BOSSY Pharmacy Tech!!!

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by justjules91, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Jun 13, 2011


    Your name and address are two of the most important bits of data a hacker would need to steal your identity. The only other vital piece of data they would need is your SS# and they could obtain that easily enough by creating a fake ID, going to their local Social Security office, claim they lost their SS card and ask for a replacement.

    Same thing with credit card info. The article says hackers can only steal your account info. Okay, what information do you have to provide to set up your account to begin with? The same personal info stored on your DL; name, address, etc. I really doubt the physical description info matters that much to the hackers, since they could just take your name and info and get a new DL with their picture (and physical data) on it.

    Oh...one other thing your credit card or debit card account will have that your DL does not....your email address. Now the hacker try to hack and read your emails as well.

    The article attempts to make a BIG distinction between credit card fraud and identity theft. I agree that identity theft can be far more damaging, but I do NOT agree that hacking your DL info is the only way that could happen. I would guess the vast majority of identity theft still occurs based on data obtained from credit card information rather than DL info, because both store the same personal information about the holder (with the possible exception of SS# on the DL).

    As for which of the two is more difficult repair, that's really hard to say. Debit card info can allow the hacker to wipe out your entire bank account, leaving you no money at all to pay for getting the damage repaired. While their are legal limits to how much you can be held liable for with credit card fraud, that only applies AFTER you have convinced the credit card company you really did lose your cards. Until then, you are responsible for ALL charges being made. When I worked for the home health company, one of my patients was going through that very process. His cards had been stolen and he was having to make dozens of calls every day to finance companies, vendors, retailers and the banks trying to (a) establish the fact his cards HAD been stolen and (b) be released from responsibility for the charges that had been made. It took him over a month before he finally got it straightened out.

    On the flip side of that, I actually had a former supervisor "steal" my identity. We had the same name, so that part was easy. He also had my address and other personal info from my application. A few months after he left that job and moved out of state, I began getting collection calls from all kinds of places; a local furniture store, insurance companies, different banks and even a car dealership in the next state. Apparently, this guy went on a spending spree and kept using MY address and phone number. Fortunately, I never had to actually pay any of the charges he ran up, but it took about 6 months before I stopped getting calls.

    This was in the early 90's, so the internet was still fairly new. While I didn't have to pay any money for his escapades, I have no idea how it might have affected my credit score because there was no way for me to check on that at the time. Overall, their was no real damage done, but it could have gotten very bad if he had been more malicious.
     
  2. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jun 14, 2011

    I presented my Student ID which is a valid photo ID.

    They said I had to show my Driver's License and that it had to be swiped.


    Julie
     
  3. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    I posted an alternative way to track people across state lines that works just as well...


    Julie
     
  4. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    How do you know it is?

    Do you work in Walgreen's IT Dept?

    Here is what the hackers who stole over 100 MILLION records from Sony back in April 2011 posted online...

    Do you honestly think Walgreens is any more secure?


    Julie
     
  5. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    I'm sorry, but you are blatantly wrong.

    If stealing people's identity was that easy all you would need is a phone book...


    Wrong.


    You need a lot more info than a Name and Address to get a Driver's License.

    Same so an Social Security card.

    But once you have an SSN and DL# is is relatively easy to open other accounts.

    That is the key reason you guard your SSN and DL # and DOB...


    So why is Walgreens collecting it?


    Where do you come up with these comments? :confused:

    If someone knows your e-mail then they can read your e-mails?! :whistle:


    I never said it was the *only* way, but why give it out when the law says you don't have to and it doesn't solve the Meth problem?

    Again, I proposed a simple solution every bit as effective as what Walgreens does and far safer for Sudafed buyers...


    The article I posted a link to above went in to detain why Credit Card Theft does not equal Identity Theft.

    If I steal your Credit Card # I can't go get a SSN or DL #.

    If I steal your SSN and DL then I can open a Credit Card a list of other account.


    Wrong.

    If you read the article it says the exact opposite.

    You have limited liability if someone steals your Credit or Debit Card.

    If someone steals your SSN you are toast! (Losing your DL # isn't much better although I suppose they could re-issue it.)


    I agree that would be a horrible situation.

    But the original post/point is that Walgreens has no business taking my Driver's License # for a Sudafed purchase.

    And if you think your friend went through hell be a victim of Credit Card Fraud, ask someone who has had their SSN and DL# stolen how it compares...


    So you know how bad it can be.

    Then why not fight for your rights to protect your info on your Driver's License?!

    It would suck if that happened to you again - this time because someone got your Driver's License info from a store that sold you Sudafed.


