BM accidents in public school PreK

Discussion in 'Preschool' started by tiffharmon2001, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    I have a student who is having accidents almost daily. At least twice a week, it's a BM accident. My policy has always been that I let the kids change themselves if it is a wet accident. I help with zippers, buttons, etc, but that's it. For BM accidents, I call the parents to come deal with it. I do not have the supplies or facilities to take care of that kind of mess.

    This child's mother was very upset when the office called her to come help her son clean up today. Her response was, "I put diaper wipes and a pull up in his backpack."

    I don't think that a child who needs to wear a pull up is ready for public school PreK. If he is not potty trained, he should be in daycare where they have the facilities to work on that.

    What are your policies in public preK for toileting?

    By the way, this child will be 5 in January.
     
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  3. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    I will help a child change, but I agree if he's not toilet trained, he's not ready for school. I would imagine most daycare centers would have issue with it as well because around here daycare centers aren't allowed to put diapered and non-diapered children together.

    Some backsliding is to be expected, in my opinion when a young child starts in a school setting, but for this to be continued so far into the year I wonder.

    Are you reminding him to go to the bathroom at regular intervals? Have you figured out what time he's more likely to have an accident. We try to figure out the pattern of behavior and have the child sit on the toilet at different intervals throughout the day in the hopes that heads off the accident. After about a week it usually works, barring any developmental issues with a child.
     
  4. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Well, I agree. If it is up to you I would give it a few weeks of trying to remind him every hour, talk to him about it, and have the parents working on it at home. Let the parent know that you are going to continue to call her with BM accidents and will give it x amount of time and then they will need to seek care somewhere that can care for children who are not potty trained. I am curious about what you do with students with special needs who have bathroom issues.
     
  5. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    His most likely time to have an accident is right before rest time. We make everyone go just before we go down for rest time. I've tried calling him first, but it doesn't seem to help. From what I understand, he's having accidents at home as well.

    I have everyone go to the bathroom at least 3 times per day. They are allowed to go at other times as well if they need to. This child has NEVER ONCE asked me to go to the bathroom. Also, he has NEVER told me when he's had an accident. We just "discover" it, either by seeing that his pants are wet or by the smell. It doesn't really seem to bother him. When you ask him if he needs to change his clothes, he just smiles (not an embarrassed smile. The look on his face is very mischievous, like he got caught doing something he shouldn't).
    I'm not sure if he doesn't know when he needs to go (although by 4 1/2 I would think he would know) or if he's choosing not to go. It's not happening at a time when he's busy playing at centers or on the playground.

    One of my main issues with helping him change is that he isn't able to clean himself. The first time it happened, my assistant ended up having to go into the restroom with him and physically wipe him up. I am not comfortable with that and neither is she. I do not want to put either of us in a position of being in a closed room with a child who is undressed. And I, personally, wouldn't want my own children to have a teacher alone with them in the restroom. Too many things can be misinterpreted and a 4 year old is not always a reliable source of information. It is not worth my job or my reputation for a child who is not potty trained.
     
  6. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    The only time I have had students with special needs and bathroom issues, they have both had personal assistants with them who took care of that (in fact, they received a stipened for dealing with that issue). In both cases, it was stated in their IEP that toileting was an issue and there was a plan in place for how to handle it.

    If there was a medical issue that I knew about, I might feel differently. As of right now, that is not the case.
     
  7. letsteach

    letsteach Comrade

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    I have had a couple of children who have expected me to clean them as they don't know how to or can't do it themselves. One sat on the toilet, shouting at the top of his voice 'TEACHER, TEACHER' because he needed cleaning. We called his older brother from Grade 5 to help him (apparently his brothers always cleaned him) so it was a talk to the brothers that little buv needs to learn himself and a talk to the child that he's a big boy and can do it himself.

    I did have one little boy who wore pull ups but the pull ups were too tight for him to get down when he needed to go to the bathroom (he left after a few months).

    I did not go to uni to learn how to clean bums, talk to the parent more and check on how she's going with him and the progress he's making. If need be, ask the mum to keep him at home a week to get this right and you'll give her the work he is missing at school. Emphasise to the mother how time consuming it is for you to have to focus on her child, how embarrsing it is for the child himself, how unhygenic it is for the other children (if he touches his pants and then other things - this means alot of cleaning for you and the TA),

    Have a start chart for every day he doesn't soil himself.

    Good luck
     
  8. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

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    Does he come to school wearing a pull up, or does mom just have them in the backpack just in case an accident occurs.

    Is there any chance that there's a developmental delay, or is it a combination of a stubborn child and lazy parenting?
     
