Banned Books list?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mrs. Q, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. Mrs. Q

    Mrs. Q Cohort

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    Is there somewhere that publishes an 'official' list of banned books for certain locations?

    My niece is a high school senior in AP English in my hometown and needed to read a novel for a research paper. I suggested "Catcher in the Rye" which I myself did a report on in that very school about 6 years ago.

    Her teacher said that the novel is banned in the state of Texas and that she's not allowed to read it as any part of a school project.

    I was a little embarrassed as I am a preservice teacher, and felt like I should know such things. But I went online and I can't even find a list - everything seems to imply that it's up to the district, NOT the state. So how does one go about finding the official list, and staying current on such things??
     
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  3. Mrs. R.

    Mrs. R. Connoisseur

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    The best place would probably be the American Library association, or for state specific information they probably have a state library association. You could also call your local library and ask to speak to someone at the reference desk. Librarians are a wealth of information when it comes to things like this.
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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  5. Mrs. Q

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    I read that and Catcher in the Rye is not listed. ??

    Although several other really great books are, and that disappoints me. And some of the reasons given are just ridiculous!
     
  6. runsw/scissors

    runsw/scissors Phenom

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    Very sad. :( Some of the books I can understand being pulled, but others....why Captain Underpants? It's stupid bathroom humor, but it's innocent (sort of.)
     
  7. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    I am horrified that any of these books are banned.
     
  8. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    There are a couple of books on there that we were required to read in HS for credit. How sad!
     
  9. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Oh my goodness. Let me say that unlike many people I do happen to believe that there are some books that shouldn't be in schools - place them in the public library and students can choose to read them if they desire - but I am stunned at some of the books on this list. To Kill A Mockingbird, A Prayer for Owen Meany, A Series of Unfortunate Events, The Color Purple...I could go on and on. :(
     
  10. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Not to mention the Grapes of Wrath.
     
  11. raneydae

    raneydae Companion

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    To Kill a Mockingbird was on there? I grew up in Texas schools and was required to read it one year. I mean, I did graduate 9 years ago though...maybe things have changed??
     
  12. raneydae

    raneydae Companion

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    Oh wait, not all of those books are banned. Some are just restricted to certain age levels, or taken off class reading lists (though not banned if a child wants to do a book report on them).

    I do feel like Catcher in the Rye might be banned though. The only reason I knew of it in high school is because I knew it wasn't allowed to be read in schools anymore. But you're right, I didn't see it on the list...
     
  13. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Books that have been banned aren't necessarily banned. School districts or individual schools can decide to include or exclude a book depending on many factors. Many, many schools allow AP classes to include books that are banned from other students because they feel that AP students are more mature and because many of the books are part of the AP test. Also, a school district may feel that Harry Potter books are ok for jh and hs, but not for elementary. Many books are deemed inappropriate (for good and not so good reasons) by teachers and librarians and just not purchased/included in a syllabus. The term banned doesn't really come into play unless the book was once included and is removed or is disallowed as part of a paper. I was shocked that a book was being banned from a HS senior in an AP class. Presumably they are going to college in less than a year where they will be required to read books that go far beyond anything in Catcher in the Rye. If we aren't teaching them to read critically, no matter the subject matter, what are we teaching them? :soapbox:
     
  14. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Lemme squeeze on that soapbox with you :D
     
  15. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    The list reminded me of some books I've always wanted to read :p.
    I also agree that we have to be responsible in our choices and consider age and maturity level. I was an avid reader as a kid and I can still remember my 7th Grade teacher asking me if my mother knew I was reading "Carrie" by Stephen King. She's the one who gave me the book, I was mature enough to handle it.

    I also own a t-shirt that says "I read banned books" and has a list on the back of books banned over the years "Little Red Riding Hood" was banned in the 1800's. I do think some groups jump on trying to get something banned just for headlines sake. I also believe making a big deal out of a book makes it more appealing to the kids. Maybe we should ban more books - kids might read more ;) .
     
  16. Mrs. Q

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    Very interesting.

    I have to admit I'm still a little confused as to my niece's situation. Her class is actually not only AP but is a dual-credit class through a local community college.

    The teacher who told her the book is banned statewide was also my AP English teacher and a bit of a mentor to me. I think I will ask her about it the next time I see her... Since "banned" seems to mean so many different things, and seems that it's ultimately a district-level occurance, I'm interested to hear what she has to say on it.

    I will let you guys know if I find out more specifics. :)
     
  17. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Could your niece ask for a list of the prohibited books 'so she can avoid choosing one again'...It might be interesting to see what the answer to that question would be...
     
  18. Mrs. Q

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    That's a good idea! I will suggest that to her. :)
     
  19. silverspoon65

    silverspoon65 Enthusiast

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    This is a timely post, because it is Banned Book Week!

    Ask your librarian for more information - Mine gave me a snazzy button to wear today.
     
  20. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Ohhhhhh, I want one of those buttons....can you squeeze one through the internet lines????
     
  21. TemperanceFaith

    TemperanceFaith Comrade

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    All I can say is I would not last a day in Texas, particularly in the teaching profession. Not a single day.

    What a waste. :(
     
  22. raneydae

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    Hey - Texas is a cool place - don't judge the entire state by this almost 3 yr. old list that doesn't even list "banned" books, so much as "challenged" books! :) And any student can still read whatever they want - these are just books that aren't required reading in those specific public school districts. No matter what state you're in, districts still have to deal with groups of parents who feel certain things are/are not appropriate.