    I agree.

    That is why people need to be vigilant who has what.

    The more you give the greater your chances of getting burned...


    Julie
     
  6. msmullenjr

    msmullenjr Devotee

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    Jun 14, 2011

    :dizzy:
     
  7. Joyful!

    Joyful! Habitué

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    Jun 14, 2011

    Scan my license? Not a big fan of that. My state has every personal piece of info linked to my license. They scanned my marriage license, my birth certificate and my driver's registration before I could renew my license this time. Makes me a little nervous if some smart tech person could access those items as well.

    On the other hand, I don't like the idea of someone running a meth lab. It's a case where someone can not make good choices or legal choices forces me (making good and legal choices) to surrender my liberties in HOPE that we can make them choose correctly.

    It is hard to be definitively on one side concerning this issue. (at least it is for me.)
     
  8. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Jun 14, 2011

    I think it boils down to you choosing to shop elsewhere. The alternatives you have shared are not, for various reasons, what Walgreens has opted to use. Again, I think the license is a standard form of ID the majority of people have, it's fast, reliable, simple...
     
  9. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Jun 14, 2011

    And it's government issued. A school ID is not.
     
  10. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    No, I don't. Do you? No, you don't. So we're both making assumptions. Yours is based on your anger over their policy. Mine is based on the liability they could face if their system was hacked like Sony's and others. No..I don't know for certain their system is encrypted, but that would be the most sensible precaution from a business standpoint. Of course, I could be wrong, but is a moot point to me personally since I don't shop with Walgreens.


    I honestly don't know if Walgreens is more secure or not. Neither do you.
     
  11. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    I said it was two of the most important pieces of information needed. I didn't say it was all of the information needed.

    Not if you're making your own DL, which many pro identity thieves do. The only other thing you would need (IF you wanted it to match the victim) is DOB. Then you list your physical characteristics.

    Once you've made your own DL, getting a replacement SS# would be fairly easy, as long as your fake ID looked legitimate enough.

    Walgreens is collecting the name, address and DOB. Your STATE is the one placing all the other data on the strip. Again, your anger about all your personal info being so vulnerable is mis-directed. If you don't like it being that available, you should petition against the state storing it on the strip to begin with. Then it wouldn't matter if Walgreens (or any other store) wanted to swipe your DL.

    As for WHY they do it, I agree with others it is more likely a matter if efficiency; it's just easier and quicker to swipe and store the information than to enter it manually.


    A valid email address is usually required for credit card applications, especially if you complete them online. If someone gets your CC#, that is attached to your account information, which includes most of the vital info also stored on your DL (name, address and DOB). In addition, your email address will be listed on your account profile. Then it is just a matter of the hackers guessing your password and they will have access to your emails. Where do I come up with these comments? Maybe you aren't concerned with a hacker getting access to your email and reading it, but I think it is a legitimate concern.

     
  12. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jun 15, 2011

    My exact point.

    Why trust someone unless you know they are regulated and likely taking safe precautions.

    Data Management is the "Wild West". There are no laws.

    If Walgreens was as heavily regulated as my bank I'd be less concerned. But it isn't regulated at all.

    In the news tonight...

    Hackers take down CIA website, break into Senate site

    I'd encourage everyone to follow the hacking group LulzSec.

    After the targeted attacks on Sony, mark my world that the ante on Cyber-Crime and Data-Breaches just went through the roof.

    Not that I wish it, but be prepared to see Tens of Miilions of innocent people be victimized over the next few months and year.

    We have entered a new phase in history when it comes to Cyber-Criminals... :(


    Julie
     
  13. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    I don't disagree.


    I'm going to have fun with this one... ;)

    -------
    I run a liquor store.

    The law says you have to be 21 to buy alcohol in the U.S.

    It's my observation that people 25 and older are typically more mature than those at 21.

    As a public service, I decide to "follow the law" but add on my own extra rules...

    In order to buy alcohol at *my* store, you have to provide a valid Gov't-issued ID and be at least 25 years of age.

    (Of course, I would *never* insist on swiping your Driver's License. I refuse people of legal drinking age the old-fashioned way... I just look at the ID and turn them away!!) :lol: :lol:

    Don't like my law?!

    Then go buy your alcohol somewhere else...

    My liquor store!

    My rules!

    Your tough luck...
    -------------

    Is what Walgreens (or Wal-Mart or Target) does really any different?!

    No.


    And I plan on it!


    Agreed!



    Yes, as time goes on you can lose more on a Debit Card.

    Then again, your Debit Card should never leave your sight.