  9. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    He does not come in wearing a pull up, but always carries a package in his backpack. He usually also has a change of underwear in there as well.

    I really am not sure if there is a developmental delay or if it's a parenting issue. There are some other things that are not age appropriate-he was eating things like mashed potatoes with his fingers at the very beginning of the year. Now when we have something that requires a spoon, I make sure to remind him to use his. His voice is really babyish as is his speech ("me want to go"). He has a hard time sitting on the rug because he can't keep his hands to himself.
    But, in other ways, he seems fine. He can write and spell his name, name lots of letters, count, large motor skills are good, he seems to play well with the other children.

    I feel like maybe his parents don't understand what is appropriate for a 4 year old's behavior.
     
  10. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

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    I would think that your state preschool or whatever it is has a written policy concerning potty training. If it says your child must be potty trained then you need to follow the policy. Hopefully you are noting the accidents so you can prove why the child needs to be removed until he is trained. You are not being paid to change pants and in this day and age I can understand why you wouldn't want to. Protect yourself and the child should go to daycare until he is ready.
     
  11. mom2alex

    mom2alex Companion

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    We haven't had any bm accidents, but we would expect the child to clean themselves. One of my co-workers had a student in a pull-up and they were told that he could not come to school in the pull-up. All of our county pre-k except sped is in a daycare facility and our students must be potty trained as well. Children in the daycare aren't allowed to leave the 2 1/2 year old room until they are potty trained.
     
  12. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    One of the other things I do with kids like that, when it's almost time for the accident to happen, is to have him go and sit on the toilet. For however long it takes. Not really, but I sometimes send a child into the bathroom with a few books and have them sit in there and tell them it's their job to make sure they poop in the toilet and not in their pants. Usually it's a 3 yr old I'm speaking to, but it works.

    Just a thought....
     
  13. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

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    Have you spoken to your director about this? Does your program have a policy? I am not allowed to go into the bathroom to assist a child. Period, end of discussion. I will button a button, or clasp a belt, if necessary, but that is the extent of it- and I will only do that if a child comes out of the bathroom, pants up, ready to be helped. I simply do not go in the bathroom. (It's not big enough to fit me, anyway! LoL. I tell parents this firmly at open house- I will NOT put myself in a compromised position. Our school policy is if your child is not 100% potty trained, you may not attend.

    I ask every parent to send in a complete change of clothes with their child, and I keep them in the classroom. If there is an occasional accident (which of course, there are!) I bring the child their change of clothes. I put the soiled ones in a plastic bag in the backpack, and send a note home, "Susie had an accident today, here are her wet clothes. Please send in a new change of clothes ASAP." I have (knock wood!) never had a BM accident, but if I did I would definitely be calling parents, just as you have been. Who does this mom think is going to be wiping her son? I wouldn't WANT a teacher wiping my child in pre-k.

    I would double check your policy on this front. Every child is allowed to have an accident, but special needs aside, as a previous poster said- I didn't go to college for 6 years and get a master's degree to wipe bottoms!

    Also, I do have a special needs child who is not potty trained. He has a physical disability that interferes with his ability to go. He has a private nurse that comes with him to school every day and one of her many responsibilities is to take him to the bathroom.
     
  14. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    I would be all for that, IF I was responsible for toilet training him. I am not. The curriculum standards that I am responsible for meeting do not include bathroom skills. I understand that 4 year olds will sometimes have accidents, but not every day or even every other day.
    I do not have a restroom in my classroom. My kids have to go down the hall and we share with first grade (about 100 kids and maybe 1/2 of those are boys). In the boy's restroom, there is only one stall-along with two urinals. For me to occupy the only stall with a potty training child who is just sitting there waiting to see if something will happen would not work out well.
     
  15. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    If there is a child in our program who has a toileting issue, for some reason they always, always end up in my class! I had 2 little girls (different years) who had BM's in their pants EVERY single day of the school year. We cannot call the parents, so had to handle it ourselves. They had to learn pretty quickly how to wipe and clean themselves with my supervision. Both times, I was about crazy by the end of the year. Also, both kids had never ever had a BM on the toilet at home, although they never had accidents with urine. Both also had other issues, especially with expressive language. I often wondered how they made out in kindergarten, and if they ever learned to go in the toilet instead of their pants.
     
  16. Maxadoodle

    Maxadoodle Comrade

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    Perhaps you and the director should have a conference with the parent(s) to help the little boy. Explain that this is not typical five year old behavior, and should be seen by his doctor to rule out underlying medical reasons. Perhaps the doctor can provide suggestions on what to do or where to go. This definitely needs to resolve before kindergarten.
     
