Breaking a contract...from the other side

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by GoldenPoppy, Aug 11, 2012.

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  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Aug 11, 2012

    Sometimes it isn't easy to walk away from a decent-paying part-time job, even if what you're after is a full-time job. If I needed a job, I'd accept any job, even if it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I'm sorry to say that I wouldn't hesitate to walk away from a part-time job if a full-time job opened up. I don't think I'm a bad person for doing that. We have to do what we have to do to support our families.

    This guy resigned from the position within 24 hours. It's not like he left you in the lurch by being a no-show or something. I really think that you need to let this one go and focus your efforts on getting someone new to fill the position. I can almost guarantee you that you'll get more hits if you turn it into a full-time position.
     
  2. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Perhaps he could afford part time by just squeezing by, which is much better than unemployment. On the other hand, no one wants to squeeze by if they have other options. It sounds like a decent position so I don't think it should be terribly hard to fill.
     
  3. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

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    What would you have done on Tuesday if candidate B had turned down the offer immediately? I do think your response is out of proportion to the cost incurred by losing that 24 hours.
     
  4. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    In a perfect world....

    Mr. B knew he'd interviewed for the other position. You called him Tuesday. He tells you he needs a day or two to think about it, you tell him that's fine. He calls you Wednesday to tell you he'll be unable to accept your offer, as an offer for full time has been made.

    Would you still be upset with him? If the answer is no, then you really need to let this go. While he didn't handle the situation as professionally as he could have, and should have waited to commit to your school, you really didn't lose any time by his decision to accept the better offer.
     
  5. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    This is what I don't understand either. :confused: Wouldn't you have needed a hiring service either way? Maybe morally you disagree with his decision, but it wasn't illegal.

    Also, I would have done the same thing as him. :sorry: A part-time job is better than no job...but a full-time job trumps everything.
     
  6. teach42

    teach42 Comrade

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    The position doesn't sound too bad considering that there are health benefits, which most part-time jobs don't even offer. The salary also isn't too bad unless it's a high COL area. Since the economic downturn, a lot of things have changed. There are plenty of people who are seeking full-time work who will accept a part-time job and would leave at the drop of a hat if they were offered full-time employment. And I don't blame them.
     
  7. Pisces_Fish

    Pisces_Fish Fanatic

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    Aug 11, 2012

    I side with Candidate B backing out 100%. He probably knew in his heart he was 2nd choice at your school. Unless he's exceedingly lucky, he was probably the 1st choice at his new school. I find no fault in taking a full-time position where you feel more like you belong, not like some runner-up for the remainder of the year. I actually will go so far as to give kudos to Candidate B - he got not one, but two jobs offers in New Jersey. That's impressive.

    To the OP, I am truly sorry you have to find a replacement...again. I know it must be so stressful. But Candidate B did you a back-handed favor by not stringing you along for 2 or 3 more days. I think you should take a deep breath, maybe lay into a stress ball, and let it go. There will be many other candidates, perhaps not all of them particularly qualified, but I suspect you will find the right one. Best of luck to you.
     
  8. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Aug 12, 2012

    FourSquare said the same thing I was going to: "part time" is better than "no time", but "full time" is better than both.

    I'm assuming Mr. B initially accepted your offer because it's almost time for school to start and he had not received any other offers at the time. Even if he felt the other school might offer him a position, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. As a recent job-searcher myself, I can certainly understand why he would go ahead and accept your offer when he received it. But once a call came for a full-time offer, I can also understand why he notified your school right away that he would no longer be able to work there.

    Since you did interview 5 people, it seems the best choice would be to call candidate #3 and see if they were still interested, but I realize the process may not be that simple.

    I will say that the pay and benefits sound pretty good for a part-time position, so hopefully you will find someone who WILL be a good fit for your school very soon.
     
  9. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    It's a horrible thing that you're going through. You really have to ask yourself though if you'd rather spend this time suing Mr. B, or finding a new candidate? Unfortunately things like this happen. It's not right, not honorable, but we have to get up and continue walking on. Don't get hung up on the small stuff. I'm sorry again, and I wish you the best in your search for a candidate.
     