    And if you don't check your banking statements every month then you're asking for it.


    Julie
     
  14. sue35

    sue35 Habitué

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    Jun 15, 2011

    I agree that I feel you are kind of misdirecting your anger. I know if my SS# was on my driver's license (I know in some states it is your DL #) I would be much more upset about that. Nowhere on my license does my SSN# show.

    I know that you need more than your license to get a SS# card, at least it did when I needed to get another one.

    Oddly enough I have had both my credit card taken and used and my SS# taken and used. I ran into MUCH more trouble with the credit card. I know that is not common but for me it was much worse with the credit card.
     
  15. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I actually get upset when I use my credit card and an ID is not checked. Someone could use somebody's credit card easily because most stores don't check ID's. My husband's wallet was stolen once and they were able to spend $50 dollars at burger king and no one checked for an ID.
     
  16. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    First, I'm not convinced this is an apples to apples comparison, but I digress...

    You can do whatever you want in your store, as long as you are following the legal limitations imposed on you by the government. And you are, since you do not sell to people under 21.

    If you want to impose additional limitations on your customers, what does the government care?

    Your customers will though. And they won't shop there. Well, some of them won't. And as long as you are still making enough money off the non-caring buyers to fulfill your bottom line, then have at it.

    Isn't that what Walgreens is doing? Apparently there are enough non-caring shoppers to support Walgreens' decision.
     
  17. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Jun 15, 2011

    I find justjules91 argument quite compelling.
    The other day I had to get some allergy meds for Terri since she was VERY uncomfortable. When the Pharmacy Tech swiped my DL I was very uneasy but I did not have the time to complain. Next time I will ask them to type in my info and NOT to swipe my card..... I mean even the MVD does not swipe it! (I have been to the MVD 3 times this year)
    Since it was reported TODAY that the CIA was hacked (they say it was not sensitive material) they are not worried BS, They are worried!
    SO if the CIA can be hacked so can CVS, Walgreens or Walmart.

    As for privacy .... how many of our teachers right here on A to Z do not even list their state on their Profile? But some will give their personal info to anyone who asks for it in a store or to a pseudo-authority .
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  18. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    My turn to have fun.

    The law states I can buy liquor at the age of 21. If you refuse to sell to anyone under age 25, you are breaking the law...especially if you can't justify the rule with anything more than "It's MY store and I make the rules here." Requiring the gov't issued ID, however, is a different matter and I think you would be well within your rights to demand that, since fake ID's are so easy to make with today's technology.

    Now, you CAN still make and enforce the "Age 25" rule if you want, and I can decide to just go somewhere else if I don't like it. OR I can decide to call the Better Business Bureau and show them you are violating the federal law stating "Age 21" is old enough to buy booze.

    Yes.

    Walgreens is not requiring any extra ID to buy the Sudafed, they just require the info to be scanned into their system; a practice they can easily justify by showing this creates a database shared with all their stores to prevent customers from making multiple purchases at different locations. You can complain about it if you want, but the law is going to back Walgreens since they are showing they are trying to take extra steps in preventing the purchase of Sudafed for meth labs.
     
  19. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Many bars, clubs, and casinos scan IDs to enter. I know I said that before, but no one seems to be understanding that this has existed for at least 10 years and for a variety of purposes. If I have to swipe my ID to go into a bar, why wouldn't I expect to swipe it to buy what I fear will soon become a more controlled substance? I think this sense of a right to privacy we have is quickly being diminished.
     
  20. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    That has nothing to do with this debate.

    Jules, who would you allow to scan your card? Would you tell a policeman no? I don't believe anyone or any group, including law enforcement, is perfectly protected from the threat of hackers and so forth. And many times it's local individuals with access to this information who use it to their advantage, not necessarily a major hacker's project.
     
  21. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Why do you think this? I may be missing something, but I don't see where anyone is debating this.

    Even though the technology has been around for that long, I don't believe everyone has yet to "deal" with it. I have never had my ID swiped, but I recognize the strip on the back has been there for several years.
     
  22. TeacherApr

    TeacherApr Groupie

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    JustJules, you do know that by turning people away that are of age to buy liquor at your store , you are breaking the law right? All it takes is one for you to either get shut down or get a fat fine.
     
  23. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Well, if you were in college in Boston or Tampa in the early 2000's, and you went out to a bar, club, or casino, you probably had your ID swiped at lease once or twice. Since they also had swipers at some tiny little bars in Louisiana by the time I moved back here, I had just sortof assumed that it was universal. I guess maybe I'm the only person on here who ever went to bars, clubs, etc. that swipe IDs, but it was a weekly occurrence for me throughout college and since then on rare occasions that I do go out.

