Book Discussion Group

Book Discussion Group, A Handbook for Classroom Instruction that Works, R.J. Marzano, et al.

Ch. 1 Identifying Similarities and Differences

 

I finished reading this section this morning. Here are some of my quick first impressions:

- I found the rubrics for each module very helpful. I like to provide my students with rubrics to help the students with their work, but often don't have the time to make my own. I also like that these rubrics are levels 1-4 which correspond to our grading system here in Ontario (I have to re-write rubrics with 5 levels)
- I realized that while I often expect my students to compare and to classify, I probably haven't, beyond providing examples and models, explicitly taught the skills they need to become more effective at this.
- I like the example of sorting the food in the grocery store by colour (I'll definitely use this!); even in grade 5 last year I had students who couldn't seem to understand that colour was not the ideal attribute to classify by (especially when the task was to sort polygons).

Next.....?

 

I think this addresses the problem I struggle with - how to encourage higher level thinking skills. Some kids do it naturally. I know I'm guilty of not using enough diagrams and rubrics. I'm not too sure about the metaphors and analogies mentioned in unit 1. Should we have purchased the other book, Classroom Instruction that Works, and used it with this handbook? 'Cause this one doesn't describe much of the rationale or how to carry it out.

 

One thing that I realized about myself was that I was not expecting my kids to REALLY think when they were looking for similiarities and differences. The activity where we had to think of another animal that they were to compare and another area to compare each animal was a stumper! To look at the big picture and think of something that will really help students learn something instead of just looking for surface information....thought provoking!

 

I agree about the sections on metaphors and analogies. I don't feel that I have enough information to carry this out effectively with my students. Of course, I think that the procedures they lay out do involve much higher level thinking than my students are comfortable with (maybe if they were older?) I honestly think that the sections on comparing and classifying are ones I would like to try with my Special Ed students next year. The graphic organizers certainly do help!

 

What grades do you teach, divey and MrsC?

 

Just finished with grade 5 (our last day with kids was Thursday). Next year I'll be teaching grade 4-8 Special Ed.

 

Want to go ahead with the second chapter?

 

Daisy, I have the other book and love it.

 

I have used both books as a book study for the past 2 years...

To be honest, they really didn't help me implement like I thought. I have been looking for books with ideas in it, and asking other teachers what they do.

The school I am moving to is expecting me to be an example because of my experience with it, and I am hoping to be one lol!

Any suggestions as to how I can implement what this book teaches?

 

Oh, I'm worried that I should have gotten it. Darn. Maybe I'll use my Barnes & Noble gift certificate.

 

Ive been looking through the book( not the Handbook) and I think there are many useful ways to incorporate the Similarities and Differences strategy into lessons. I came across a Matrix that I think would really help the students organize thier thoughts on paper, which I think is ultimately the goal. I haven't gotten any further. I think the strategies have to be adapted for the grade level of course, but I like the book so far.

 

I think my problem is I lack confidence in ways to plan for more higher order thinking skills. I am going to try to make a conscious effort to focus more on this in my lesson plans. Does anyone have any sample lessons for say second grade they felt were good examples of higher order type activities. I would prefer not to use worksheets ( of course) and I find it so hard to "think out of the box" being a new teacher. Does this make me a bad teacher??

 

Well, I think that sometimes- worksheets are okay. I know that you should not use them all the time, but really- the kids can't make flip books/have plays/work in groups/make models all the time. It just gets to be too much stimulation. Sometimes they want to be on their own, and work out problems. They need to know the basics.

Hopefully this makes sense. I agree with marzano that graphic organizers help the kids see things- but sometimes they need to be on thier own as well.

 

I began using a variety of graphic organizers in my classroom a lot this year (Venn Diagrams and comparison charts were two of them). I found that they really helped my weaker students and those with LDs put their thoughts down on paper in an organized way. I also found that they included more detail. This was usually an individual task (after class and/or partner discussion)--just a variation on the "worksheet".

 

I have found that works really well You can use kidspiration (sp?) to make some wonderful ones. The kids can even use it to make their own

Lakeshore has a nice graphic organizer set that I picked up at their store when I was in Tampa. Hoping that this will help me implement graphic organizers more whole group.

 

I want to get a write on/wipe off set from Really Good Stuff. I think that should make me use them more. I'm switching to readers/writers workshop this year in the hopes of getting my kids less dependent on workbooks.

 

I am a bit behind, i think. I read the first two modules about comparing and classifying, but I haven't tackled the metaphors or analogies yet. I tried to teach metaphors to my 5th graders last year, but it was way beyond them. Either that or I need some help explaining them. Once they seemed to grasp similies I tried to explain that a metaphor was like a similie without the words "like" or "as". We do a lot of work with analogies during the year, but it is definately a workbook/worksheet thing. We work through one kind of relationship at a time and the analogies are missing a word in the second pair or the entire second pair. The students select what they think is correct from four choices given. We don't generally get beyond that and never really have tried making our own. Maybe we should.

