Career Advancement

Discussion in 'General Education' started by whizkid, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    But it's unlikely that all else would be equal.

    We've had this discussion on here before. Each person values different things to different degrees. I work where I do in part because I make more than I would anywhere in my home state, but I still don't make a ton of money. I make enough to live comfortably (albeit frugally). I could work in a place that paid more, but maybe I'd have to deal with more traffic or higher housing prices or more helicopter parents or less autonomy in the classroom or whatever other thing. There is always a trade-off, and some people are perfectly happy to trade a higher salary for some other more desirable benefit.
     
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  2. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    If you read the post before mine, then you would see that I was addressing the other user’s comment about how more experienced teachers leave for the better paying districts.

    And if two districts are in the same town, then it is reasonable to assume that the housing prices are roughly the same as well as the general cost of living. Now, there are exceptions to this, but it is still a safe assumption here. That’s why I said all else being equal.

    You may be satisfied with your salary, but the fact of the matter is that most people aspire to get jobs with higher salaries and will relocate when more lucrative opportunities are presented. That’s just a fact of life.
     
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    "And will relocate"? I'm going to need to see some stats on this. If it were true that most people will relocate for higher salaries, why are there any teachers at all in places like NC?
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Oh, not always true. If one district is considerably out performing the other, the houses in the better performing district will be much higher. Ohio had this problem in many areas. Same bedrooms/baths and similar sq footage would be much more expensive in the "better" district.
     
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  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    A previous quote of mine a few posts ago:

    “Now, there are exceptions to this, but it is still a safe assumption here. That’s why I said all else being equal.”
     
  6. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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  7. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Apr 12, 2018

    You can add so many caveats to a situation that it no longer represents reality. The reality is, housing usually is different in price compared to different districts if the districts are not equal in quality and most districts are not the same in an area which is why you have better sections of town and worse sections of town.

    In just about any area if you look at housing prices you can tell what district and sometimes what school a house is assigned. Now, things have changed a bit in areas that allow students to choose schools more freely.

    So, I don't believe it is a safe assumption. It is irrelevant that you put the caveat on your assertion because your caveat in my opinion is inaccurate.
     
  8. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    This is a sad and ongoing problem. To quote Dr. Suess, “We go stars on thars.”. Too many Sneetches
    This is the norm rather than the exception here in IL. To quote Dr. Suess, "You can't teach a Sneetch." One district gets a certain percentage of the pie, and they purchase the top of the line technology, have the largest gyms, and biggest playgrounds. Then the parents and kids start walking around saying, "We got stars upon thars." Well, everybody and their great-grand children rush over, spending weekends with family to use their district address and enroll. Soon herds of people are moving over there, and the teachers get overwhelmed, and the principal leaves. He/she doesn't wasn't their name tied to this mess. When the 'good' principal and 'good' kids leave, the teachers follow. The teachers are not equipped to handle behavior problems and low-performing students. They've been spoiled with their precious gems, and have little patience for 'city kids'. Because these children come in with below-grade level scores, the school immediately drops their scores. The teachers become frustrated, the kids wreck the school building, and nobody tries to really help them. All of the sudden, the best school becomes the worst school overnight.

    School funding is outrageously unequal. Instead of trying for the 'better' district, we should be lobbying for better funding for all schools.
     
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  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    The reason I retyped my quote is because you said the exact same thing I just got through saying, as if you didn’t even read it. To demonstrate, I essentially said toward the end of my original post, “Not all, obviously, since there are exceptions” and then you basically responded with, “You know, this is not always true because there are exceptions.”

    ???
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    No, I think you need to try again.

    These sources say that young people frequently change jobs, but people over age 32 change jobs far less often. According to what you posted, only 23-39% of job-changers do so because they are unhappy with their compensation. 23-39% is a far cry from "most" people. Besides that, nothing I read supports your earlier claim that "most" people are willing to relocate.
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    And you are correct that housing prices differ from district to district. That is not in contention. My point is that, within the same town, housing prices are very roughly the same for many homes. That’s why we use the median home price when we talk about home prices. It goes without saying, I am talking about the middle 50% of homes because the McMansions and projects are certainly going to skew the average.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  12. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    https://www.google.com/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/19/millennials-arent-job-hopping-any-faster-than-generation-x-did/?amp=1

    http://blog.indeed.com/2017/06/29/trends-job-tenure/

    For the Indeed link, look at the number one reason for job hopping.
     
