Community supplies- ok in my classroom, NOT OK with my own child, please help me with

I had K-mart brand crayons in 1980. Yes, they were not cool! But guess what! I still have those crayons, in good used condition, in their original box, because my parents taught me how to be responsible. If it wasn't for my dial up internet connection, I'd submit a photo of them. How come we don't all pull our resources so I can have high speed internet all the way out here in my rural area?

I drive a car with a salvaged title. How come we don't all throw in our money and everyone gets a Lexus?

I'm sorry, I know these are just children, but life is like that. I'm not mean, I'm not selfish. I live on a farm and bust my butt everyday. I never ask for what I did not earn.

Maybe I could throw in my barn boots and pick some Italian leather pumps out from the community shoe bucket...

 

Life is hard.

Some families have sets of encyclopedias and computers and two cars, and some kids have their own rooms and their own tv's. Some children's mommies bring them Happy Meals for lunch, and some kids' mommies don't. Some kids have Twinkies in their lunch box, and some kids don't. Some kids are wearing designer jeans, and some kids aren't. Where do we draw the line? It is NOT our job to "equalize" the world as far as possessions go. Some kids have money.

And some kids don't. That's the way it is.

You don't take a person's property away from him/her and give it to someone else, no matter how needy that person might be. You provide for the needy person some other way.

And if one child has Hello Kitty pencils and another child has plain gold pencils. . . that's how it goes sometimes.

What's next, visiting households and making people share their DVD's and socks with people who don't have any?

I'd like to have a penny for every Hello Kitty pencil and pair of socks I bought for needy kids in my public school years. But never in a million zillion years would I have required that a child give up his/hers so I could hand it over to another child.

There are many things I'd like to have that I can't afford. I do not, however, require the world to supply me with them, and the fact that other people DO have them doesn't make my self esteem plummet.

Private property.

 

Nothing at all. How did tenure come up? I don't see how that is related.

 

Right here.

 

Do I glean a hint of distain in your post?

I still stand behind what I said Any 2nd year teacher just has not had the time to try out the many many "ways" of the supply issue.

 

I have community supplies! However, they are supplied by the school. The supplies that the kids bring in stay in thier pencil cases and off to the side. They are to be used during speical times and for certian projects (when I say so). My reason for this is:
A: There is no room in the desks for pencil cases
B: It takes FOREVER to have a class of kids get pencil cases, get supplies out and get to work!

Personally, I hate the supplies that kids bring from home. There is always a parent who sends in too much of something (43 glue sticks for one kid) or someone who does not send in at all. THis is why I have community ---supplied by me!

As far as your child is concerned, I would not make an issue out of it just yet. Let your daughter get to school and form her own ideas about it. Maybe, just mabye she won't mind.
If it is an issue for your child, then consider brining it up. You don't want to be the parent that comes knocking on the door the first day of school. As teachers, we all cringe at the first parent to speak up in September!

 

You Devil you
In the middle school I see $90 sports shoes, Clothes even my Wife can't afford, and the kids have more money in their pocket than I do and I teach is a 96% free lunch school! as far as I am concerned they can buy their own.

playing devil's advocate here too

 

You go girl ​

 

Well said
I want to sing ! Everybody sing

God bless America, land that I love
Stand beside her and guide her
Through the night with the light from above
From the mountains To the prairies,
To the ocean white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home​

All singing by this poster is from the heart even if the posts are not

 

ahh Amanda why do you have to be so sensible?​

 

http://weeklyscheiss.blogspot.com/2007/03/hands-off-my-pencils-or-youll-be-sorry.html

 

You are a wordsmith Mamacita​

 

Amanda you have to agree that public education is very socialistic, not that it is a bad thing. Childhood is steeped in socialism.
Just as many Americans today think that the USA is a democracy, the USA is a Republic.
It is a hard transformation from Socialism to Republicanism which is required by today's students going from kindergarten to the world of work.
If it was easy the Russians would have done it years ago.
As for classroom management style I like Dictatorship.
BTW Amanda had I every had a daughter her name was going to be Amanda

 

I really don't believe that community sharing in Kindergarten is why older students and adults have "issues" with personal responsibility. There is a lot of responsibility being learned while students are negotiating who gets what, what to do when someone is missing the red crayon, what happens when someone takes too long with something... I agree with Amanda that it is more of a classroom management situation. ESPECIALLY in the primary grades! And I have never had a Kindergarten student complain about "plain" pencils or the wrong color of crayons available for an art project. (Now a pencil with no eraser is a whole other story....!)

