Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by zboss, Jun 13, 2019.
Jun 20, 2019
Your tone. Your little digs and accusations and stereotypes.
I'm not the one trying to force religion on school children. And anyone who thinks Jesus was christian is the one with serious issues.
No one does. Every one knows his ethnicity. Deity is, of course, a cultural/religious view.
Your issue is the screaming it out like you have been gifted supreme knowledge. Oh, how special you are.
It's called studying. You should try it some time. You might be intrigued about the thousands of christian faiths around the world that aren't even on, as religious folks like to say, one accord.
Wow, now you are just getting mean. Stop with the insulting...on Christians and on anyone who posts.
Why are you only quoting part of my post?
The user said I thought I was special, which was an insult in the way she used it, but then again that just conveniently missed your eyes.
You stop already. We get it. You don't want God and do not want anyone else to know God either. Your hate towards the holy spirit is really unfortunate. Your comments are insensitive and uncalled for. This thread went the other way fast. It is now pointless.
Jun 21, 2019
Erm? I don't generally worship on the Sabbath? So I mean we just kinda hang out?? I mean they can go to church with him if they choose to do so by otherwise I'm usually home. And really I'm full of crap? That's so nice of you. Yes I married one. He wasn't a bishop at the time. But I mean I'm not going to justify anything to you so I mean if that's what you're hoping for.
It is force feeding them IMO but that's still your choice. I won't say you're wrong for it, and I won't say I'm right for how I feel about it because those are your kids and my opinion doesn't really matter. If that's how you want to do handle it, so be it. But who is ashamed of their faith? There's a difference between educating and force feeding.
I think you mentioned elsewhere but I can't find the post why I brought my own religion into it. Because I know as a pagan, I would have been singled out immediately in that environment even as an adult. If we had had this entire conversation either not knowing my faith or assuming that I was Christian how different would it have been?
But more over, as my favorite history professor would say "if you believe in the practice, you don't question it". Which is why I say op is here made this whole thread because they were uncomfortable with what they saw. They're questioning it. Because if it was just "kids trying to educate the unfaithful" they wouldn't have mentioned it.
Whizkid, I'm a little surprised they're still engaging with you, frankly. You complain earlier about a non sequitur but bringing up the ethnicity/divinity of Jesus is a gigantic one.
Like you, I'm not fond of religious schools. And I do know that illegal proselytizing happens regularly in public schools (when lawsuits happen, it's because the situation was extreme enough, to people who weren't receptive and who didn't fear repercussions. Saying religious proselytizing is rare is a bit like saying sexual harassment of women in the workplace was rare prior to the mid-1980's).
Your approach here, though, does nothing positive.
Conversion attempts in schools happen, and when they do, the topic of he'll usually comes up. So, when it does, is it bullying? Maybe an analogy can show why some would consider it so, regardless of the presentation.
Suppose a kid comes up to another kid and says, "if you don't believe I'm a nice person, Snuffleupagus is going to beat you up after school." Let's say that the kid saying this really believes this to be the case, isn't gloating over the idea of their classmate getting beaten up, and that the one they're saying it to doesn't believe in Snuffleupagus or that their classmate is a nice person.
Essentially, it remains a third-party threat. That Christianity has incorporated such a threat into their official beliefs doesn't change what it is. Keep in mind also that the target her probably can't just suddenly believe that their classmate is a nice person any more than I could suddenly decide to believe I can fly.
In a sense,I agree that the students aren't bullying -- because it's Christianity itself that's doing it.
Now, there's plenty of good things that Christianity says as well -- love your neighbors, forgive your enemies, etc. In my experience, those come up far less frequently in conversion attempts.
I know we are terribly off-topic here, but now I'm curious because I could have sworn married men couldn't have become bishops. I also know next-to-nothing about Catholicism. Is this is a different church than maybe the ones I'm thinking of? I promise I'm not doubting you, just eager to learn something new.
I will admit you could become right here. My view does come from my experience, where it just doesn't happen. However, I also live in an area where a lot of the mainstream Christian churches aren't a particular majority.
I only hear about the cases where a teacher or school administration got involved, and those seem pretty rare. I full-on believe and agree teachers and administration and the like should not be proselyting.
So what is the data on illegal from-school-leaders proselyting?
The one thing that it might be is that the spouse isn't Roman Catholic, but a different type of Catholic. Some examples are Greek Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and I believe Byzantine. As a Roman Catholic myself, I know only a little bit about other Catholic faiths so the exact titles of these religions might be a bit different. I do know that some of the other Catholic religions allow for priests and bishops to be married.
