Common Core State Standards

Discussion in 'General Education' started by mathmagic, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    To break off the other thread: I'll start with a more generic question, but leave it open for discussion --

    What do you like about the CCSS? What do you dislike about the CCSS? (Remember: we're referring to the standards, and not necessarily the curriculum that tries to align to that)
     
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  3. Ima Teacher

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    I like that we can see the progression from grade to grade, but I don’t like that they sometimes seem developmentally inappropriate. Pushing kids to harder material doesn’t do any good if they aren’t ready for it.

    Our standards change so often that we never really manage to get a group of kids who have been under the same set of standards their whole academic career.
     
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  4. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    See, and this is my biggest hope with CCSS - that they become ones that all states use and that there are only little tweaks made, but nothing big. Because then, we're all on the same page, a student at standard in one state doesn't magically become above or below standard in another state, and we can have better shared discussions at grade levels about where kids shoul dbe.

    I have a harder time speaking to the developmentally inappropriate, as I think that comes up more in primary than intermediate (though they're still a challenge), but I have heard that from many colleagues, too.
     
  5. Ima Teacher

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    I think it is an issue for primary, which leads to issues for higher levels. That basic foundation is somehow missing, and even though the kids are presented with more difficult material, they are not getting it.
     
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  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    I, too, like the progression of standards, as it allows for scaffolding in the classroom.

    It also is helpful to me as a teacher because I create diagnostics using questions modeled after standards students are expected to have learned and mastered.
     
  7. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Nearly half of the original 46 states that adopted CCSS were revising as of January 2017.
     
  8. Ms.Holyoke

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    I only know the math standards, but I love the Common Core. I find that the standards are more rigorous and push students to think critically and understand why certain processes make sense.

    I dislike how we do not have time to teach the standards the way that they are meant to be taught.
     
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  9. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    I want to say that I think I like the idea of common core, or the potential of common core. It's hard for me to say that I like common core as it currently stands. There's a lot of pros and cons to it as it is and for me they kind of make me uncomfortable. But I like where it could go, if we could get everyone on board with a single set of standards. Does that make any sense, because I feel like I'm rambling a little.
     
  10. Ima Teacher

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    Our state standards weren’t vastly different from common core standards, so when our new standards were released it wasn’t a huge adjustment.

    My biggest issue has been trying to fit informational reading, literary reading, language, writing, and speaking & listening into one 60 minute class. I have to make reading the primary focus because, no matter whether I like it or not, the state test drives instruction. It is reading, then writing, then everything else falls away.
     
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  11. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    Agreed - this is my favorite part of the idea in general. Math and literacy (less a very tiny bit in the overall way people talk in different regions) should be identical across the US.

    I think this is definitely an ongoing area of discrepancy -- some places will have more time, some will have less time (to address particular standards / total classroom time - i.e. not in specialist or recess or lunch, etc...), which drives me nuts :p
     
  12. Ima Teacher

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    I loved my 100 minute blocks. Now I’m at 60 minutes. I’ve had as little as 45.
     
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  13. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

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    I agree.

    They're a okay set of standards overall, but there are too many of them.

    It feels impossible to teach all standards to the point of where students are proficient. Sure, most teachers try, but there's a love of learning that's lost along the way as teachers try to fit it all in.
     
  14. otterpop

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    Same.

    It's not enough time. I've seen the CCSS drive instructionally and developmentally inappropriate decisions, such as taking away recess time, reducing lunch time, and not giving enough class time to the most critical subjects in early years. Schools purchase curriculum to meet the standards, then don't alot enough time to teach the curriculum as intended.
     
  15. otterpop

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    Where do you all see CCSS and all this related testing heading?

    I'm curious how long it will be around.

    Things change quickly in the education world usually, but I don't know whether the standards will follow that pattern.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  16. futuremathsprof

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    How many periods are there in day with 100-minute blocks?

    When I was in high school, I had block scheduling with four 90-minute classes each day and four different classes each semester. How does that work with the 100-minute blocks?
     
  17. futuremathsprof

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    I see a national set of standards coming into play. I would be nice if all states held students to the same standards, except the states would be left to implementing the standards.
     
  18. otterpop

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    Isn't this what's already in place? Or do you mean that states can't opt out?
     
  19. futuremathsprof

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    The latter.
     
  20. Ima Teacher

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    Reading and math were the only 100 minute classes. Social studies, science, and electives were 50. Kids had 6 or 7 classes.
     
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  21. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I share your concern for the developmentally appropriateness of the Common Core. Teachers and other educators should have been involved in writing it instead of testing companies. It needs revisions, especially in literacy.

    States should be able to modify it. A student in Alaska may have different needs than a student in New Jersey.

    The strong emphasis on non-fiction is designed to produce students ready for work, but fiction is the big farris wheel in the park that draws children to literacy.
     
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  22. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Phenom

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    Oh, this makes more sense than what I was thinking. Thank you!
     