Neither is it necessarily an issue of "haves" and "have nots." In my opinion at least, public schools should provide basic supplies for school in the first place...but they usually don't or can't. So I see nothing wrong with trying to keep things "basic" when possible. Even though my school requires uniforms (limited colors and styles), it is still not difficult to see the socio-economic differences among children. It does not make me feel good to see kids already struggling to fit in, being reminded over and over that they are a "have not." My teaching partners and I supply all the basic supplies for students with our annual $200 classroom allotment, along with personal funds throughout the year if necessary; we do ask parents to contribute things such as tissues, film (for end-of-year projects), hand sanitizer, etc. And that is voluntary. No pressure...no one knows who does or does not. Maybe that is our little contribution to keeping Kindergartners one year away from comparing their personal possessions.

 

Perhaps, Amanda, but if some of you realized what kind of behaviors might be encouraged when kids know they don't have to be responsible for bringing their own pencils and paper to class year after year, some of you might change your minds and require your students to be responsible for such things. Middle school and high school and (sigh) COLLEGE instructors would certainly appreciate it. Not to mention employers.

Sitting in on scholarship committees, I have seen applicants show up for their interview without a pen, and REACH OVER AND HELP THEMSELVES to pens on the director's desk. Why not? Some of them know no other way of life in a school setting.

I understand that the elementary mindset and the secondary mindset are two very, very, very different things, but we have all had experience with both in our own lives or with our children's lives.

Nobody is going to back down. I might have mentioned that before, ten or so times.

You aren't, and I'm not. But if some of you would look ahead a little, it might help us all.

 

Looking ahead is something we always do in primary grades, but for 5-year-olds, it's usually enough to think to first or second grade! I think "developmental" training is more than just what a student's growth rate and intelligence is; it is also the way we need to consider teaching children how to live. Not all at once....but developmentally. I would certainly hope that as my Kinders move ahead in school, each grade level is requiring more and more responsibility! That's how it worked with my own kids, both at home and in school!

 

Actually last year, my school had the parents pay $30 per child and we teachers ordered and shopped during the big back to school sales. I just had to submit the receipts and get reimbursed. My school did this for the past 4 years with no problem. All the students in one class had the same pencils, the same everything!!! It was wonderful and the parents, for the most part, enjoyed the stress free aspect of it. THEN the district financial person found out about it and put a stop to it!!!

So, this year will be our first with students bringing in their own supplies. Our team asked for specific types of pencils (ticonderoga) and markers. The supply list states that items will be pooled for community use. The parents know this before school starts. I am debating on what to let the kids keep and what to pool. (if at all!!!)
We did order some things like glue sticks and erasers that arent' available at the local stores.

So for me it all boils down to ..... if I don't pool the supplies, and first graders take too long getting supplies out of their individual boxes (I live in a pretty prosperous area so have nots are rare) .... then what do they keep at their desks and how?? I have tables that have desk like cubbies in them.

 

There will (unfortunately) always be people who are incapable of managing themselves no matter what their circumstances might be. I just think every little thing we can do to make people independent and organized is a step in the right direction.

I have never blamed elementary teachers when a handful of secondary students couldn't/wouldn't/didn't/whatever do something in my classes; I always assumed that if even SOME of them could/knew/understood, then "it" was definitely taught "down below." At a certain level, the only party responsible for learning is the student. Some will, some won't, and some can't. I also figure that a student who can't even remember to bring a pencil and a piece of paper and counts on swiping someone else's on a regular basis is probably a poor student with bad organizational/coping skills. At the middle school level, the other students laughed and eventually most of "those" kids caught on. At the high school level, the few who still felt entitled soon learned otherwise via the state credit system, ie no more free rides based on charm. At the college level there are no excuses and there is no slack. They do or they don't, and if they don't, they fail. I do not want a D student removing my child's appendix. Or even a C student, for that matter.

In kindergarten, we were 'trusted' with certain things, and I can remember being honored by that trust and I would not have broken it for anything on this earth. We were 'trusted' with counting chalk; we were 'trusted' with ringing the bell for things; we were 'trusted' with making sure all the blocks were put back; we were 'trusted' with playing the correct three notes on the big piano to signal 'getting ready to go home' time. I can remember her voice to this day: "We're all trusting Mary to tell us when it's time to get up from our naps today." Etc.

In the middle of the year, we all brought our supplies to school. "I'm trusting each of you to take good care of your crayons; if you are careless, you'll have to go without." Wow, I felt so grown up.