  17. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

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    Just curious, why can't you call the parents?
     
  18. Grammy Teacher

    Grammy Teacher Virtuoso

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    Yea us poor old daycare teachers deal with it all. Pee, Poop and Puke, the 3 P's, somebody's gotta do it for the poor little tykes.
     
  19. tracer330

    tracer330 Rookie

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    i work at a child care center teaching pre K; the three year old class has some kids who are still in pull ups and need to be changed from time to time; but they can't come to my class if they're not fully potty trained; some of them have pee pee accidents every now and then and when they do, they all change themselves
     
  20. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    We can't call the parents because it is our responsibility. And also, they won't answer the phone!
     
  21. shellie1619

    shellie1619 Rookie

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    They won't answer the phone:unsure: I hope that you do not ever have to call them with a serious situation.
     
  22. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    He managed to make it through today without a BM accident, but he did wet his pants. This week only he has had some sort of accident 3 out of 4 days so far. IMO, that is NOT fully potty trained.

    I have not been able to catch the P to ask his opinion on this issue. I'm just thankful that we didn't have to deal with it today.
     
  23. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Are you in a public school PreK, a private school, or a childcare center? I can't imagine in a public school that toileting would be the teacher's responisbility.

    I do understand about parents not answering the phone, though. We get that all time time (if we have a working number at all). Thank goodness we have never had a true emergency where we couldn't contact the parents.
     
  24. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    I think day care and young elementary teachers do a great job!! I know I could never do the 3 P's which I guess is why I teach high school!

    Seriously, as a parent when my kids were little, it was understood that they had to be totally potty trained before they could start preschool. An accident once in a while was ok but never for a BM unless they were sick and then they got sent home. As a teacher and an aide in a classroom, you do not have enough personnel to clean up kids. They do it in day care but their classes are much smaller and you pay for it.
     
  25. moonbeamsinajar

    moonbeamsinajar Habitué

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    Yes, we have had serious situations, and were unable to get any of the parents or 3 emergency contacts. It is a frequent occurance. Often, we will try 5 different numbers, and all will be disconnected or out of service. And some parents will drop their kids off at school sick, and then go shopping, knowing their phone is off so we can't reach them. Or no one is there to meet the bus after school, so the bus drives them back to the center, where we try to find someone on the form who is willing to drive down and pick them up. These are 4 year olds, for goodness sakes!
     
  26. TeacherGrl7

    TeacherGrl7 Devotee

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    Those are the kids you just want to hug. Poor things! I can't imagine being 4 years old and sick and left behind by my mom.
     
  27. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    You know, it almost sounds to me like this child has some sort of developmental issues. Kids his age shouldn't be doing that much on a regular basis.
     
  28. Rebecca1122

    Rebecca1122 Comrade

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    When I worked in a private preschool we also had a girl with this same problem. She had accidents almost every day, and even multiple times a day. BM too. At a private preschool it IS our or an assistant's responsiblity to help clean up if needed. She too didn't care if she went in her pants, we had to notice it. We eventually started a big chart/reward system with her and parents cooperated so she got rewards at home when she had a day with no accidents. This seemed to help (system was only in place about a month before they left the school). But I totally understand where you are coming from! It is SO frustrating because no matter how close you try and monitor the situation it still happens. This child also had some mild emotional issues, which were also worked on through her chart. Maybe there is a developmental connection? Does your student have any other issues?
     
  29. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    I've always skipped over these threads because this was never an issue for me. It is now. I have a 4 year old girl who has had 4 BMs this week! :eek: She has been in school for a month and this just started. We are a private parochial Pre-K. My handbook says children must be potty trained.

    Yesterday, we changed her twice. She doesn't say she needs to go, or tell us after she goes.....we smell it. She still has BMs when we send her to the bathroom on a regular basis.

    She cannot clean herself and we are not equipt to clean and change her. I spoke with mom about it earlier this week. I call mom today after the BM

    The girl is going to the MD tomorrow. If things check out okay with the doctor, she will be going to a counselor.

    I think I will meet with the mom after the MD meeting to develop a plan.

