Concerns about inclusion class in placement school

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by SF_Giants66, Sep 13, 2014.

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  1. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    Sep 15, 2014

    To add an update, I've just completed an assignment in my learning diversity course and the textbook gave some answers to my questions about how they determine the curriculum needed for a group of learners who need accommodations in that sometimes they separate a small group of learners and write a curriculum based on their needs.

    I believe that might be what many of you were trying to say. I'll make it a point to count the exact number of students next time, because it seemed as there were quite a bit there and I was kind of shocked that there were that many 8th grade students that needed assistance with 4th and 5th grade math problems. When I did some tutoring, I worked with some sixth grade students that didn't have multiplication tables memorized, and I thought that was bad enough, but didn't think but with a few exceptions that it would really get much worse than that unless a student wasn't able to be passed to the next grade.
     
  2. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    I'm not good enough at Trigonometry for engineering. I also don't really feel like taking another 2 years to get just a bachelor's in math for a mathematics career.

    My desire does involve working with youth. I was the most requested camp counselor this past summer week with our group, and find my patience and tolerance level is much higher with kids than it is adults. My psychological therapy is not even addressing how to deal with children as far as my career goes. It is addressing managing conflicts with co-workers and parents.
     
  3. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    FYI...please don't use those terms when discussing students with your colleagues :dizzy:

    I'm even a little offended...and I don't usually react to comments on an internet forum.
     
  4. GemStone

    GemStone Habitué

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    There are children with disabilities. They are in every public school. By the time they hit middle school, yes, many of them are several years behind their chronological grade level, often because their disabilities will not allow them to progress quickly or past a certain point.

    If you saw a person with an obvious disability, would their limitations shock you? If a blind person had to use Braille and will never read with his eyes, if a deaf person doesn't hear you say hello, if someone in a wheelchair doesn't stand and run that marathon... will you refuse to believe such things can exist?

    There are invisible, devastating disabilities that profoundly impact our students. In fact, 13% of students are receiving special education services. In a middle school with 800 students, for example, 104 of them will have IEPS. So a class filled with them can easily occur. These classes are to their benefit as they are taught at their pace and at their level of knowledge.
     
  5. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    The one thing that confuses me is the use of the term "inclusion." Our inclusions courses must be at least 50% students without IEPs. Also, there will be an inclusion specialist in the room, either a para or teacher. The other students in the class are usually low students who had difficulty passing standardized tests. Also, inclusion classes are taught using grade-level standards, with modifications as indicated in the IEPs. We have classes like the classes described, and they are important and valuable and necessary, but they are not called "inclusion" classes. This message board has made me realize how different the inclusion model looks in different districts.
     
  6. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    You have to realize that we have no way of knowing how many of the students in question have IEP's, some may have 504's, and some may be functioning at the lowest levels. That may explain inclusion.
     
  7. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Oh, definitely! Just, in general, I had no idea before posting here how varied special services are from district to district and even school to school.
     
  8. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    It would probably be fascinating to look through the IEPs, but you might not have the clearance at this point. It would probably be eye-opening in either direction.
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    How do school ratings work in your district/state? In mine, course grades don't really matter, so it wouldn't really matter that students were placed in an "easy" class. What matters is performance on the state tests. If students don't perform well on that, and this includes students with IEPs, then our school gets dinged. It is definitely in our best interest to challenge our students with special needs and help them achieve. I doubt your district/state is all that much different in that regard.

    I think that you are making a lot of assumptions here, possibly projecting some of your own feelings onto this class and this teacher, and potentially damaging the reputation of this teacher and this school without any real merit.

    Talk to the teacher. Ask her why she is doing what she is doing with this class. Ask to see the IEPs. I'm not sure if you'll be allowed to see them, but you can still ask. Stop assuming that you know what is happening here.
     
  10. greendream

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    It sounds to me like you're using outrageous stereotypes about people from the south to jump to ridiculous conclusions.
     
  11. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Again, SF_Giants66, I hope you take the opportunity today to talk to your CT about the pacing and the content of the class. I'm sure that you'll find the answers to many, if not all, of your questions.
     
