tried to talk her daughter into taking the position knowing that in this economy that jobs are not a dime a dozen especially where she lives. When a friend calls me distraught, I like to give constructive advice and try to point out how the other person might feel. Mom feels a little used. So, that is my concern. Not the daughter... or her decision.... but my friend. Can you understand that friendship means a lot to me?
     
  40. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Ha Ha. Go back and read the posts. My friend was not happy about the decision. Thanks for your input though.
     
  41. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Awww thanks. I talked to her today. She is feeling more like herself. She is now telling me that God will work things out. And that is the best advice anyone could give. I agreed with her. In the end, things will work out. Hopefully, my friend is not footing the bill. But, like some other posters mentioned, if she chose to help out in this way... that was ultimately her decision. BTW- Her daughter is a beautiful young lady that just 3 years ago my friend almost had a break down because of empty nest syndrome. (Seriously had to have counseling) So, you see how things can change in a short amount of time.
     

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