    I've had more "accidents" this month, than I have in all my other years teaching combined. :dizzy:
     
  30. shellie1619

    shellie1619 Rookie

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    At least the mother is willing to take her to the MD and then to a counselor, that is a step in the right direction :thumb:
     
  31. kimrandy1

    kimrandy1 Enthusiast

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    I have the same situation going on right now. This is what I found out:

    We are unable to change a child's clothing or to help him/her clean up in any way. The school system's insurance does not cover us in that capacity, unless we have specialized diapering training (which classroom teachers, as a rule, do not have). If a child claims we touched him/her inappropriately during a clothing change, we cannot get legal coverage through our school system or via the union. In addition, because we are a regular ed school, we do not have appropriate diapering facilities that are private and accessible. Special ed centers and daycare facilities do have that type of equipment. And, on a health viewpoint, the classrooms do not have diaper or pull-up disposal areas that keep bodily waste seperate from other trash, and away from kids who may touch the regular garbage can. Daycare centers/special ed sites do.

    Therefore, kids in public school PreK are expected to be completely toilet trained, period. 3 or more accidents of any kind, in one week, wet or soiled, is considered not potty trained. If a child is not potty trained because of a physical issue or a disability of any sort, the school system provides an aide that has the training to be able to diaper and change a child. And the school has to designate a private and accessible changing area, and there has to be another adult watching the change at all times.

    So, in my case, the child who is not potty trained was asked to stay home from school for a period of 3 weeks, with the understanding that, in that time, the parents would work hard to train him, and would consult with his pediatrician about possible causes for the delay in training. His spot in PreK would be held, and the absences won't count against him in any way. He is not to return until he is completely independent in the bathroom. If, after 3 weeks, he is still not independent in the bathroom, the psychologist will add the family to her caseload, and will work with them on appropriate training techniques for another 3 weeks. After that, he loses his spot in PreK if he cannot yet return.

    Kim
     
  32. scmom

    scmom Enthusiast

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    It sounds like your school has a good policy and system in place. You are a good model for schools that don't.
     
  33. KarenPreK

    KarenPreK Companion

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    I work in a private Pre-K also, but we are not allowed to change a child, clean a child, or help them in the bathroom at all. If they are wet, they change themselves. If they have a BM, the parent is called to come clean them up. If it happens too often, the parent is required to keep the child home for a week to practice potty training. They can return after the week if they are trained.
     
  34. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

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    Today, he wet is pants early in the morning, less than 30 minutes after he had just gone to the bathroom (because I made him go, not because he went on his own). A couple of hours later, he had a BM accident again. He didn't tell me, I discovered it by the smell. I had the secretary call mom to change him. They said she was not happy, but didn't say anything.

    I still haven't been able to catch the P or AP to talk to them about it. I'm going to send an e-mail tonight to make sure they come see me on Monday. I don't usually see the mom because she drops him off early at Walk and Talk and he goes to daycare after school. I would like to call her, but I'm going to wait until I have an official word from the P about what the policy is.

    This is getting old REALLY fast.
     
  35. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

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    I have at least one child at the beginning of every year that isn't potty trained. In mid August we started this school year with 5 children in my classroom who were not potty trained when they started. Even though the parents claimed they were potty trained, all 5 showed up on the first day wearing pull-ups and diapers. I had a little boy pee on himself 6 times in one day. Because we would not allow them to wear pull-ups and diapers at school, and we worked with them on potty training I'm relieved to say that all 5 were fully potty trained by the end of September.
     
  36. Rebecca1122

    Rebecca1122 Comrade

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    Sorry meant to say at MY private preschool, not generalize to all private schools. Maybe because we offer extended care outside of normal preschool (open 7-6), this is why we need to do that? Does your center have extended care so that it can become more of a daycare situation for some children?
     
  37. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    So, when he has a BM, is he sent to the office to wait for mom while he has soiled pants?
    Don't students have to be potty-trained before coming to school?

    I'm with you...it is getting old.
     
  38. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    I feel ( and smell) your pain. Our student had BMs every day but today. Mom set up a reward chart for poops in the toilet. (The girl announced it during snack. :haha:) When they arrived this morning Mom took the girl into the bathroom for a while. The girl had a BM. They went to the MD this afteroon.

    It was such a relief not to have to deal with poop today!
     
  39. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    Oct 5, 2009

    Just a follow up on my Poopoo issues. My student went to the MD Friday. He said she was constipated with impacted areas of her bowels. BM would back up behind the impacted areas and the girl would have no control. She was prescribed a laxative and had a bad weekend, accident-wise. Mom said she would be on low doses of the laxative for a while.


    While she had no accident today...another boy wet his pants (sigh) :(
     
  40. TeacherSandra

    TeacherSandra Enthusiast

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    Oct 6, 2009

    :(
    Hugs for you, Dzenna. :hugs:
    And prayers for your students. :love:
     
  41. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

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    Thanks Sandra. Today was a poo-pee free day! :thumb:
     

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