  10. GTB4GT

    GTB4GT Cohort

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    I too realize the world has changed and maybe not for the better.At one time I may have 100% agreed with you. However, over the years I have seen many honest, hard working people layed off, "downsized", outsourced, RIF'd, etc., etc.That has lead to an environment where people feel like they "have to take care of number 1." Whether that's right or wrong is a very lengthy topic in and of itself but I have learned that decisions like this teacher's are not to be taken personally.I say let it go and waste no more energy or time tying to recover your losses - it will hurt your reputation as an employer. Best wishes on filling this spot - it appears to be a reasonable offer for a PT position.
     
  11. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    I don't consider it to be a lack of honor when somebody accepts a better job offer. While it may not have happened in this case, we all know that districts shift people around and decide NOT to renew contracts every year, even when teachers have been in the same school for a number of years and been successful with their classes. If the district decides to move or non-renew them, there isn't a lot of recourse for the teachers most of the time.

    Employees did use to have loyalty to their companies, but in the 80's, the companies began betraying that loyalty by firing long-term employees in order to avoid paying the pensions those employees had contributed to for years. The companies also realized they could hire college grads for a lot less money than the veteran employees were making, so it seemed like a win-win for corporate bottom lines; they saved money on pensions and on new salaries. While the college grads may have been grateful for the jobs, they also realized they would eventually become the employees being cut as time went on. This wasn't done in every industry, of course, but it was done in enough that it became pretty standard practice.

    As a result, employees also decided to start looking out for themselves FIRST and their employers second. By the early 2000's, many employees were considered "senior members" if they had stayed with the same company for more than 5 years. Naturally, the companies then began to complain about the lack of commitment and, also, the lack of "honor" among new employees, but the truth is the companies were the one who established the precedent and made it necessary for employees to change their loyalties.
     
  12. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I don't agree with this. When you have nothing, you apply for every position possible. This would have been better than nothing, but the full-time position was better than this.

    ETA: Just finished reading the thread and see this has already been said a couple times. Oops. :)
     
  13. msufan

    msufan Comrade

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    Yeah, GoldenPoppy is WAY off base here. Leaving a part-time job for a full-time one is standard, especially when we're talking about him being on the job all of 24 hours. My district will knowingly offer people full-time positions even if they've already committed to a part-time position elsewhere.
     
  14. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Once the school year starts, my P will not even interview someone who currently has a job in a school. This includes people who are working as a T.A. or other support position and who want to be the classroom teacher and has had experience.

    I think Poppy is just frustrated. We've had 2 classroom teachers accept the job and then leave within 24 hours. Chances are they found something that either pays better or is closer to home.
     
  15. ChemTeachBHS

    ChemTeachBHS Comrade

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    I have to agree a part time job is better than no job. But if a full time one comes along you have to do what's best for you. I speak from experience. My husband worked 3 days a week at one school (school A) and 2 days a week at another school (school B). It was per diem with no benefits. To make a long story short another teacher left school B and he was offered a full time position but had to accept on the spot. He only gave 1 week notice to school A. Can you blame him for leaving a part time position for a full time one 6 weeks before our wedding, when we needed the money the most?
     
  16. GTB4GT

    GTB4GT Cohort

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    some people can and will. others won't. That is what makes life so interesting...there's many different opinions on how to go about it. and everyone is equally passionate that their version is the correct way.
     
  17. lizmern

    lizmern Rookie

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    Aug 18, 2012

    I know some teachers that have left one school for another school at the beginning of the year- after contracts were signed. As horrible as it is, they ALL lied claiming family concerns, illness, etc. If they told the truth, they would be in the same boat as Mr. B.

    Think about it: You automatically understood Mr. A's reasons for leaving (even if they aren't true). If any other administrator were to ever bring his name up around you- you would most likely say nothing or talk about what happened sympathizing with him. He didn't have to deal with you being angry or worrying about any negative repercussions.

    Now Mr. B told you what he was doing, and you are talking about filing a lawsuit against him. Without a doubt, he was 100% honest about why he was leaving.