  13. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Also, I will concede that “most” is not appropriate here. I should have said most millennials since that is my generation. Generation Xers do job hopping to a lesser extent, but not far from millennials. I am discounting Baby Boomers because they are exiting the workforce in the thousands every day and since they are retiring it makes no sense to consider them in the equation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    But job hopping is not the same as relocating.
     
  16. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Also, if you read through the Indeed article, it shows the percentage of people who change companies is 41.4% for career advancement and 41.2% for compensation. It says show me the money, which agrees with what I said earlier.
     
  17. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Right, but this stat doesn't match the ones you posted earlier.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    In any case, I think it's fair to say that the majority of people (at least 60%, perhaps as much as 70-80%) are not leaving careers for better pay.

    It's abundantly clear that pay, to you, is the most important factor when it comes to employment, and that's totally okay. But it isn't the only factor, nor would it appear that it is the most important factor for the majority of people. I don't know why you continue to insist that everyone's prime directive is money money money when your own sources are saying that's not true.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    This is fair. Money is not the only thing that matters and my beliefs are no more important than anyone else’s.

    I’m saying that money is a big consideration for many people, though. That’s what teachers are protesting about — more money. That’s why quite a number of teachers get advanced degrees and take additional coursework because it gives them salary increases. To say otherwise would be disengenuous and inaccurate. If money is not an important factor, at least in part, then teachers, for example, would not complain about how little they make and about lack of school funding as much as they do. It does matter, at least to some degree. Can you at least admit that? Why else would they do these things if more money wasn’t a motivating factor?
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I agree that money is a big consideration. Where I take issue is your assertion that most people will relocate in order to earn more money. In my experience, there's a lot more to it than that. I think that most people would consider relocating in order to earn more money, but it often stops there. Relocation, from what I've seen and experienced myself, seems to be more appealing when there are few or no jobs in a person's current location--not necessarily when there are jobs that happen to be low-paying.

    For myself, I would have stayed in my home state forever if there had been a job for me, even one that didn't pay very well. As it was, there were like 6 jobs in my content area (unfortunately, that number is pretty much literal) and none of them were available when I was beginning the job search. People in my home state tend to stay in their jobs for the long haul, and people in my content area (it's a very specialized area) tend to stay in their jobs for the long haul, so the probability of an opening in my home state was slim to nil. In the decade plus since then, there has been exactly one opening in my home state in my content area, due to a retirement.

    Nearly every teacher I work with is a transplant from out of state. Every one of them moved here because there were jobs here, not because it pays well.

    Desires and demands for pay raises, I think, stem from a different issue. People want to stay where they are, or they cannot move, and so they want to make their financial situations better. If it were always as easy as packing up and moving somewhere else for a higher salary, there wouldn't be any protests or negotiations or anything like that.

    I'll add that most of these protests right now are about things in addition to teacher salary. Teachers are asking for more money for schools and students, for equipment and textbooks and furniture and programs. Those requests aren't being made because teachers are money-grubbers; they're being made because many schools and school materials are in dire need of repair and updating. Teachers know this better than anyone, so they're demanding it.

    So, in summation, I can generally get behind what you've said here in the post I quoted, with some additional thoughts attached.
     
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  21. ChildWhisperer

    ChildWhisperer Groupie

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    "People don't leave jobs, they leave managers"
     
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  22. Elisabet Esteva

    Elisabet Esteva Rookie

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    27k salary isnt bad i would stick with it
     
  23. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    A very thorough and informative explanation. Well put!
     
  24. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    “Good managers manage work; bad managers manage people. Many a manager has ruined a good employee. Like bad relationships, we may be seeking or avoiding previous drama. Fear of rejection leads to fights and flight. Money and location are not the only motivations to moving.

    Happiness is not a job, it comes from within. If you are content in your state of mind, nothing else matters. What works for you in your current state, and the state you’re in may not cut it for me.

    Life is a temporary assignment. We are all subs, waiting for the next call. You may be perfectly happy until your supt. or manager leaves, and everything changes. One day, a week, a year or even 10 years can end before we know it. We can still uproot ourselves, and grow somewhere else.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  25. ChildWhisperer

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    That's very little. You can make more than that working at a daycare. I made almost 29k at a daycare in 2012-2013
     
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  26. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    .
     
