Complaint-Teachers who use incorrect grammar

Discussion in 'General Education Archives' started by GardenDove, May 16, 2007.

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  1. AuburnTeach

    AuburnTeach Companion

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    May 20, 2007

    Here are two that drive me insane:

    *Using 'then' instead of 'than' Reading is more fun then math.

    *'Try and' instead of 'try to' I'll try and get my lesson plans done before Friday.

    For some reason it irks me more when I see it in print (especially in a newspaper or magazine) than when I hear it spoken.
     
  2. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    May 20, 2007

    Same here. I guess I am not as picky as most people. I don't like the "I ain't got no money no where" stuff or the "where ya at?" and I don't like it when people mispronounce words.

    As far as getting jobs, I agree that good grammar is important. As far as who my friends are, I would never not want to meet someone or think less of them just because they talk funny or have bad grammar.

    The love of my life can't spell a lick, my engineer brother can't type an email with correct punctuation if his life depended on it, my dad says "near dat crick down there" was a WWII top gunner and has a genius IQ, I say "yous guys" and even "ain't" sometimes and I'm a great mom, friend, and wife and I've saved two lives.

    I'm not that naive where I think people don't judge, I just think we need to keep things in perspective.
     
  3. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    Ha Ha- this reminds me of the time our servers at my old company were causing problems on and off and weren't reliable for at least a day. The VP of Technology sent out a companywide email where he apologized for his incontinence problem but that he was working hard to correct it! How embarassing!!

    Or the time I received an email that said "When you get a free moment, can you please po*p in my office?"

    I popped in but that was it.

    Lemonhead
     
  4. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    May 20, 2007

    Those are hysterical! What did he mean instead of incontinence?
     
  5. lemonhead

    lemonhead Aficionado

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    We figure it was inconsistent or that he was trying to type constant and just messed it up a lot. It was hysterical and was sent to over 800 people!
     
  6. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    May 20, 2007

    [​IMG]

    I have told my students for over 25 years that I do not want them to be the kind of adult who would approve the order for a sign like this, or, worse, the kind of adult who would not understand why it's so tragically hilarious that this sign represented a community and its big country club for so long.

    The worst of all might be the mayor's secretary who insisted that the sign was correct because her spell checker told her so.
     
  7. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    May 20, 2007

    Perhaps coarse described the golf course?
    This is the thread that will not die.
    Someone shoot it.
     
  8. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 20, 2007

    OK you be the scribe and I'll be the speaker:D .
     
  9. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Lucky it is a short drive:D
     
  10. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Of 'coarse' it wont die
    :D
     
  11. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    May 20, 2007

    PLEASE!!!!!!:p
     
  12. kinderkids

    kinderkids Virtuoso

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    Hey Dave, we posted at the same time. So which will it be? Shot or continued????:D
     
  13. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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  14. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 20, 2007

    I can see it now:
    A Sexual harassment suit
    for the lack of spell check and proofreading.
    Story on page 3
     
  15. GardenDove

    GardenDove Habitué

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    May 20, 2007

    Hi guys, I see we're back on the subject of grammar.
     
  16. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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  17. Tigers

    Tigers Habitué

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    May 21, 2007

    I can understand someone believing a person to be less educated. However, that we feel we can justly judge a persons intelligence and social background by their written or spoken grammar alone is simply rediculous.

    Having the ability to communicate well is a vital skill. Just remember part of communication is listening.

    an' jus' 'cause peeps be holla'n like dis, don't mean dey don't hear what you be spittin'

    I think that it is equally important for people to learn to accept and understand communication with grammatical errors as it is to be able to write and speak without grammatical errors.

    Since we have made a habit out of using extreme examples of language rifled with grammatical errors, let me say this....if you spend your life correcting how people say things, you will never hear what things the people have to say.

    I have known many adults with little to no education; I, also, have known many people different countries who spoke broken english. Sure they may have used bad grammar but they had some of the most delightful things to say.

    I truly hope everyone here is at least aware of their biases. Because, there is no one thing that makes a person. And, I will set you straight grammar definitely does not make a person.
     
  18. Tigers

    Tigers Habitué

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    May 21, 2007

    Some young guy, not yet at the bow of his life, once said, "judge not, lest ye be judged."

    Believing there is only one correct way to speak is systemically discriminatory.

    The purpose of communication is to communicate. This is why in spoken english so many of the grammatical rules are broken.

    On this site we have the capability of asking for clarification, requesting elaboration. In contracts, in grants, and in formal papers, there is no possibility of this. Thus, in documents such as these, wording and grammar needs to be precise.