    If Mr. A was being completely honest or not isn't the point. The point is, anyone could have easily used that reasoning without being honest. I strongly believe that the lack of honor and character you see stems from the fact that if someone can tell a lie and have things go over much more smoothly than telling the truth- most people will lie, lie, lie!
     
  18. pete2770

    pete2770 Comrade

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    Aug 18, 2012

    I'm with the OP on this one. I simply won't apply for jobs I'm unwilling to accept.

    If I give my word, I give my word and that's that.

    When I begin my job hunt this next spring, no part time jobs will be in consideration. The first (hopefully I get an offer) offer I receive will be accepted within the time-frame because I will decide before I apply if it works for me. I'd only wait on my "yes" until the last minute if there was a chance for a better offer, but if I accepted it would be a done deal, period.
     
  19. orangetea

    orangetea Connoisseur

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    The problem is that in this job market, people need to apply for everything they can to give themselves the best chance at getting a job.
     
  20. kpa1b2

    kpa1b2 Aficionado

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    Aug 18, 2012

    I understand that. But, if I had a middle school endorsement (I don't) I would have to think very carefully before even applying for such a position. Of couse, the closer to the beginning of the school year, the more likely I would be to apply for such a position.
     
  21. paperlabs

    paperlabs Rookie

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    Aug 18, 2012

    I feel bad. Withdrew acceptance of an offer form a great guy to work for.

    What about me?
    I feel bad about an offer I withdrew – really bad after reading these posts. I haven't read them all, but got enough motivation to write this.
    It was a district with several schools and school had started already.
    Principal A offered the position on Monday and said the board had to approve at the board meeting on Tuesday. He expected me to be in the classroom Wednesday, no later than Thursday. I accepted.
    The Tuesday board meeting was canceled, but I didn’t know that.
    Wednesday I expected an early call from him. But no call came so I worked on my motorcycle for the commute (30 miles). Late Wednesday, about 5pm, I got a call from principal B of a different school in the same district. She offered a position. I was confused – wondered if the first offer from P.A had fallen through. I told her I would accept the offer, but I already accepted P.A’s offer. She said that was ok and all I had to do was send her an e.mail that I was switching and she would take that to the board meeting on Thursday evening. I had to think fast and I just thought to go with the sure thing. Keep in mind I didn’t know if the offer from P.B fell through. It even crossed my mind that maybe P.A and P.B were talking and trying to help me out by offering a position with a closer commute. The second position was only about an 11 mile commute. But I feel that the commute was offset in my mind by the fact that P.A was such a great guy to work for. I still did not know the Tuesday board meeting had been canceled.
    Well, I e.mailed P.B that I was switching and e.mailed P.A with only enough guts to say that I felt it best if I take P.A’s offer. He e.mailed back saying he was out of town for a few days, but that he put a lot of time and effort into me. He said I had to give him a clear answer. He seemed upset, but he also said I gave the best interview he’s ever had – maybe trying to make me feel good. Anyway, makes me feel bad because he is a great guy and everyone says he is great to work for.
    Before I got back to him with a clearly decided e.mail, some friends told me that the Tuesday Board meeting had been canceled. That finally explained a lot to me.
    Now I still felt like maybe P.A and B were talking and who knows – maybe doing me a commute favor. So I e.mailed him and told him clearly that I was accepting P.B’s offer and withdrawing P.A’s offer.
    Well, there is actually more to all of this, but it is so long now, and I guess I made my point. I just want to state that because I might continue this in another post.
     
  22. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Aug 18, 2012

    So, to be clear, you accepted the position which was offered first, right?
     
  23. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician Groupie

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    Aug 18, 2012

    GoldenPoppy---have you found a new teacher?
     
  24. paperlabs

    paperlabs Rookie

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    Aug 18, 2012

    Sorry, I got that end part backwards.

    You talking to me, JustMe?
    No, I messed up. I've gone back and edited it.
    Thanks.
     
  25. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Ah, got it, paperlabs. :)
     
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