Things are different in K now, as it's more academic than second grade was back then. All the more reason to 'trust' the children. . . . Little kids are full of surprises, and if we 'trust' them to take care of something and make it clear that there are no replacements, they'll do it. We did. If a child has to go without a red crayon because he/she broke or lost his/hers, so be it. If things are too easily replaced, things are not cherished and cared for.

 

Just how far do we look ahead
and how far do we look behind?
Are there things we teach in the early grades that may be needed to be un-learned. As we in the middle grades need to teach things that are needed in the HS etc.

Years ago during the cooperative learning kick some misguided lower grade teachers allowed students to cheat! and called it cooperative learning. Now I have middle schoolers who cheat (more Per capita that the normal class)


Research shows that students learn better through cooperative learning.

 

One more time: nobody here is backing down, not even a quarter of an inch, including me. So, no more on this thread from me. Carry on.

 

People keep saying that community supplies are to make it "easier for the teacher" etc. While this is true, we need to consider time on task. Every minute the class waits for Billy or whoever to find his lost blue marker is minutes out of class time. These are minutes no one is engaged, no one is learning. Teachers are to keep as much time on task as possible. So less time wasted searching for supplies is more time for students to learn.

I am not saying that students have to share supplies, or that this is the best way to go. I am simply mentioning this because no one else has.

As for the OP I wonder if bringing this issue up might make your child stand out in the class. What will the other students think if your child is the only one not sharing supplies? I just know when I was in school kids got tormented for less.

If, I were to do community supplies, (I don't currently have a classroom yet, working on the whole finding a job thing.) I would make sure every child brought the same brand of anything to be shared. I have also seen community supplies done someone differently. Rather then mixing everything together things still have students names on them. And they are just kept together out of the students desks for ease. And since well, some students just can't deal with having all their supplies so easy to get to.

One of the classes I worked with, a third grade class, had a bin that was kept with all the students supply boxes, and this was available for someone to grab when needed. Pencils and things that would always be needed where kept in desks. I thought this method kept desks a lot neater. When I student taught kids crayons were all over the inside of their desks, and I had glue leaking everywhere. Personally I don't think liquid glue should ever be kept in a desk on its side. That is just asking for problems.

 

I use community supplies in my classroom and love it. I totally disagree that it doesn't teach responsibility. However,I am so much more interested in developing a sense of family and community in my classroom and sharing supplies is one way to do that. My students sit at tables and each day, clean out the bucket on their table and make sure it is good for the next day. They take pride in how organized they are. They also have a cubby where their books and math tool kits and book boxes are kept and are responsible for keeping those neat and organized. I have never had a parent object to my system. If you feel SO strongly, perhaps you could ask the teacher if your chold, only, could keep her supplies separate. I think that will make her uncomfortable and not feel like she belongs in her class.

 

I'm in a Resource Room and my students are "supposed" to bring their pencil cases with them when they come. For most, though, organization is a real issue and they arrive without. I then have an option--send them back to their homeroom for it (and lose at least 5 minutes of work time) or have supplies in the class for them. I have bins on a shelf with pencils (often rescued from the halls after the caretakers sweep at night), erasers, pencil crayons, markers, rulers, etc. It works best for my students and my program.

 

Just do both. Supply minimal for the community pot and supply the best for your child.
Think of it this way:
We at atoz teacher stuff are a community where we share things (lesson plans, ideas of classroom management, advice, etc, etc) what if we didn't share our expertise in certain areas and just kept to ourselves. We would get nowhere. We share to become better at our jobs. (we share at school so kids would learn what it means to not be selfish,self-less). You can teach responsibilty when sharing too...show the students how to take pride in things that are being shared..show the kids the right way to handle something.
just my

 

I know this seams to be a hot topic. I have not read all the posts, but wanted to add my

Can you get some stuff on sale for the community list and keep your special stuff in a backpack or box, letting the teacher know you'd like her to use those, because of the germ issue.:unsure: (ok, I'm not sure if that will fly)

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. Transitions also take way too much time out of the day as it is and they can derail very easily over the smallest thing. I think it can be done the other way and I do agree with some issues like sanitation, but each teacher has to decide what they are going to be ultra strict or have tight management on and elementary teachers can't pick every battle to win or every lesson about life to teach. That's a spiraling job. A little more gets taught each year in these areas until they are expected to take on the full responsibility of being a responsble and good citizen. I learned after Kinder to not supply "hello kitty" type supplies for my kids except at home. I'm okay with that. It's not as fun, but it is okay. I think teachers have to do what's right for her whole classroom and for herself. Now for the sissors, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't let one pair of lefties be a separate pair only for her. It only makes sense. Also we talk a lot about ownership, etc (lots of homeowners don't respect thier stuff either) but what about sharing and learning to get along. At this age, there would be a lot of, "that's mine" to solve. No bickering. Just pick up the item and use it. For me, it would not be my battle to want to pick any other method.

