Beginning, average, and highest possible teacher salary in Chicago?

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by lovebeingteach, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. lovebeingteach

    lovebeingteach Companion

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    What are they? Just wondering. I heard from a friend today that the average salary was $70,000/year. If this is the case, I don't even make half of that. Just wanted to get the correct figures.

    I know the strike isn't ALL about pay, but I was just wondering what the pay is.

    Also, I heard they received a 16% raise. If this is true, I am amazed. We got a measly 1.2% last year, after no raise/step increase in 5 years.

    Please inform me.
     
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  3. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    The average is $70,000 + $15,000 in benefits. Median wage is Chicago is 47k a year.

    They work 7 hour days.

    The strike HAS to be only about pay unless they are violating Illinois law.

    They received a massive raise over the last four years and were offered 16% for the next four which they rejected.

    This is all in today's Wall Street Journal.
     
  4. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    I'm sorry, I'm no expert, but while technically the strike is about wages, it is in truth about much, much more, mostly student safety and learning concerns. Also, while I don't make near that much per year, I also do not live in Chicago, where the cost of living is more than twice what it is where I live. Please do not just look at the numbers without taking other information into account. The Chicago teachers I know are all very concerned, caring, excellent teachers who deserve to be thought of better than that.
     
  5. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I don't understand why teachers who make less/work more hours/have fewer benefits/ect. feel the need to use these things as a reason to dismiss CPS' Teachers rights to strike. As if to say, "they don't have it so bad so they shouldn't complain."

    If it really bothers you that much, go teach in Chicago so you can make more money/work fewer hours/get more benefits. Or go work in a district with a strong union.

    I stand by CTU and CPS' Teachers.:clap::clap::clap:
     
  6. lovebeingteach

    lovebeingteach Companion

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    I am not saying I am against them. I just wanted the facts.
     
  7. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

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    From my understanding, the 16% is spread out over several years and the teachers are being required to work longer days in exchange. Regardless of amount, any job that requires longer hours should receive more pay at an equal rate. If you were a cashier at Wal-Mart and were told you had to work more hours but would only be paid for the old amount of hours, would that be fair? Why any different for teachers?
     
  8. teresateaches

    teresateaches Companion

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    Not to mention, that the cost of living in Chicago is FAR higher than most other places in the country.

    They are dealing with some of the most violent schools in the entire country. I've worked in inner city schools that were TOUGH but were suburban schools in comparison. Have you seen the drop out or violence rates in Chicago schools? These teachers are amazing. I don't care how long their day is or how much they make. I don't care that they make more than me because the cost of raising a family there is exorbitantly higher than my cost of living. Let's be sure to look at their income in the contest of their COL. And let's remember, there are not many teachers in this country who would do what they do.

    Those are the facts.
     
  9. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

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    That's not even a good deal. Any employer who makes an employee work more and offers more money in return is not doing any favors, they're just paying the employee what they deserve. Do these people think teachers are stupid for thinking they got something?

    ??
     
  10. chicagoturtle

    chicagoturtle Fanatic

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    Sep 11, 2012

    Thank you all for the love to those who have shared love.

    I am looking for an article I found that showed the salary in a different light than the 70,000 being portrayed all over the media.

    I can't find it at the moment. It was an article linked through someone's facebook page- but facbook is so loaded with events from the last few days I cannot find it.

    Thanks to you who understand what this fight is for too :). I've been up since 4:00. Gotta go to bed.

    Solidarity!
     
  11. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    You "don't understand" really? Then you need a little perspective yourself, a little compassion. The reported average CPS teacher salary is $70k+. The reported offered pay raise is 14-16%. In this economy, where people are hurting... that looks bad. Couple that with how they also continue to push for a tenure-based (i.e. seniority) system. To a teacher in North Carolina who's barely making $30k, or a teacher in CPS making $10k as a sub teacher because she can't find a job teaching, it's not as cut-n-dried as you want to make it seem.
     
  12. McParadigm

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    It's worth noting the renewed "teacher's unions are a disgrace" groundswell going on right now, which I think is easily as worthy of our time and discussion as the bullet points laid out by the CTU. Going back and forth with someone I know (who is a CPA), I thought this part was worth sharing:

     
  13. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    Excellent post!
     
  14. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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  15. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    I think you are right, but then: Can you not say that teachers haven't effectively wielded this thing (tenure)? Academic tenure = academic freedom. What you're saying is that great teachers are shackled by a bad system... which I would tend to agree with (though I don't think most teachers currently in the system are "great"). But if that's the case: Can you say that the teachers have been asleep at the wheel, in letting things down the pipeline that shouldn't have been? Because let's me and you be honest: "Tenure" in K-12 public education, is not wielded for any real purpose other than job security/salary (i.e. seniority). Teachers don't put their tenure to use in way of education reform. It's used as a security blanket. But the security is simply for salary/personal beef considerations.
     
  16. mrsenglish

    mrsenglish Rookie

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    Yes, and the cost of living in North Carolina is significantly less than in Chicago. It's all about perspective.
     