Catholic bishops can't get married. So this leads me to believe you're full of crap not only about this, but probably about everything you post.
I have attended a Roman Catholic mass once, and often hear about a Catholic upbringing in the Philippines. Other than that, my Catholic friends and associates have never exactly delved deep for me.
I will admit I was incorrect he's not a bishop but some sort of leader within the church. Yes I asked. No I don't really care what the title is they're all the same to me. But I did ask I was mistaken. My apologies.
He's apparently not a bishop my apologies. I genuinely thought he was but.
There are a lot of titles.
Your hate towards Krishna, Zeus, Poseidon, Vishnu, Allah and all the other thousands of gods, none of which can actually be proven, is really unfortunate.
Again, there is no place in education for it outside of a historical perspective and how it shaped beliefs/laws/societies. That's it!
All borrowed from previous traditions and beliefs. Christianity does not have a monopoly on morals or a god for that matter. I'm not saying that you're suggesting this, this is simply a point I'm making.
Jun 26, 2019
You know, there's not a lot of hard data on it.
But consider for a moment what the high-profile cases are, and the response to them. There's rarely any serious repercussions, and the school usually backs the teacher. A few years back, a social studies teacher in NJ was telling his students that evolution was false and non Christian students were going to H, and the school first tried to claim the student was lying, then tried to discipline the student because he had taped it. It's unknown if the teacher received any punishment, but he continued to work at the school for years.
This year, a school in Alabama had been contacted by the FFRF because they're holding prayers over the school intercom in the morning. The school is refusing to abandon the practice. And it's gone on for years.
Since much less could constitute a violation, I'm sure there's a lot occurring that simply isn't reported, especially since a lot of parents may not want to face repercussions from the community, a lot of parents and teachers won't be sure of what constitutes a violation and what doesn't, and some of the time the parents may be happy with the illegal proselytizing. If 75% of parents' response to harassment were happiness that the teacher was taking an interest in their child, how many headlines did you think we'd see, and do you think harassment would decrease or increase?
We used to have a teacher who gave bible verses to a former principal to read over the intercom every morning. Now in meetings we love discussing rules and regulations except those have pose an "inconvenience".
We also had a guest speaker who told some students that there are three tenets to success and the first is accepting Jesus. Well, first off, the principal is supposed have a script of what the speaker will say, second the principal was supposed to immediately address the issue right on the spot with the speaker. Must have been a while since she had taken school law.
This is legal as long as it's not during instructional time which it was.
Tell them that harassment can make people turn away from God.
Jun 27, 2019
With all due respect, it still sounds like speculation. Do you think the vast majority of Christian teachers and administration are proselyting?
That being said, I'm a firm believer in keeping these things separate. By all means, let issues be tackled.
Jun 28, 2019
I was raised Catholic and have never heard of a married bishop.
From Wiki: The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Catholic Churches, while allowing married men to be ordained, do not allow clerical marriage after ordination. Their parish priests are most often married, but must marry before becoming ordained as priests—although they can get married while still attending the seminary. However, married priests in these Churches cannot be further ordained as bishops.
Jul 2, 2019
No I think a minority of Christian teachers engage in it. But it doesn't have to be a majority to be fairly prevalent. A majority of students probably don't engage in bullying and harassment, but that doesn't mean there's a school in the country where it doesn't happen.
When things like reading bible verses over the loudspeaker, coaches baptizing students are a team practice, and inviting guests in who tell students they need to accept Jesus go unchallenged for years and then when they are challenged, the school fights it rather than recognizing the law? I don't think it's very speculative to say that there are lesser violations that are never caught.
I've seen a teacher tell her students to join hands so they could pray, another places bible verses on her exams, but of course, the principals are probably of the same faith so they say nothing.
Jul 7, 2019
This is basically spam -- the link leads to a particularly annoying ad website (the kind where they push you to wait, and wait, and wait through a video before telling you what it is), and it's posted by a new user and has nothing to do with the topic of the post. That said, I *am* a pretty strong proponent of parents teaching their children to read (and basic calculations, for that matter), having done it myself.
Yeah he's "reporting" it by tagging the mods. We don't have a report button.
"Tagging" the mods to report is fine. Quoting the problematic language is itself problematic; next time, please just mention post #xxx (use the post number in the lower right corner of the post, next to "Like"). I'll delete the quotation.
Jul 9, 2019
Okay, but... I see "report" at the bottom of every post (next to the time); does that not work?
Some people don't have that button but if you have it, it should work.
Separate names with a comma.