  23. futuremathsprof

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    I agree Tyler. How do you think literacy can be improved upon outside of placing a greater emphasis on fiction books?
     
  24. Teacher234

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    I used the common core standards as a guide. I create most of my educational materials/worksheets for almost all subject areas. My students need modified lessons. The students do learn standard-based, but it is somewhat indirect.
     
  25. Ms.Holyoke

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    I was talking to another math teacher about this today and she said that a lot of our kids come into 6th grade not knowing the traditional algorithms for long division and multiplication. She says that she often has to teach it to the kids...which makes me a little nervous!

    I think there needs to be more communication between elementary and secondary teachers. I love that kids are coming in knowing other methods, but one of my standards is multiplying and dividing decimals. Partial quotients does not work well for decimals, so the kids eventually need to learn the standard algorithm.
     
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  26. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    I'm not going to lie, I'm grown and can't do long division. I'm sure I learned it at some point in my youth but dern if I remember it. I tried to do it the other day and was completely in over my head.
     
  27. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Connoisseur

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    LOL...I kind of feel the same way. I had to review the steps too. I honestly don't love the algorithm but I can't think of another way to teach kids to divide decimals.
     
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  28. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    Which I suppose it's a good thing I don't teach math!
     
  29. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    DK's fine book Help Your Kids With Math is a grand resource and may be relatively cheap at your local Costco in honor of back-to-school season. (The other books in the Help Your Kids With series are also very good, and excellent choices for parents who complain that that's not how they learned whatever.)
     
  30. miss-m

    miss-m Devotee

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    I love this aspect of common core. The problem i have with it is that, as others mentioned, often the push for critical thinking is developmentally inappropriate. My 1st graders, who are still preoperational and very concrete in their thinking, can be rigor-ed into understanding that 5+1=1+5 no matter how much I try because it is too abstract for many of them. Even the concept of symbols for numbers is still very difficult at 6 years old; I have kids who haven’t mastered one to one correspondence yet, let alone how to decompose numbers to ten.
     
  31. Ms.Holyoke

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    I just graded my kids' pretests and I'm a little bit shocked. None of them know long division (but most of them do know partial quotients). A lot of them can't divide at all? and some of them don't know the multiplication algorithm. Looking at the 6th grade standards, I'm kind of surprised that kids are just expected to learn the standard algorithm for division AND decimal division.
    I wish they had been exposed to it earlier. I think I'm supposed to teach all of this in 3 days which is not going to happen!
     
  32. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    I should look into that! I could use a refresher. I tried to do something the other day on one of the kid's homework and I found myself turning it upside down left and right. ...and it was dang on science stuff!!
     
  33. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    If teachers are teaching to the standards, and students are at standard, they should have mastered the multiplication algorithm in 5th grade and will master the division algorithm in 6th grade (though likely introduced to it before along with other strategies for both the aforementioned algorithms). Note that this is per the CCSS.
     
  34. Ms.Holyoke

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    Right, but in 6th grade they also have to divide decimals. It seems like too much in a short amount of time. It seems like the majority of my kids haven't seen the division algorithm before. I will probably spend a lot of time on this.

    My school tracks and I generally have the lower-level kids. The majority are not at standard.
     
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  35. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    So what do you do when you need to?
     
  36. Aces

    Aces Habitué

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    I cheat as much as humanly possible.
     
  37. Ms.Holyoke

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    I haven't divided by hand in a while. I usually just use a calculator. That's why it's taking me a long time to plan out my long division unit as it's been so long since I've actually had to do it!

    I know a lot of high school math teachers use long division for polynomial division. Personally I prefer using area models for polynomial division (I think the elementary kids call it the box method?) because it makes so much more intuitive sense.
     
  38. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    ‘Long division’ is a skill you should know, IMO. I’m always a bit surprised by the general acceptance of not being good at relatively simple maths.
     
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  39. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Maven

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    I am always surprised at how many coworkers openly talk about how terrible they are with math. I know I teach English, but I’m good at math, too. Sometimes it takes me a bit to remember how to do things I don’t use often, but I can do it.
     
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  40. futuremathsprof

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    I know, right? When I hear people brag about not being good at math (not anyone in this forum of course), I think it’s equivalent to them bragging about not knowing how to read. Seriously.

    I’m not expecting people to do advanced partial differential equations or complex analysis or number theory, but why has arithmetic become this huge hurdle for people? It’s an elementary concept for good reason...
     
  41. Ms.Holyoke

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    I'm on the fence about the algorithm. I do find that other methods like partial quotients and the box method help students see division more conceptually. Obviously when students learn decimals, the algorithm is the best way to solve the problems relating to decimals. However, a lot of high school teachers use long division to teach polynomial division as well, when I think that the box method does a great job with this instead. I just find it really hard to teach the algorithm for long division as more than a procedure, especially for struggling kids and when we have limited time. This is why I also want kids to focus on whether their answer names sense and is reasonable.

    I never said that I was "bad" at long division. I just said that even as a math major, I have rarely needed to use it after high school.
     
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