  17. ecteach

    ecteach Devotee

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    Not necessarily. In Raleigh/Cary/Chapel Hill (all areas near me) it's very expensive to live. The teachers still start out at roughly $30,000. I do think they get a 13% supplement though....so they technically make about $34,000/year.
     
  18. teresateaches

    teresateaches Companion

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    Chicago is the third most expensive city in the country. If I were to move there from Richmond, my housing alone would rise 41% according to a CNN calculator I found. Even those "big" cities you listed, do not come close to the same cost of living as Chicago. They are still medium size metropolitan areas. Not major mega-metropolises like NYC or LA. You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare Raleigh and Chicago.

    According to the same calculator, if you move from Raleigh to Chicago, your housing goes up 68% !!!!!!!!!!! Groceries go up 13%. Transportation goes up 19%. So yes, $70000 in Chicago doesn't go as far.

    And can we please remember that 70k is the average
    which means there are plenty of teachers making less.

    And out of ALL the detractors here....which ones of you are volunteering to go work in Chicago public schools? Quite likely THE MOST VIOLENT system in the country. They have roughly two gun shot injuries a day. Over 700 kids were hit by gunfire last year.

    So, which ones of you are willing to move to Chicago and work in these schools? Give up your cushy suburban schools with no issues. Or even give up your moderately dangerous inner city schools in low income areas of smaller cities?


    http://www.wbez.org/story/around-nation/2011-03-20/chicagos-schools-police-work-stem-violence-84000

    http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...th-Violence-Public-Schools-and-Public-Health/

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...cps-students-students-shot-safe-haven-program

    Pair this with the lack of resources and the new policies that seek to judge teachers based on student performance, as much as 40% in some states and I would be striking as well (if I lived in a union state.) :help:
     
  19. teresateaches

    teresateaches Companion

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    The raise is over 4 years. Can we stop listening to all the crap the media is spewing?
     
  20. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    The fact that many teachers are underpaid really shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not more fairly compensated teachers get scheduled raises, etc.
     
  21. teresateaches

    teresateaches Companion

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    Sep 12, 2012

    YES
     
  22. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    To you, it's not cut and dry. To me, it is. I do not make $70K either but I do work in a large urban, inner-city district that is the lowest performing in my state. I am sure I understand many of the frustrations and concerns CPS' teachers are feeling and I support them in their efforts to improve things.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY: CTU has the right to strike. Period.

    I, and the Baltimore City Teachers Union (BTU), stand by the CTU and CPS' Teachers.
     
  23. MsMar

    MsMar Fanatic

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    AGREE!!
     
  24. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    One should note that a significant difference between Chicago teachers and teachers in other urban districts is that Chicago teachers must live in the city. They do not have the option of moving to the suburbs, where housing costs are substantially lower. I also taught in a very high cost of living urban school. If I was forced to live within the city boundaries, there's no way I would have been able to pay for housing on my salary.
     
  25. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    My 1BR apartment + utilities is $1300/mo. $200 car payment. $220 student loan payment. $120 cell phone payment. $160 in gas every month for my lovely commute. $400 food and groceries.

    Minimally I need about $2500 a month without any "fun" money. Admittedly, I could probably get rid of my phone....but I need all those other things.

    Gas is $4.50 a gallon. Milk is $3.00 a gallon. Things are expensive here!
     
  26. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    Exactly! Chances are if you're making significantly less, you're paying significantly less in taxes, rent, mortgage or whatever else.
     
  27. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    The median wage in Chicago is 47k for all people. Explain how that 70k looks so paltry now.

    You're right, they have the right to strike. That doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
     
  28. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Off topic, but, how the heck...I have a 120 mile commute (3-4hr rt depending on traffic), and it costs me about $15-20/day, give or take (depending on how long I just sit in traffic). How long is your commute? That amount on gas seems like insanity (gas is ~$4/gal here).
     
  29. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    I wonder how the WSJ arrived at these figures: whether these are the salaries for all and only certificated personnel in the classroom or what. Taking the sum of the salaries on the link that FourSquare posted and dividing by the number of positions isn't going to be realistic, because a hefty number of those are administrators, district counsel, and the like.
     
  30. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    One of the classic errors in statistical inference is trying to make comparisons using two different measures. Mean and median, while both measures of central tendency, are completely different and mean nothing in a side by side comparison. Beyond that, the median wage in the entire city includes unskilled labor and part time employees, hardly comparable to a college educated professional working full time.
     
  31. teresateaches

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    Are we really so jealous that there are teachers in this country being adequately compensated? If we were actually compensated adequately, would we be so quick with our insults? :whistle:

    Also, have you done any research in to the number of people in Chicago living under the poverty line? 31% of children are living in poverty in 2011 according to census data. In the city of Chicago, 21% of families are below the poverty line between 2006-2010 according to the census. This numbers are staggering and are well above the national average and even almost 10 points above the state average. So, yes, teachers are being paid more than the median income for the city proper, but they are being paid in line with their cost of living, education and value. Something I wish my school district would consider.