I'm going to try to hit Borders or B&N tonight to look for the companion book to the one we're reading now. I agree that this handbook seems like it is missing something-namely details on how to teach these methods of learning. If I'm really lucky I'll find the compainion book at the library.

 

There's another book in the series too, I think it's called curriculum and frameworks for Instruction that Works.

 

I touch on metaphors and similes when we do a poetry unit. The kids like looking for them in poetry books.

 

Maybe the problem is how I explain them. I need to consult my poetry instruction book.

 

I have had some success with students locating metaphors or completing the missing component in an analogy, but I'm not sure they're ready for writing their own (or I'm not ready to teach it!)

 

I have all three books.
Here's my take. Once you use and define metaphors and analogies, the kids will get it. If you continue to provide that background.
I find that the first book is a great book, but not all that easy to implement when you're teaching 7 different subjects. If I just taught literacy, I think it would be easier to implement. Did anyone get that from the books? It seems like the author teaches literacy to me. Some of the ideas are wonderful. What I really got from the first book was that it's okay to spend as much time needed on procedures. Once those procedures are set (the kids have an autonomacy with them) then the learning will take place and catch up. I felt that it was a license for me to actually spend the time on procedures instead of diving in.

Also from the first two books: let the kids create the material with you. I actually first learned this at a workshop that our school has a grant for (can't remember the title right now). Create the material as you go and let the kids have a hand in it. They'll retain it more and longer if you do.

 

I agree Miss W. The ideas are good, but hard to implement as he states if you are teaching more than one subject. I am going to pick and choose the ideas that work for me and see what happens. I don't think any child would grasp analogies and metaphors too quickly, but exposing kids to it over time, they will have an aha moment So, for what it's worth, as with any other book, we will have to adapt to our needs.

 

So, maybe you and Miss W will fill us in on background info that we don't have access to. I can see doing this lessons as mini-lessons.

 

Right Daisy! These are perfect for mini lessons. I was thinking the same thing.

 

I'll read on later - after today's soccer game.

 

I'm with you! Who are you cheering for?

 

I think Italy. You?

 

Germany in this semi (although no strong feelings either way). France for sure in the other--don't like Portugal's tactics.
Just to keep on topic--are we starting with the second section of the book?

 

Ok on to the second section

 

I'll start reading after the game.

 

I found a copy of the Classroom Instruction book at B&N store, but no luck at the library. I found that if I read one module of the book (say classifying) and then the same module in the Handbook things made a lot more sense. I just got through the whole chapter with classifying, metaphors, etc. I'll go up tomorrow before work and do the next section about notetaking and such. I'm NOT buying the book though. Purchasing coffee is much tastier.

 

I'm with you on that one, runs. I have bought quite a few books and don't want to spend much. Maybe I can find it on ebay, though. I agree that the handbook is difficult to use with the original text. I did read through module 2 on summarizing and note-taking. I'm not sure what grades it addresses.

 

It seems most of this info is geared more toward jr. high and high school. I only saw a couple examples for lower elementary, but they seemed like things elem. teachers do already for the most part. I know my 5th graders could never do some of the student-directed activities mentioned.

 

Mine, either. But the book has certainly raised my awareness of a few topics already.

 

Runs you are so funny! You sound just like me with the coffee and yes, I using the books the same way.

 

Any comments?????

 

Haven't finished the second section yet...I have an assignment due in my Special Ed Specialist course tomorrow. I'm hoping to finish the assignment within the next couple of hours (I know, why am I here?) and then I'll finish. I started the first section on summarizing, and did like the framework provided. I know that this is the kind of thing my students always find helpful. More later...

 

Hi, everyone! Johnny come late, here!! Sorry, and so sorry that the book is turning out to be so user UNfriendly. I did find this section to be useful, especially the note taking, but I agree that the examples are definitely not helpful in showing us how to adapt them to younger students. Some of my co-workers attended a workshop on the Step Up to Writing program, and yesterday, one of them spent an afternoon filling me in (Bless Her!!). It is wonderful-have you heard of it? Most of it's strategies are exactly what Marzano is talking about!

It uses the informal outline, but goes further in that you color code everything, using colored dots, highliters, and markers. Green is for your topic sentence, yellow for your facts, red for the details that support the facts.

One strategy for picture books and for just starting out modeling the summarizing and note taking had the students drawing picture on a postette after each section. They would place these postettes vertically on a sheet of paper, then "jot" information beside each visual. You would designate if the "jot" would be one, two, or three words. It reminded me of Marzano's combination notes, which I really liked.

I, also, liked his advice of giving the students teacher prepared notes. In reflecting on this, I am guilty of just assuming the students "know" exactly what I have in mind when I tell them to write a summary or take notes, and then feel such frustration and disappointment when they don't readily produce what I had in mind!

Here is a link to Step Up to Writing. If you explore it some, you will find some excellent examples of the color coding, informal outline, and accordian stretch (which is taking your notes and stretching them into a summary. I am anxious to hear what you all think of this!

http://www.stepuptowriting.com/overview4.htm#