Common Core--what's the big deal?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by AdamnJakesMommy, Jan 5, 2014.

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  1. AdamnJakesMommy

    AdamnJakesMommy Habitué

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    Every time I go to my in-laws house, my MIL's sister has to always start about the evils of common core. Today she lent me a dvd which was full of preposterous, outrageous things regarding common core and things like scanning irises, monitoring facial expression, and a whole bunch of nefarious ways of gathering data on kids. I don't agree with those things at all and question the veracity of this information. Very conspiracy sounding to me.

    But I tend to discredit this because they jump all over the standards and IMO, present misinformation on them. I love the majority of aspects regarding the standards, not everything--but most things. Like I love that I teach my students multiple methods in multiplication and division. Kids see multiply methods, pick the ones they like best, and guess what methods like box method (multiplication) and partial quotients (division) reach the low kids who are then able to correctly solve problems which they stumble all over long division and regrouping.

    They also bring up social studies and science, like they are a part of common core. But the standards for those subject do not derive from common core. ??

    But I must admit, my overall knowledge of common core is limited to just reading the standards. What is all of the hullabaloo about, and is there any merit to the objections against common core?
     
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  3. WindyCityGal606

    WindyCityGal606 Enthusiast

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    Ccss takes away the teaching of content and focuses on teaching students how to look for main idea/theme and supporting details in a text. At least that's what it does for reading, science, and S.S. In grades 5 and below.:(
     
  4. teacherman1

    teacherman1 Devotee

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    Here's a good place to start. *http://www.amazon.com/Children-Core...88961823&sr=8-1&keywords=children+of+the+core

    It's a book written by Kris Nielson (NC Teacher Says "I Quit"). Diane Ravitch's blog is another good source of information on what people do not like about CC. Of course, there are others who see some positives.....

    Like everything else, you have to get both sides and make your own decision. Good luck!:)

    Steve

    * The nice thing about the Amazon website is you can read some of the book before you buy. It's a great concept, 'cause I hate spending all that money on something I don't like...
     
  5. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    The biggest problems I have with CCSS are that teachers had no role in the actual development of them, and that it gives companies which already have too much power in education (PEARSON) even more power.

    Basically, if they were just standards, I wouldn't have a problem with them. Virginia is a non-CCSS state, but a look at the math and reading CCSS standards for third and fourth grade don't show anything I'd consider particularly outrageous. It's the fact that adopting them serves to even more deeply embed high-stakes testing, etc.
     
  6. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I don't mind them at all for high school English. They're very similar to our previous standards.
     
  7. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    As you research, definitely try to keep separate "common core the standards" and "common core the process." Regardless of how the standards were developed (which is up for attack for sure), they could still be good or bad.
     
  8. WindyCityGal606

    WindyCityGal606 Enthusiast

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    Ccss is geared to teach kids how to take high stakes tests... TEaching to the tests is alive and well with Ccss. We are beating a dead horse with ther edition of these awful standards in English language arts for my poor 4th graders!! They get it! Find the main idea....find supporting details...write a piece with a main idea and supporting details....sooooooo boring! No thinking required! Monkey work....
     
  9. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    And how CC is being implemented is going to be awful in many schools just as many good educational ideas have been significantly changed and overgeneralized by the time they reach the classroom.
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Common core didn't change much about the way we teach in my district. It's more of a floor for us...we generally teach beyond what's stipulated by CCCS. A few changes in math, a shift to more NF reading and writing in ELA.
     
  11. nstructor

    nstructor Cohort

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    Are you saying this as negative or positive?
     
  12. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    If you are asking me, I'd say I'm fairly positive.
     
  13. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    This is how it feels for us as well.
     
  14. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    What did it take away as for as teaching content goes?
     
  15. bison

    bison Habitué

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    I think the majority of the issues so far are with implementation and interpretation rather than the standards. Sometimes they are confused.
     
  16. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    The implementation and interpretation are largely being handled by the same people that wrote them in the first place though.
     
  17. ku_alum

    ku_alum Aficionado

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    But, doesn't content learning happen through those activities?
     
  18. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Well... yes... and no. Particularly in science, if all you do is "book work," the kids aren't really going to get it.
     
  19. ku_alum

    ku_alum Aficionado

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    Hm. But, I thought those were reading standards, not science standards? At the HS level, the standards call for a LOT of student collaboration. That is where the project-based type learning and teaching happens.
     
  20. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

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    In my state the standards shifted greatly! 5th graders are being asked to do things that previously were not taught until middle school. The students are struggling, and parent complain. However, most of what the students are struggling with is due to the implementation of the standards--they haven't had ccss from kindergarten up, so the standards assume they have more background knowledge than they do, and we don't have the time to fill in all the gaps sufficiently.
     
  21. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Can't the same be said for testing? That if all you do is "book work" or drill and kill, they really aren't going to score as well, because they really aren't going to get it?

