B's are Academic Suicide?

Discussion in 'College' started by Peregrin5, May 16, 2012.

  1. Poodle15

    Poodle15 Companion

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    Oct 16, 2012

    At my school and for my major (childhood education) you must pass the educational classes with at least a C but most NY 4yr colleges will not accept less than a 3.0 GPA. I'm in my first year with a 3.5 GPA and I can see it going down to about a 3.3. History is my weakest subject and the online classes are killing me for their lack of true instruction and tests from their on-campus classes (meaning the tests have questions from their lectures that we don't attend and don't have relevance in the text). I will not be taking any more online classes except for *maybe* the other English Lit classes I need and my second foreign language.

    I'm looking to transfer to U of North Carolina and word has it their standards are lower than NY. So hopefully I can finish up my 2nd year with a 3.7 like I've intended and get accepted over some in-state applicants.

    I don't have much discipline with a couple of my online classes and it scares me as far as how this will translate into my career as a teacher. I'm doing much better now than when I first went to college in 2001 and 2002, but I see myself falling into the same patterns. I take comfort in my Bs and As (no Cs thank God) and that I do well in and sincerely enjoy my education class.

    Speaking of, my ED150 (first education course) class is NOT easy with 15hrs of observation, 7 observation assignments, an analysis of a book ("You Can't Say You Can't Play"), an analysis of a scholarly journal article along with a presentation and at least 4 tests. I was the only one to get a perfect score on our first test and there were people with scores of 12 and 14 (out of 50). In order to pass this class, you MUST show up, listen, take notes and read the book. There is absolutely no easy way to pass this class. I can't imagine other schools letting them be "show up and breathe" courses when they are the basis of your major and future career.
     
  2. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Oct 16, 2012

    I would say B's definitely are considered bad, but it really depends on what you're planning to do with those grades.

    Grade inflation is rampant. It's the reason I absolutely hate one of my current professors. He arbitrarily decides to make an A 93%. Anything below that is a B.

    I wouldn't mind 90-92.99% being an A-, but a B, in this day and age, come on.

    Basically you're guaranteed to run into a professor or two like that, in your college career (graduate or otherwise), that just get gratification out of knowing they're stopping your "easy A" and in their minds they're combating grade inflation.

    Slight rant, but the second anyone adjusts grades up from the standard 90, 80, 70, 60; I immediately think less of them. Just grade better, dang it.
     
  3. Poodle15

    Poodle15 Companion

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    Oct 16, 2012

    I wanted to add: 69 and lower is failing where I went to school from 3rd to my HS graduation. I moved here to NY and suddenly 59 and under is failing and D is passing. Seriously? I think that's unacceptable. But it's probably only because I grew up with that grading system. I just don't understand passing with a grade in the 60s. Even at my (community) college it's "passing" though it won't fly for classes pertaining to your major.
     
  4. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Oct 16, 2012

    I agree with you that a D should not be passing, at least for a major, but a D shouldn't end at 75%, another arbitrary number from my wonderful professor.
     
  5. Poodle15

    Poodle15 Companion

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    Oct 16, 2012

    When you have only one or two teachers using a different system, it can really mess you up. They all need to be using the same type of system. 1-100, weighted grades, point system, etc. Having someone choose their own idea of a grade seems ineffective and frustrating for students!

    And a D is passing, but most classes (or all of them for all I know) that pertain to your major must be passed with at least a C to move on to the next class.
     
  6. Math

    Math Cohort

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    Oct 16, 2012

    Why is having a "B" a bad thing? I mean it is still passing.
     
  7. MikeTeachesMath

    MikeTeachesMath Devotee

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    Oct 16, 2012

    Well this is awkward. I failed my Structures & Proofs math course I took this summer and now I'm re-taking it this semester. Plus I got a C+ in Calc 2 last semester.

    Does my A in Statistics make up for it? :lol:
     
  8. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Oct 16, 2012

    When you go to college you'll understand. I'll try to break it down for you.

    Basically, for all majors outside of engineering/math/science (and to some degree those too), an A is considered a must because it is so easy to achieve. There's what's known as a gentleman's B, which is basically the grade given to anyone that tries, even just a little - grade inflation - it's the new average (the term used to, and still does, signify the grade kids of rich contributors used to get even if they never went to class at certain schools). You almost have to skip half your classes, not read the text, and do poorly on the majority of exams/papers to get a C in a liberal arts course.

    I don't have the links to the data; I'm sure you can easily Google it.

    Basically every few years the average GPA of students has gone up, up, and up. The average GPA used to be "C," now it's something like "B" borderline "A" is the "average." But as you know, we think of C as average, but the math tells us that the average student is well above a C, and thus the cycle continues. It also continues because schools want higher performing students, and teachers want to be known for higher performing students, etc.

    Let me add an edit. So basically if you get stuck with a professor that's up on his or her soapbox and decides to be all declarative of how much harder said A is going to be (worst case scenario they declare "I only let x% of students obtain an A," that professor may end up giving you a B, or worse yet a C. That same course taught by 9/10, scratch that, 99/100 other professors would net you an A.