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  27. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Agreed. 27k is nothing, practically. That’s what I make a year tutoring part-time only working 8-10 hours a week... :eek:

    Furthermore, it’s not much higher than poverty level in my home state — minimum wage earners here currently earn $21,120/year in California...
     
  28. futuremathsprof

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    Yes, work in NY. It’s way better than Arizona and teachers have way more perks there, like being paid a liveable wage. A reading specialist job sounds perfect for you! And an admin in the making, to boot. You’ll be making six figures in no time, haha!
     
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  29. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    I have no desire to be a principal, but I am working on my admin cert, which I will need to have a central office type of position. At the same time, I would mind working as a professor. To be honest, that is not something I would have thought would have ever interested me. Even last year I didn't want to get my admin cert, but apparently, I will need it to keep my current position.
     
  30. futuremathsprof

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    I keep hearing this phrase “central office type of position” and I have no idea what it means. Could you elaborate, please?
     
  31. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    District staff that are responsible for day to day management of all the schools.
     
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  32. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    .
     
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  33. ready2learn

    ready2learn Comrade

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    I think teachers being shocked about what they do have is true school to school even in the same state. I know there is a level of perspective I have having taught in a different school that many teachers I work with who have spent their whole career in one location don't have.
     
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  34. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    .
     
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  35. ChildWhisperer

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    Yes! I started working in my hometown, where I had lived my entire life & moved back to after college, so when I moved 2.5 hours south, it was a like a big culture shock. Kids that were considered average in my hometown were considered "genius" level at my new job.
    I still remember setting up the room with my new assistant and I pointed out a puzzle that I thought were for babies. And she gave me a weird look and said I could do what I wanted with it. So I put it away .. After the first day of school, I brought it back out :rolleyes:
    I had one boy who I thought was at the level he was supposed to be, but all my coworkers kept saying how smart he was and how he'd be valedictorian and he's probably a genius. I told them all no, that he'd be your average 4-year-old up north.
    I feel like I have to teach 1st Grade here to get to the level of Pre-K at my old school(s)
     
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  36. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

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    .
     
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  37. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Thank you!
     
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  38. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    You are welcomed futuremathsprof,

    A typical school district may include 3-20 schools. Elementary schools are totally separate from high schools districts. Sometimes, a preschool/State Pre-K/Preschool For All program may be included in the elementary school. These preschool teachers have all the rights, privileges and benefits that other faculty enjoy. Also, the preschool program may be a stand alone building, or LOL :rolleyes: housed in the central office. Of course, they are supervised by the Early Childhood Coordinator.

    You make have 3 or 4 primary - K-2, K-5 buildings, and then 1 or two middle school or junior high 6-8th. The district or central office houses all the head honchos that keep the ball rolling. Your school may be lucky or unfortunate enough to be near or housed in this building. You have the superintendent, and his secretary. Might be an Asst. Supt. also. Enrollment Coordinator brings kids in, and makes sure they are in the school boundaries. Transportation sets up and keeps school buses running. May be outsourced, or district may maintain their own fleet. Also includes school vehicles for other services. Health Services makes sure everyone is up to date with immunizations, places and supervises school nurses. Then there's the substitute coordinator. And, the Education Coordinator/Curriculum and instruction director - who help design the materials and scope and sequence of what is taught - sometimes with or without input from faculty. Might be a Public Relations person who keeps the district on the good side of the media, and begs for tax increases, and donations. Printing Services runs copies that you can't do in the school. The finance director, and everyone's friend or foe - the payroll person. Personnel or H.R. is also housed there. You see them first, and unfortunately, on your way out. Personal note: Don't go up looking for Payroll or Personnel people without an appointment, they don't take kindly to teachers visiting them unannounced. :oops:

    Facilities Specialist takes care of building issues. Custodians work year round, so that's a big department.Communications and IT keep everything humming smoothly. Special Ed. Coord. is another position, might be one for each school. Food Services is a changing program. Some schools are now outsourcing this to independent companies that prepare gourmet lunches :cool:.

    These jobs are 8-5, following the school holidays and breaks. Some staff members work during the summer as well.
     
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  39. ChildWhisperer

    ChildWhisperer Groupie

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    Wait what. Where I'm from and where I am now, the school districts go from ECE through high schools in one district. They are not separate districts
     
  40. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Disclaimer, this is just some places where I've worked. Different in different places. One suburb has 4 separate districts. One of those districts is a one school district.
     

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