    I guess I just don't understand why some teachers believe that doing hands on science, with hypothesis, predictions, write ups, questioning..etc does not directly lead to better thinking, reading, and testing. Everything that goes into hands on science, inquiry based..etc has a direct positive impact on language arts.
     
  22. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    1) I think you missed what I was responding to.
    2) I think you've confused what teachers want to do with what they are told they have to do. I've never met any teacher that WANTS to "teach to the test," but I've met tons of them that are ordered to do so by their administration or their districts.
     
  23. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I can quote teachers on this site that have said very directly that teaching to the test is how you get results. That they cannot do more "innovative" teaching because of the test results looming over their heads.

    Interesting how when teachers go into administration their views on teaching change and they impose teach to the test or did they not have another method of teaching when they taught....I wonder.

    I have met TONS of teachers that love teaching to the test. Most hide the term "teaching to the test" to I am "old fashioned".
     
  24. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I don't know what the hoopla is over, especially since this is only the first or second year most schools are implementing them. I also don't see any difference in the way teachers teach or the curriculum we use (at least not in my school) compared to before we began using the CCSS.

    The SS standards for 6-12 in literacy and writing are very vague and grouped by grade levels in high school. I mean painfully vague with few content specifics. The old Maryland state standards were very specific and detailed, which I enjoyed for planning purposes.
     
  25. bison

    bison Habitué

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    Um, what? I'm talking about individual districts and schools. I've worked in two districts over the past year and they each implement/interpret the standards VERY differently.
     
  26. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    If I know that the test is going to use a specific format, with specific language, and specific types of problems... well, if I want the best scores, it would make a certain amount of sense for me to spend more time doing those types of problems, with that type of language, in the testing format.

    Administrators care about test scores. They don't care about learning. They want whatever will produce the best test scores. And generally, the higher-ups in districts (ie: the ones purchasing curriculum) don't have much in the way of teaching experience/

    I also think you're mischaracterizing "old fashioned" teaching (which generally only seems to refer to math). I see being old-fashioned as spending more time on process fluency than most new teachers.
     
  27. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Many districts are relying on implementation materials from places like Pearson. Not coincidentally, those districts seem to be the ones that are dealing with the most push-back.
     
  28. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    By administrators you mean former teachers right?

    Or am I sheltered in a district where every principal is a former teacher? Every superintendent in our district has also been a former teacher.

    Do most superintendents across the nation have no teaching experience? Is the same true for principals?
     
  29. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    We can agree to disagree here. Do the students need to see the format, absolutely. Do you have to teach to the test to get the best results...nope.

    What you described here is the very definition of teaching to the test imo.
     
  30. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    I don't think there is any evidence that CCSS - the standards - promotes "teaching to the test" any more than any other set of academic standards/expectations. This is why I suggested separating our discussion of standards vs implementation.
     
  31. amakaye

    amakaye Enthusiast

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    Do you not still use your content standards for S.S. as well? That is how it works here. The content comes from those, and the CC literacy/writing standards are more about the process that is used for covering that material and/or what students do with that content knowledge.
     
  32. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Agreed. Teachers that believe teaching to the test gets the best test results will continue to teach to the test under any standards.
     
  33. WindyCityGal606

    WindyCityGal606 Enthusiast

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    K-5 uses ELA standards for science and social studies
     
  34. knitter63

    knitter63 Groupie

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    I was under the impression that CC would be "a mile deep and an inch wide" as opposed to "an inch deep and a mile wide". However, I am not experiencing this, especially in ELA. I am seeing more standards, especially in grammar (which is good), but in my district, we are taking away time from Science/SS in order to teach them. We are told that Science/SS should be imbedded in the ELA...which I DON'T like. As a kid, I LOVED science and social studies. To try to teach that through literature and non fiction does not work. My students are BORED. Bored equals more discipline. No matter how engaging or exciting I try to make it, I still have students who are bored.
     
  35. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I don't understand this view of science. Can you give me an example of what you want students doing during the majority of your science time that would not have a direct and positive impact on their language arts?

    What are people doing during science that is devoid of language arts?
     
  36. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    You absolutely can and should teach SS through literature and non-fiction texts. Basing SS on analysis and critical thinking instead of memorization of trivia is the best thing the CCSS has to offer.
     
  37. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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    I don't know any teacher's that believe teaching to the test gets the best results. I do know some admin that do and some board members. :dizzy:
     
  38. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Really?

    Over and over again people make posts about how standardized testing doeesn't allow them to do they type of teaching or activities that they want to do, that the test and the standards hold them back. They claim the pressure of preparing for a test makes them do different activities than they would want to do.

    Read several posts up, a poster makes the case for teaching to the test.

    Again, by administrators do you mean former teachers?
     
  39. ku_alum

    ku_alum Aficionado

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    We use the standards for reading/writing (literacy) across multiple content areas, but each content area (e.g. science) still has its own standards.
     
  40. donziejo

    donziejo Devotee

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  41. platypusok

    platypusok Companion

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    I agree. Common Core and state standards...it's all the same to me when it comes to the high school English standards.
     
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