    Sure, with better grammar and wording one can more efficiently communicate their points. However, all of us have made mistakes on this website. Should we all be deemed less intelligent for this? No.

    Here, content is more important than structure. So, whether it takes someone 500 posts or just one to communicate their feelings or ideas is not really that important. Rather, what is important is that they communicate these ideas and feelings.
     
  19. JaimeMarie

    JaimeMarie Moderator

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    May 21, 2007

    That isn't the case here (we have no African Americans in our community). I have four out of 10 students that are always saying Ax instead of Asked.
     
  20. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    May 21, 2007

    I have spent the last 30 minutes reading what I missed since last Friday. I'm glad to see that the thread is back on track. I must say that I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

    In a forum like this, I'm not concerned with grammatical errors. I do correct student speech if it does not draw attention to them.
     
  21. Miss W

    Miss W Phenom

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    May 21, 2007

    Last year, one student began to say "hanitizer" instead of "hand sanitizer". Of course, it caught on with the rest of the class. It was very hard to keep a straight face and correct each student. By the end of the year I gave up the fight.
     
  22. GardenDove

    GardenDove Habitué

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    I like that word, it sounds like it could be a winner!
     
  23. DarkLikePoe

    DarkLikePoe Rookie

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    May 21, 2007

    Here, here! I'm glad it was said.

    In keeping with the thread topic, I'll add that I have repeatedly explained that there are no "wrong" ways to speak. "There are only more appropriate ones." Students seem to understand this.

    In the case of the "hanitizer" (which is not that surprising, actually) that word might actually stick, given that it is close enough to "hand" and "sanitizer" that one could arguably walk into a store, and after enough repetition, be pointed to the personal hygiene aisle. It's scary to think about, but that's what happens with common-use processes. How many times have we heard someone use "Google" as a verb? Sure, we can "correct" it by explaining that "Google is a noun, not a verb, so don't use it as such," but with what do we replace it? "Instead of 'Google it,' say 'Run it through an Internet search engine.'" That's inefficient. In this case, the incorrect grammar is less cumbersome than the correct, and therefore an arguably better means of communication. Language evolution is about simplification, and if it's easier to reference "hand sanitizer" as "hanitizer," since we rarely even use "sanitize" in any other common context, it might just happen that way!

    In fact, the only way I could get my SDAIE English 9th graders to understand the concept of "scanning for information" was to suggest that they "google" the page for terms and ideas they needed to find. By using "bad" grammar, I was able to communicate a new idea with them.

    I guess all I'm suggesting is that when we are communicating with students, we should be doing it as efficiently as possible. I'm not implying that we ought not to help them acknowledge the differences between their language(s) and what is considered acceptable, but we shouldn't be such hardliners that we alienate them from the only people who are in a position to help them overcome the social injustice of de facto linguistic discrimination: ourselves.
     
  24. ChristyF

    ChristyF Moderator

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    May 21, 2007

    I know this thread got a little side tracked with the colloquiasms, but the basis is still that there are areas that people (teachers, students, parents, doctors, etc) all should speak in an appropriate way. Yes, there are a million and one ways to speak English. If I'm on the phone with a friend I speak one way, but if I'm presenting at a conference I speak a little more properly. Think of a job interview. Mr. A walks in wearing a nice suit and answers questions. One of those questions is if he has ever used Excel. His answer is, "No, I've never used it." Mr. B comes in with the same suit on and his answer is, "No, I ain't never used that." Two different ways to speak, but there's no way that Mr. B would be hired based solely on that interview. Our kids tend to write the way they speak. In most grades (here anyway) they are all tested and as part of that state test they have to write an essay. How can I expect them to use proper grammar in the essay if they aren't using them in speech? On the same hand, how can I ask my kids to use proper grammar if I don't? That's my issue with the whole thing. Yes, I'm from the South. Yes, I have a drawl. No, I don't think I should have to lose that because it makes me look less intelligent. I should, though, follow simple grammar rules.
     
  25. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 21, 2007

    POST OF THE YEAR!
     
  26. Irishdave

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    Well Said.
     
  27. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I thought you were talking about Sean Hannity. From Fox's Hannity & Colmes.
     
  28. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    Love "hanitizer" -- it's Frindle!
     
  29. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Sounds like a classic Lewis Carroll portmanteau word along the lines of chortle (= chuckle + snort). I think it's a keeper.
     