    I was mostly pointing out that I don't get why this is a big deal now when it's been what I thought was a fairly common practice for at least a decade. I just don't get the big deal.
     
  24. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Target, if memory serves, also does a DL swipe if you're buying Sudafed. It's been so long since I've bought the stuff, though. It was affecting my heart because I was taking too much on a regular basis. Nowadays, it's a Zyrtec at night and Flonase as needed during the day.
     
  25. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    A policeman would have the authority to scan your card
    The use of a Drivers license as an ID should be limited to a picture, DL# and Address but the scan can reveal more than that.
     
  26. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Authority, yes. But that doesn't mean the information is still not at risk. Maybe the card should be limited to that basic information, but it's clearly not. I think that's why so many have suggested the concern over this practice be taken up with the right party.
     
  27. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    I totally disagree.

    Now, I don't have anything obvious to back this up, but intuitively you can't just make up any rules you want to restrict people from buying things from you. *Particularly* when your additional requirements prohibit people who would otherwise qualify from benefiting from what ever service or product you offer. Thus my example, which is pretty analogous.

    What if Walgreens refused to sell you Sudafed unless you let them photocopy your Driver's License and Social Security Card?

    Would you still feel the same?

    What if Walgreens insisted that you provide a copy of your utility bill before you could buy Sudafed?

    (Everyone has their "tipping point". Don't tell me your patience is infinite?!)

    Quite frankly, this is prime material for Constitutional Law.


    Of course.


    Oh, no doubts there.

    Kinda like all of the people who still buy gas from BP stations...

    Or people who still invest in Wall Street...

    Who people who fawn over Sony PlayStations...

    It's AMAZING how the average consumer will turn a blind eye to Corporate Bullying.

    But it's a free country! ;)

    For me, I stand up when I see problems. I definitely "economically boycott" companies I dislike (e.g. Walgreens, Wal-Mart, BP, etc.) And who knows... maybe someday I'll get a alw passed to make the world a safer and better place?!


    Julie
     
  28. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    You're a smart man, Dave!! :lol:


    Amen!!!




    Excellent point!!!

    If you are really concerned about your privacy and security, then you need to live your life consistently!!


    Julie
     
  29. waterfall

    waterfall Maven

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    I agree- I can't believe people haven't experienced this before. I'm from the midwest and my college town wasn't at all a "big city." Every bar/club swiped your id to get in. So if you don't want your id swiped, you can never go out at all...

    Also, aren't most stores doing this and not just walgreens? Keeping a paper log seems absolutely ridiculous in this day and age. How is a paper log going to keep people from just going to every pharmacy around town? Also, when someone even goes back to that same exact pharmacy with the paper log, is the clerk expected to look through all the entries for the past week and see if that person has come in before? Do you really want to wait in line while that happens for every single customer? It just seems like a no brainer to me. Obviously they need the electronic data if they have any hope of actually keeping track of who is buying this stuff in large amounts. If you can't handle it, don't buy the medicine or find some mom and pop store that might not be so tech savy yet.
     
  30. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    A-ha, but the issue isn't seeing a valid Driver's License.

    The issue is Walgreens refusing to sell you Sudafed when you are following what the law says.

    And it is an issue of Walgreens refusing to sell you Sudafed unless you give them *at least* your...

    - Driver's License # (key to Identity Theft)
    - Date of Birth (key to Identity Theft)
    - Possible Social Security # (key to Identity Theft)

    and more...

    Here is what is supposedly is on the strip in California...

    Do you want Walgreens storing all of that in a (possibly) unencrypted database?

    I bet the hackers would love to get a hold of that to start cranking out illegal ID's...


    If enough people were educated on the Sudafed issue, I bet there would be a public uproar...


    And if they looked at your Driver's License, entered your Name and Address and Date-of-Purchase into a nationwide network - or even their own system - they could not accomplish the same end goal in a more privacy-minded manner???


    Julie
     
  31. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Jun 16, 2011

    Then perhaps you should change your profile, since you are the one that seems to be most concerned about your privacy and security.

    Want to make sure you are living your life consistently, right? ;)
     
  32. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    *sigh* There is a difference between the two (requiring a higher age limit vs scanning your ID), but you obviously aren't willing to consider it because you're still mad at Walgreens. Not much else I can say on the matter.

    I agree with you not wanting to have your personal info scanned into a database. I can understand that completely. That's why I would just take my business somewhere else.