 

My school supplies the pencils for my class and most of the looseleaf as well as the folders. My supply list for parents is short and specific, 24 count crayons, bottle of glue (not larger than 8 oz and onlyplain white glue), large box of tissues, package of paper towels, and a pencil box. That's it. In my letter home I am clear that the glue will be put in a drawer and I seldom give them time to dig out "their" bottle. It's glue. I also tell them that the school has supplied plain yellow pencils, if they choose for their child to have special pencils, that's fine, but the child is expected to keep up with them and I'm not settling arguments over who has who's pencil. My biggest problem is parents who don't pay attention. I am clear that I do not want children bringing their own scissors, rulers, color pencils, or markers because I have all of those. Each year I still have a child who gets mom to buy the fancy shmancy markers and then mom pitches a hissy fit when I won't let them stay at school. Or they buy 48 or 64 count crayons (I make the child count out the colors in the 24 count box and the rest goes home. My kids learn responsibility in my room in dozens of ways. Let us not forget, though, that feeling of entitlement 99.9 times out of 100 comes from home. The idea of community or not community is an individual choice and I see benefits of both sides. In fact I have both sides in my room. Some things are communal, some are individual. Actually I think students learn more responsibility by knowing they have to take care of every marker, color pencil, ruler, etc that they use, not just taking care of their personal items. I've had several higher level teachers comment on the fact that all we elementary teachers do is teach kids that they have all the time for coloring and playing. I've also heard many elementary level teachers comment that upper level teachers keep their rooms bland and uninspiring. I never realized what a rift there was between the two levels.

 

Ponypal,
I'm wondering if your stance on using community supplies in YOUR classroom has changed after this situation with your daughter? If it's not good enough for her, why is it good enough for your class? Just a thought.

 

I look at this from a completely different perspective - to me it is not about how well the class runs - it is about who owns the supplies.
Different parents buy different quality supplies - some choose to get the fancy stuff and thats their choice.
It is not my choice to take away their supplies and then let them take pot luck from comminity supplies. They bought it, it belongs to them.


Incidentally - our Principal recently reminded us that we are not supposed to do community supplies for that very reason. (I think she was passing that on from the district or the education department.)


At the beginning of the year I collect up extra pencils, glue, sharpeners etc and put them in a box for when they need them. They are labelled with names so I can hand out the correct ruler etc when they need it.

Having said that - I really wish parent would label their child's supplies!!!!!!!!!. (I did have to spend some time making sure all were labelled correctly)

 

Pony--you have crayons from 1980? WOW!!! And I thought I was sentimental!!

I never realized how hot this topic is. I never really even thought about it before to be honest. I just always thought that we do whatever we are most comfortable with. I always teach responsibility through homework, taking care of borrowed books, etc. I teach responsibility with the community supplies by teaching that they are there for everyone and they are not allowed to tear the paper off the crayons, chew the pencils, etc. To me , it is the same as taking care of public places that we all share.

It is very interesting to read the different thoughts on it. I really believe it is more of a grade level thing for me. In K-1, I would definitely think community would be better--just for easing those transitions. In 2 up, it is time for them to take care of their own. With that said though, I would try to honor a parents request as much as possible, as long as it wasn't disruptive to the class. With the lefties, I put masking tape around the handles, so that all the kiddos know those are for lefties and it has never been an issue.

Good Luck Pony and let us know how it turns out. I certainly see your point about having to deal with parents in your class room and feeling that you are giving in to them. It is hard for other teachers to also see us as parents at times.

 

Again, it's not a question of sharing. It's not about the amount of money spent. It's the issue of responsibility. I didn't make this issue up to just to complain. It's a very impotant issue that I have been dealing with for some time. I just want the support of her teacher in this matter.

I "had it out" with my daughter several times this summer when it came to taking care of horse tack, putting it away, or leaving it in the barn where something could chew on it. If your reins are chewed in half , you will not be riding your horse unless you have your own $38.00 to replace them. I have told her that no matter how big or small something is, YOU take care of it. When something belongs to YOU, YOU are the one who is responsible for that item. There will be no excuses, or someone else to look to for blame. There is no excess bucket in our barn where extra money or tack is kept.