    Now you go to apply for grad school or a prestigious job and you have these one or two lingering B's and C's...then people think "did you even go to class?"

    That's the argument in a nutshell.

    *Edit* I made that sound a lot more dramatic than it really is, haha.

    No one will get you down for 1 or 2 B's except maybe the most prestigious places, even then they'll do comparative analysis of your institution's average GPA vs your own, so it's not all dire straights. :p
     
  9. ancientcivteach

    ancientcivteach Habitué

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    Oct 17, 2012

    :yeahthat:
     
  10. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Oct 17, 2012

    My supe uses GPA as a screening tool. We have hundreds of resumes for every one opening...impeccable cover letters, GPAs, professional appearance...everything counts.
     
  11. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Oct 18, 2012

    Honestly, I think GPA should count when you're applying for a teaching job.

    Taking a teacher certification exam just gives a tiny little snapshot of your abilities. GPA is more long term; I think it gives a more accurate view of your handle on the material.
     
  12. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Oct 18, 2012

    I agree, but I think a person's GPA has to be taken in context. If a person has a relatively low GPA, but their last few years of school were stellar, I wouldn't mind the low GPA nearly as much. It averages with a point in their life when they weren't who they are today.

    Someone with a 3.0 that was 2.0 year one and two, and 4.0 year three and four shows positive change. I'd also consider lower GPAs based on the amount of hours a person worked outside of school or volunteered, but that's just me.
     
  13. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Oct 19, 2012

    I think a big part of it should include the individual coursework.

    I would want a prospective math teacher to KNOW her math. If she struggled a bit with the mandatory philosophy coursework, I could live with that.

    But if her math courses are the reason for that low GPA, then I do think it should have a effect on whether or not she gets hired.
     
  14. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Oct 19, 2012

    My principal commented on my GPA when I was hired an I do think it made a difference. However, I don't think a mediocre GPA would have kept someone from the job, but it may be harder and a low GPA would need some outside experience and a really good reccomendation I think.
     
  15. MissPapa

    MissPapa Comrade

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    Dec 17, 2012

    AMEN!!!! I totally agree! Those tests we have to take is just for certification to be able to work in public school. It took me a while until I passed all my certification tests. What really counts is your portfolio, which can be related to your GPA because your portfolio when you start out relates to your schoolwork. I have classmates that tell me I stress too much with my work, being that what matters is that I pass. No, what matters is that I not only produce an impressive portfolio, but that I understand the content that my professors taught and how the material was handled. Thankfully sofar, the lowest I received in my grad school transcript was an A-.

    Yes, I do agree that Bs are academic suicide these days. I will never settle for one at all.
     
  16. kevo2005

    kevo2005 Companion

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    Jul 9, 2013

    Same thing could be said that a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma. Thus the creation of the super Ph.D.
     
  17. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    Aug 11, 2013

    In most fields, this is not true. I know in teaching, the best thing to do is to do outstanding in student-teaching, substitute teaching, and in the interview. These are all looked at far more than the GPA. When I was in business, being below a 3.0 put you at the bottom of most job searches, but experience and the interview was far more important than if you had a 3.5 or a 3.3 GPA.

    A close friend of mine had only a 3.2 GPA in college, but completely kicked butt on his law entrance exam. He got into law and is doing well as a lawyer.

    Don't get me wrong, grades do matter and make the path to a career or grad school a bit easier. Though, to call a "B" academic suicide is nonsense. Nearly all leaders got their fair shares of B's in college.
     
  18. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Aug 22, 2013

    I actually don't agree. What grades a student gets in their college years is a very poor predictor of performance in an actual job.

    While yes, the subject matter tests, are more of a snapshot into their knowledge about the subject, grades do not always reflect work ethic. Especially since students these days seem to be maturing later than college. Just as B's are the new C's, and Bachelor's are the new High School Diplomas, it seems that undergraduate students are the new High School students, taking with them a maturity level that is very similar to the maturity level expected in High School a few decades ago. People in High School back then expected to work immediately after HS and very few knew they were going onto college. Those who did, most likely specifically knew what they wanted to study and went straight for it because of the clear career goal they had ahead of them.

    Today's undergraduate college students go to college usually not knowing where they'll end up or even what they want to study. To them, undergrad is an extension of High School. I also feel that High Schools and colleges are fairly poor at teaching study skills these days, and it usually ends up being a trial and error thing for many college students which some get faster than others.

    Grades are also VERY subjective due to the fact that each class entails something different, and has different teachers and requirements. In this case, subject matter tests are far more reliable for determining knowledge preparation for a subject.

    Grades can be indicative of work ethic or they can be indicative of study skills (which are not always applicable to a real-world job). Instead of being useful measurements, they often turn out to be detrimental, causing people to rule out a candidate because of their GPA without holistically taking a look at their other credentials, being test scores, or interviews. Although I think experience still beats out even GPAs.
     

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