    Edited to add: And as the previous poster said, these numbers take in to account all wages, not just full time college educated/graduates working in professional positions.

    There strike IS the right thing because had you taken any time at all to read their demands, you would stop focusing on the income portion and focus on the demands they are setting forth to help the children.
     
  32. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I decided to move to a neighborhood where my daughter can be safe and attend a good school keeping in mind that Chicago has many "affordable-not-safe" neighborhoods. Here's what we pay for that:

    Mortage - $3000
    Real State Taxes - $8,000 (a year)
    Bills - $1000 a month

    Gas for 2 - $100 (weekly)

    Let's not even forget that we have a reputation of having one of the highest gas prices in the US.

    The cost of living here in Chicago is high so the CPS salaries cannot be enough to afford a decent living for a family in a nice neighborhood.
     
  33. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    That is a good point, TG.

    Some teachers in my district make $70-90k a year, but in my department at least almost all of us are fairly new teachers (less than 10 yrs; many less than 5). That means most of us make less than $55k in a very high cost area.

    For reference, this is roughly equal to $35k on a COL basis in another area of my state. Those areas tend to pay anywhere from $33k-36k.
     
  34. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    Exactly WHERE are the insults? Since when is it an insult to question something? That's all that's happened here as far as I can see. Isn't that what WE are supposed to be creating--students who can think critically? For my part, I never said I was against this strike per se. All I said was that it looked bad (when people see that level of income, and turning down of a raise) to the general public and possibly many other teachers around the country.

    As to your last comment (if people would take time to read the demands, they would see that it's not about the money... paraphrasing): Are you trying to tell us that the focus of this strike is over classroom protocol/curriculum, and not the money? Get real.
     
  35. teresateaches

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    Have you read the links listing the issues?

    The insults are saying that they did the wrong thing and you implied it was "all over money". Sure, question. Think critically. Have at it.

    I would rather create critical thinkers who aren't afraid to stand up for what they believe in and stand up for themselves.

    http://www.ctunet.com/delegates/contract-action-teams

    All this and all you see is salary? How about air conditioning for when the rooms hit 100 degrees? Smaller class sizes? More social workers and counselors in one of the most violent districts in the country? Nope. All salary? Please.
     
  36. FourSquare

    FourSquare Fanatic

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    *DOH* I meant every month. Sorry. Sleepy brain. :dizzy:
     
  37. John Lee

    John Lee Groupie

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    I'm not implying anything. The fact that it's a strike implies (strongly) money. Unless you can cite me from history where a strike happened over air-conditioning.

    Or better yet, cite me an instance where money wasn't a central issue to a strike. (I'm seriously asking. I'm not versed on labor issues, so maybe there is a history of strikes over non-financial reasons.)

    By the way, I still don't quite understand what you are saying about the insults. Are you saying it's an insult in people saying the teachers are wrong in this case? That's the insult? If that's your position... hey, stick with it. At least it clearly shows where you are coming from.
     
  38. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    All I can say is that if I taught in Chicago, I'd make about 20k a year more than I do in CALIFORNIA and pay about 10% less for a house.

    California politicians had better well STOP complaining that my high pay is the cause for our state's budget woes.
     
  39. EMonkey

    EMonkey Connoisseur

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    The district I work for went on strike due to a imposed contract. It wasn't a long strike; but money had nothing to do with the strike.
     
  40. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    The vast majority of strikes have centered at least as much on working conditions, including workplace safety and hours. Here's a selection:

    http://www.history.com/topics/strikes: "The most popular strike demands have historically been higher wages, shorter hours or safer working conditions."

    http://edsitement.neh.gov/lesson-plan/industrial-age-america-sweatshops-steel-mills-and-factories: "About a century has passed since the events at the center of this lesson—the Haymarket Affair, the Homestead Strike, and the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire. For some people in our nation, these incidents illustrated the unfair conditions faced by workers as the United States assumed its position as the most highly industrialized nation in the world. For others, they demonstrated the difficulty of managing industries. Such disagreements continue to this day. Where do we draw the line between acceptable business practices and unacceptable working conditions? Can an industrial—and indeed a post-industrial—economy succeed without taking advantage of those who do the work?"

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/hoover-workers-strike/, on the strike by workers building Boulder (Hoover) Dam: "Workers decided that the time was ripe, not just to protest the pay cut, but to list their grievances and issue demands. Among them: that clean water and flush toilets be provided, that ice water be readily available to workers, and that Six Companies obey all mining laws issued by the States of Nevada and Arizona."

    The strike and boycott of table grapes (1966) initiated by Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers was in part over the need to be protected from pesticides in the fields, the need to have access to water and toilets, and the need to stop requiring the use of short-handled hoes, which are a good deal harder on one's back than one might think.

    There are more...
     
  41. Prekrocks

    Prekrocks New Member

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    It is more than salary! They need major building updates; more social workers, etc. A MAJOR issue is teacher evaluation based on standardized test scores. That is an issue we all need to think about!
     
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