  12. heatherberm

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    I would agree with what many other people have already said. The only way you're likely to get real answers to your questions and concerns is by (tactfully) speaking with the teacher who you're working with. She's going to be able to explain why these kids are in this particular classroom and why they're working on what they're working on in what way much better than any of us are going to be able to. She has much more information than you or us.

    It does sound a little bit like you're just taken aback by how far below level some students are which is fair - I had that experience too when I first started working as an aide. But all the more reason for you to ask questions, observe, and work with these kids. You're there to learn so take advantage of the opportunity. Better to do some of that now when you have guidance from an experienced teacher than later when you are the teacher.
     
  13. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    I'm teaching an 8th grade lesson on exponents on Thursday because she allowed me to switch class periods. I already told the science teacher I'm with that I have no intention of teaching any lessons because I've been through my science methods in addition to 5 science courses in college and I'm just not comfortable teaching science.


    The math teacher is fine with me switching periods, because I just don't think she needs my help in the inclusion class. They aren't really learning anything new when we are there. They are just drilling the same material.
     
  14. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    A serious question, no slight intended - you're not teaching science lesson because you have done the science methods and have science classes, but just not comfortable with science? I am assuming that this is all in a middle school or junior high setting.
     
  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't understand why you won't be teaching the science lessons. If you aren't comfortable, then this would be a great opportunity to become more comfortable. Since you've already been through your science methods class, you should have no problem.

    I also think that you need to keep in mind that your field experience is not meant for you to help the teacher but for you to gain valuable experience. I am concerned that you aren't getting out of this experience what you should be.
     
  16. bros

    bros Phenom

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    It reminded me of something you might read in the journal of a 19th century physician.

    Seems a bit bizarre. Why would the college place them there if they didn't want them to, you know, teach science?
     
  17. SF_Giants66

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    Math and science are my concentration areas of certification. I already decided last semester that the only way I was gonna teach science was if I couldn't find a job teaching math in the whole one hour drive radius. The topics are just too open ended and I'm not good at teaching science. I told the teacher if we got to cells and heredity I'd teach, but they aren't doing that until the 3rd quarter. For math I can teach any middle school topic.
     
  18. SF_Giants66

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    The only science I would be comfortable teaching in middle school is forces and motion, and science involving mathematical equations. I took the methods course, but I just couldn't grasp how to teach science with confidence and plan lessons. I didn't do well on creating an inquiry lesson for the final exam of that course, and in struggled on much of the work and only got a B.
     
  19. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    So I assume that you're not going to put science on your license at all, correct?
     
  20. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    I'm trying to find a very polite way to put this, because when I was in college a cooperating teacher told me this, but not in a nice way at all. Please be careful of how you are talking about yourself and your role in the classroom in front of teachers at the school. My CT pulled me aside one day and told me that the other teachers at the school thought that I was full of myself and didn't seem willing to learn. They said I acted like I already knew everything. It is possible that this is happening, and teachers do talk to each other and the principal about these things. You should be collecting as many letters of recommendation as you can while in college, and I did not get as many as I could have at that school because of my perceived attitude. Just please, be humble, ask questions, do what you are told, and learn as much as you can. Take the feedback and grow! I wish someone would have told me these things sooner in my practicum experiences.
     
  21. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Does your university and cooperating school really allow student teachers to announce what they will and won't be teaching?
     
  22. SF_Giants66

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    I'm going to have to talk to my college about this. The program requires two subjects, but you don't need to be certified to get the degree. If I can just get math, then that may be all I'm interested in. I would think it was a bit of a waste to not get a certification after all those classes, but I really don't want to teach science anyhow.


    I know this seems weird, but I actually was good at my college sciences but did horrible in the majority of my k-12 science classes. I found the college classes actually taught interesting science.
     
  23. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    Believe it or not, yes to a certain extent. We were told we just need to turn in 3 evaluation reports and it doesn't matter what they are. Our professor actually told us if we give a bad lesson, throw the forms away and pretend it never happened and teach a new one to replace it.
     
  24. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    I'm afraid, SF_Giants66, that you may be burning a good many bridges.
     
  25. SF_Giants66

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    For teaching math instead of science?
     