    I disagree that Walgreens is breaking the law with their policy, though. The law requires them to check and record some of the personal information before making the sale. Walgreens has chosen to take that a step farther to show extra diligence in preventing customers from making multiple purchases at different locations. If the policy is challenged, my guess is the court would rule in Walgreens favor since they can justify the policy by (a) pointing out it creates a database accessible to all their locations at a moment's notice and (b) the information is recorded in the quickest, most efficient way possible to keep other customers from standing in line and waiting longer than necessary for their medicine.

    Unless the law specifically states (or explicitly implies) the scanning of DL's is not permitted, then Walgreens is not breaking the law.
     
  33. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Okay, good, I'm not the only one. I was starting to think I was crazy. Swiping IDs also has the added benefit of catching people using fake IDs to buy medicine.
     
  34. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    I was thinking the same thing. She said a Mom & Pop store that's fine. But I can drive about 30 miles in any direction and run into about 6 probably different Walgreens, so swiping the card for them is the same as "writing" in their notebook... it keeps track of you & how much you are buying.

    If you needed it for just a cold fine, but if you wanted to cook some Meth you could drive around to different stores to get what you need and they wouldn't know if they had the "notebook" at each store.

    To me it's the difference of the "mom & Pop" store compared to those big National chains.

    Makes me thankful for the people at the Walgreens I've visited... really nice.
     
  35. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Virtually no one.

    I just started a new job, and when my employer asked to scan my driver's license for the I-9 I said no way. (Again, the law says you don't have to photocopy it.)

    I've said no to employers, my bank, all retailers, and on and on.


    The police can scan my ID if they have a justifiable reason (e.g. I'm getting a speeding ticket), but if a cop walked up to me and demanded to see my ID and tried to take it off me, I'd ask for a reason first.

    And, yes, anything can be hacked.


    Right. So when you give up your info you run the risk that someone can get it and do nefarious things.

    It's sorta like sleeping around. The more you do it, the sooner you'll pay some horrible price.


    Julie
     
  36. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jul 9, 2011

    Why am I breaking the law when I turn away people who following the law (i.e. at least 21 years old) at my hypothetical liquor store, but Walgreens isn't breaking the law when they turn away customers who are following what the laws says you have to give to buy Sudafed?

    Its the same form of discrimination, unless some local law ups the ante.


    Julie
     
  37. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jul 9, 2011

    Well said.

    The whole larger is about *balance*.

    What a police officer needs during a traffic stop or car accident is MUCH DIFFERENT than what Walgreens needs when they sell Sudafed or an employer is doing payroll forms or I'm applying for a job, and so on.

    The bottom line is that Corporate America *harvests* data from consumers because it is easier, cheaper, and can be used for sales purposes.

    Walgreens takes every ounce of data of your Driver's License because it saves them time, money, staffing, and it CYA's them in case of issues.

    Walgreens is not doing this because they are champions of ridding the world of Meth...



    Julie
     
  38. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jul 9, 2011

    I don't have all of the answers, because this is a complex topic. And it is why more people need to be informed about privacy, security, and identity theft.

    However, I do know that people give out way too much information!! And that is a problem considering that almost every week this Spring and Summer some mega corporation have had a data breach.

    10 Biggest Data-Breaches of 2011 so far


    That just goes to show that Corporate America CAN'T be trusted with your sensitive information!!! (So why give out information that you are not legally required to give out, that serves no larger purpose, and that will eventually be expose?)

    Sincerely,


    Julie
     
  39. justjules91

    justjules91 Rookie

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    Jul 9, 2011

    I'm not saying that using a paper log book is a first choice for helping to track Sudafed purchases nationwide.

    HOWEVER, why do they need everything on the magnetic strip off my Passport or Driver's License or whatever?

    If a pharmacist looked at my valid Driver's License, typed in my Name, Address and maybe DOB into a computer system that tracked purchases natiowide, then 2 minutes later when I walked across the street to Hy-Vee you'd catch me. Right? And at the same time you don't have to "molest" good guys/gals in the process...

    What I just described is as effective as taking my DL # or SSN and it strikes a fair balance...

    Use the right tools for the right problem.



    Julie
     
  40. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    Jul 9, 2011

    Here it is kept behind the counter, you have to show I.D., and you have to sign for it.

    It is just a huge problem because of the meth producers.

    I accept it though it is a pain - kinda like taking off shoes at the airport. Innocent people have to be inconvenienced because of people who do illegal things.

    If you think it is a pain for you, imagine how the tech people feel, having to tell innocent people the same thing over and over and getting people mad at them for something they have no control over. Be mad at the druggies instead.
     

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