  30. jd123

    jd123 Cohort

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    May 21, 2007

    We do say we're going to google something, the same way we say we're going to microwave a hot dog. Someone had mentioned the microwave example earlier. We fax information, we journal our thoughts. Words change their function. Language evolves. I think it's exciting to be a part of this change.
     
  31. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    True. And it also remains important to understand where "Google" is appropriate as a verb and where it isn't.
     
  32. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I can't remember who but a Newspaper editor wanted his reporters to stop using the word "very" ie. "it was a very Hot day", to do this he told his reporters to use the word Dam* ie. "it was a dam* hot day", the proofreaders would omit the curse word.

    Interesting side: a comedian pointed out that a vulgar word, Yes that one, can be used as all parts of speech. Thank God Lenny Bruce was not related to Daniel Webster.
     
  33. kabd54

    kabd54 Cohort

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    So, being the dutiful reader that I am, I clicked on shirt and began to laugh out loud when I read the following:

    "If we have to read "for all intensive purposes" one more **** time, we won't be responsible for our actions."

    There are so many errors, so little time....
     
  34. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    May 23, 2007

    Whether we like to admit it or not, people ARE judged according to their ability to communicate well. We expect certain 'classes' to speak properly. Would we put as much faith and trust in a brain surgeon who talked like Jethro Bodine? I wouldn't. Yes, we make mistakes in judgement, because there are intelligent people who use terrible grammar, but for the most part, our guesses are probably pretty spot-on. In movies, and novels, and in real life, those who speak well are usually the bosses and the masters of the house and the chairmen and the educated, while those whose grammar makes our eyes water are usually the servants and the underlings and those who need to be told what to do.

    That is because educated people tend to use proper grammar and uneducated or undereducated people don't. And most of the time, all they have to do is open their mouths for us to know which is which.

    Many a student has learned proper grammar only after leaving home and going to college. This doesn't mean the grammar used at home was "WRONG," but it certainly may have been nonstandard. And a person who only knows how to use nonstandard grammar ain't gonna climb as high, nor should he/she. Educated people have more than one grammar, and they know when to use one or the other.

    I don't want my dentist to use poor grammar. It negates the trust I simply must have in her. I don't want a rheumatologist who can't pronounce the big words and can't put together a compound/complex sentence properly. Proper grammar is an outward sign of intelligence and education. Yes, there are smart people who talk like hilljacks. If they were REALLY smart, they'd learn to speak properly. It's not all that difficult.
     
  35. Commartsy

    Commartsy Companion

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    I have a very healthy respect for differences in dialect. I think the differences in our speech patterns sound gorgeous. I'm not sure it's a good idea to base a judgement of intellect on someone's speaking style. I know too many brilliant hillbillies, I guess. :D My judgement call comes when someone writes. I can't stand stray, unnecessary, or absent apostrophes, for example.

    Now, I do emphasize to my students that they need to tailor their speaking and writing to their audience. The judgement calls that people make are an excellent reason to take care with your speaking and writing.

    Sometimes it's harder to speak using correct grammar, because you don't take as much time to think about it as you do your writing, and you might have been raised by said brilliant hillbillies. :eek: (My big slip-up is using "done" instead of "finished". I have tried and tried to break this habit, but it hasn't happened yet.) I have always been much always harder to please in the writing department. I mean, if you're going to take the time to write, you should put some thought into it!

    I also give my own children a good teasing when they slip at home, often earning me something along the lines of, "Gees, Mom, it's the weekend!"
     
  36. Commartsy

    Commartsy Companion

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    You are the coolest, like, ever! You have written some of the most interesting things on this post! I may become a Teachergroupie groupie!
     
  37. Tigers

    Tigers Habitué

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    Again some of the most intelligent, smartest, and wisest statements come from the mouths of people who do not use perfect grammar.

    And, some people open their mouths to loose a honeyed speech perfect in almost every aspect. The only problem with their speech, or writing is thier content.

    I would rather read through a grammatically incorrect post that brought forth an original thought than a grammatically correct post that did nothing more than string together words.
     
  38. Tigers

    Tigers Habitué

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    education does not equal intelligence
     
  39. Tigers

    Tigers Habitué

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    What is the purpose of communication?

    I had originally thought that the purpose was to communicate.

    If someone is communicating some feeling or idea successfully, does it really matter if they do not use correct grammar
     
  40. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    May 23, 2007

    Why are we still beating this dead horse? Haven't we said the same things over and over again? Go to the idiom thread and say something funny, please. :)
    P.S. Don't yell at me!
     
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