Another area was her bedroom. I finally threatened to lock the door. When she said "It's my room." I told her that in order for her to keep it, I needed for her to show respect for her things in that room. I helped her organize it and I repeated the value of caring for things that belong to YOU.

That is why I originally posted, because I want MY daughter to follow through from the beginning to end, taking care of herself.

IN MY OWN CLASSROOM, IF IT TAKES ALL DAY TO TEACH PROPER PERSONAL MANAGEMENT OF INDIVIDUAL MATERIALS, THEN I WILL DO IT. It's a skill that you use FOREVER, why not learn it from the beginning?

Yes, I know it's hard to sometimes teach a skill, (such as responsibility), but it's more valuable to teach the lifelong skill instilling the importance of it.

There are many children that I see each year that lack self help skills, because their parents have not let them be individually responsible. I have done better, I have worked with my child to show concrete examples of HOW to do a quality job, and WHY, and what the CONSEQUENCES are when you do not a quality job.

 

My students bring, or are supposed to bring, most of their own supplies, but of course, I always have lots extra...especially pencils and erasers because face it...in lower elementary I think they eat pencils for lunch. When kids do bring in their own stuff I do take the time to write their names on it. I give each child their own little tray (the long thin ones) that I get 3/$1 at Family Dollar. They can keep their pencils and erasers in there. I set my students up in groups of 4 with an extra desk on the end. I have a plastic storage bin and they all put their other items in there...crayons, colored pencils, glue sticks, and scissors. Yes, they are their own, but easier to find and not cluttering up the desk either. If you teach children organization and stress it from day one, they can do it. As for when we "lose" pencils or time due to sharpening, I have a "trade in" bucket. The students are supposed to take the time to sharpen their own pencils in the morning, but if they break, they just go get a new one out (I sharpen them all at the end of the day/week, whatever's needed) of the bucket and leave the old one. We'll sharpen it later. But as a teacher, I don't mind supplying things for children. That's me. I know their parents are supposed to take responsibility and I do politely remind those that don't bring them right away, but I don't mind bringing in the extra. It's my job to take care of them, too, and I'll make sure they have SOMETHING. And even though I do teach in a very low SES school, I always have at least 1 parent who is willing to bring in extra or some volunteers!

 

If it were my child, and certainly she's not, I would have her deal with the community supplies. To me, all pencils are the same. I honestly don't get the good pencil vs. cheap pencil thing so maybe I don't understand the whole issue.

Could you keep the nice supplies at home for next year and for homework and purchase less expensive supplies for this year? There are still a lot of sales. I could see why you'd be annoyed to find out about the community supplies after you spent time and money selecting materials beforehand.

I didn't read all the posts, so maybe you have already talked to the teacher, but if I was going to suggest that you contact the teacher regarding your concern for germs and ask her if she can make sure your daughter uses the germX you provide her. If a parent complained about their child needing to use cheap supplies I would honestly think of them as snotty and the type that puts their child on a pedastal.

Maybe (hopefully) this teacher will run a better ship this year than last year. I don't know the story behind why you aren't happy for the teacher assignment so maybe it is about something else entirely. The first and second years of teaching are usually drastically different because the 2nd year teacher has experience on her side. I'll cross my fingers that everything works out for you and your daughter.

 

agdamity- I have used my classroom money to provide materials for my students. They will each get their own set of things to keep in a BOX that THEY provide. Scissors are a safety issue and are kept separate. I periodically check the boxes and make a big deal for children who have taken the responsibility to care for these provided materials. I don't say anything negative about the one's who don't.
Bottled glue is used very little so I keep it in a gallon size bottle. Glue sticks are provided by the parent and are kept in their box one at a time. I teach proper use of glue sticks on the first day of school. Some will abuse the stick and others, treat it like gold. This is where I cannot justify allowing everyone to dump their glue sticks together. You have to be responsible for something, not everything is going to be provided all the time.

So- community supplies that they share in my room are provided by the school: scissors, paper, bottled glue

I let the kids take home the "stuff" in their boxes at the end of the year. I don't keep it, even though the school has provided it.

 

I went to a school in a very poor area for grade school and middle school. My parents struggled to buy the supplies. What we had was ours...not our classmates. I was always hurt when a teacher took my supplies away and gave them to a classmate whoes parents were known drug dealers (yes I knew of drugs at a very early age). Those kids would usually distroy the supplies. Since my family was barely above poverty line we became responsible for the whole class supplies. This is why I HATE community supplies.