  26. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    I think my only question is this - are you going to have enough credits in math to qualify for K-12 subject content certification? That would be, in NJ and most states, 30 credits of math with at least 12 of the credits in the junior/senior level courses. Math courses with pedagogy included would not count for content area in most states. In most states, if you don't have those 30 hours, you are relegated to elementary and middle school. In NJ, you must pass the elementary education certification to be able to take the middle school certification. For middle school, you only need 15 credits in math, no particular order, but still no pedagogy included. There is nothing wrong with being JUST a math teacher as long as you have the credentials and credits to back it up. This is, of course, assuming that you like working with high school students, since that is where a high percentage of the jobs will be. You seem to be painting yourself into a corner, but maybe the corner with math is where you really want to be.
     
  27. SF_Giants66

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    18 credit hours are required. I have those, plus college algebra and two lower level community college courses. I will only be certified in grades 5-8 math, as well as science if I take and pass the praxis 2. I have 19 science hours.
     
  28. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    For dictating what you will and will not teach as a student teacher.
     
  29. SF_Giants66

    SF_Giants66 Cohort

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    I don't have any problem teaching her inclusion class if I was clear on what they were learning. Their calendar seems to be filled with remedial tasks being practiced and drilled over and over. I don't know exactly what the lesson would be. All they have done is practiced problems the teacher wrote up on the board.
     
  30. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Not sure where you are, but to teach MS here, you also have to be certified in Elem. Ed. Honestly, from what you have shared, I would forget middle school and take the courses necessary to earn my K-12 Math Content Certification. No one will ask you to teach science, then, unless you decide down the road that it might fit you. At this point, you are definitely NOT giving the impression that MS science is even remotely where you want to be. You would need 12 upper level credits in math, and maybe you would be happier about the students you would teach, maybe not. I am guessing that you would be looking at some calculus and maybe some trig or other math courses. At the very least, you would have a wider base to choose jobs from, and not feel that you need to teach an endorsement you don't care for. Just a thought.
     
  31. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    How are you in a math program and not capable of teaching anything above middle school math? You're telling me you're unable to teach algebra, geometry, trig, or calculus? Have you even taken calculus?

    I just don't understand what kind of university program doesn't train math teachers in advanced subjects. It makes no sense to me. At all.
     
  32. SF_Giants66

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    .


    Most states actually do have a middle grades certification now. The Praxis 2 has tests for middle grades. If I wanted elementary, I'd have to take ELA and Social Studies teaching courses too.
     
  33. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    In NY, you can extend an elementary or secondary certification to include middle school (5-6, here), but it doesn't sound like the OP is working toward any kind of K-4 or 7-12 certification, so it makes me wonder.
     
  34. SF_Giants66

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    I can teach algebra if it is an 8th grade class for high school credit.

    I've taken Calculus 1 and 2.
     
  35. SF_Giants66

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    The college actually has a program specifically for middle school only. If I wanted to get grades 2-5 as well, I'd need dual certification.
     
  36. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

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    You are making your student teaching experience much more difficult than it needs to be. Show up, ask the CT what she wants you to teach, teach what she tells you, get an evaluation of your lesson. You are over thinking everything. You can save the world when you have your own class. Just do what you're supposed to do and be done with it. Maybe it's just me but your posts make me :dizzy:
     
  37. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

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    Yes we have MS certification, but you have to have elem. ed. in addition to that. So, Praxis for Elem. Ed.. then the MS Praxis exams. I should know - I have them all. I also have subject matter cert. in Biology as well as ESL. I am the a princess of Praxis exams, if not the queen! I'm currently working on SPED, so have been reading your thoughts and observing what wonderful advice and counsel you have been given. I don't think that you are well suited for MS, but mayber HS. MS is a volitile time and the kids are all over the place. You appear to like things consistent and in line with your opinion of how things should be. HS would come closer to that ideal in your head. As I said, I have been following the thread, and I don't see you as a happy camper, but maybe you can change. Certainly many things have that capability - science teacher, can't help it.
     
  38. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    That's it, though? No real analysis? Linear algebra? Complex variables? Non-Euclidean geometry or topology? Abstract algebra? Number theory? Differential equations? Nothing?
     
  39. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    And...have you asked the teacher about the content and pacing of the class or did you just write it off as not worth your time? Why could you not teach some of the remedial work?
     
  40. SF_Giants66

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    Honestly, some of my classmates didn't even take Calculus 1, but stopped at pre calculus.
     
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