    I'm sorry - I just have to stand up for my home state! So, for the record, everyone - I LOVE Texas and would rather be teaching there than in Los Angeles. :)
     
  23. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Every state probably has a similar list. I know there was a huge ado here a couple years ago about a particular book in a kids travel series. Around here, if you say anything about Cuba except for what a horrible place it it, you get the exile community up in arms, and this book didn't mention anything about the political climate, just an appropriate history for a 1-3grader with some mention of the geography and famous landmarks. The book was pulled from library shelves, yet sales of the book went through the roof. Hey, maybe we should ban MORE books...that way people would read them to find out what all the fuss is about.
     
  24. dumbdiety

    dumbdiety Comrade

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    http://www.aclutx.org/files/Free%20People%20Read%20Freely%202008.pdf
    Here's the updated list for 2008 for Texas. :)
    I sooooo couldn't teach there. Because of Winn-Dixie is on the list!

    On a tangent, I had a parent two years ago that demanded (!) that I remove Harry Potter, Chronicles of Narnia and ANY fantasy books from my classroom library because her daughter was not allowed to read them. I almost laughed in her face (not a smart thing for a student teacher) and told her I'd make sure her daughter didn't read them, but there was no way they'd be removed. She kept at it until I handed her transfer papers and told her such-and-such teacher didn't have much of a classroom library.
    Again, not a smart thing to do for a student teacher, but I somehow survived it... :D
     
  25. TemperanceFaith

    TemperanceFaith Comrade

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    I appreciate that you love your state, and I am sure it is a great place to live for many reasons. I have friends that live there who love it.

    But censorship is something I can't stomach, and I would have a tough time administratively as a teacher there, because I know me and I would be pushing the envelope every chance I got.

    How does one ban Judy Blume, one of the greatest authors ever?

    I live in a tough district that beats to its own drummer, but they have every one of those books in their library on that list. I praised the librarian and she said that she gets the occasional parent complaining but she tells that parent "I will put your child on the no-read list and make sure they do not check that book out, but I will not take it off my shelves" THAT is the only fair way to handle this.
     
  26. TemperanceFaith

    TemperanceFaith Comrade

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    I don't get some of the choices on that list, not at all. :( Eric Carle? Really? Kay Thompson???? I'm not even touching Because of Winn Dixie. Both of my older two read that book and it is a personal favorite.

    I just don't get the control aspect. I never will. Yes, all those Judy Blume books made me into a heathen, better ban them. Oh, and god forbid I read books about racism and get ideas and stuff. :rolleyes:

    It makes me sick.
     
  27. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Those who do not know their history are condenmed to repeat it.....

    I don't get it either.
     
  28. Lives4Math

    Lives4Math Comrade

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    Wow...I think I need to talk to my librarian! We do "drop everything and read" every Friday during one of our blocks (it's a remediation/review block)...my kids are having a hard time time reading the whole time (it ends up being over an hour) so I was going to read to them for 20-30 mintues of the time....I think I need to double check with the librarian and make sure the books I want to read to them are "acceptable"! The Giver is my number 1 choice...but I see that is on one of the lists I found.....also called "the suicide book". I never thought of it that way......and didn't read the book until I was 18 or 19 and in college (in my children's lit. class).
     
  29. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    I knew there was a reason I liked you. Even though you worry too much. :)

    Just make sure it's not "Reading Master III" -- also on the list of restricted books...
     
  30. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Get those flamethrowers ready!!!

    I'm not a big fan of censorship.

    But it doesn't seem to me that that's what we're talking about.

    It seems to me that we're talking about a community refusing to put a book it deems objectionable into a school library. Not a public library, a school library. So the kids still have access to the book, just not in school. They can get it at Barnes and Noble, at amazon.com or at the public library. They can still read whatever they want. The difference is that there's someone trying to ensure that something "objectionable" isn't in the hands of someone too young.

    While I most certainly wouldn't classify some of those books as objectionable, their presence on such a list would have me reading them before my kids, should an interest be expressed. My kids would still have the option of reading them, if I were OK with the content.

    How is this different from placing an "R" rating on a movie or a video game? In fact, isn't it less restrictive, since the kids still have access to the reading material outside of school???

    There are certainly enough wonderful works of literature, both classic and contemporary, that a teacher could teach almost any theme he or she wanted to, without using the books on that list.
     
  31. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    This discussion reminds me of one that we had at my school at the end of June last year. One of our very experienced teachers was moving from ESL into a grade 7/8 homeroom. In preparation, she began to read the books we have in the bookroom (literature circle sets) for the grade 7 and 8s. We ended up pulling some books from the bookroom (not the library) because the content was considered too mature (blatant sexual references, gratuitous profanity, etc.) for this age group. Some of us felt that, as educators, assigning books to read that discussed sexual exploration between 12 year olds, in some way condoned the activity. We also felt that there is much better literature out there and that some books are much better left for outside of our assigned reading.

    I struggled with this, as I too am opposed to censorship. In the end, though, it all comes down to the appropriateness of the material in the formal school setting (in our case, elementary school--12 and 13 year olds). What bothered me the most about the whole situation was that the teacher who initiated this was the first staff member to read the books--they were purchased because someone had read that they were "good" and had been used in classrooms where teachers had no idea of their content (even after they had been studied by the students!)
     
  32. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    Alice...there's two different issues here. The issue of selecting appropriate books for specific ages is, in my opinion, a non-issue. Of course we have the responsibility to ensure the books available in our elementary school libraries are appropriate for kids that age. The other issue is banning books from the high school kids. Removing books such as "the grapes of wrath" because they deal with very real human issues such as violence and sexuality from high school libraries is insane.
     
  33. TemperanceFaith

    TemperanceFaith Comrade

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    But in the end, it should be AT THE INDIVIDUAL DISCRETION OF THE PARENTS. Period. I do not want any entity deciding what myself or my children are permitted to read or be exposed to. Everyone's moral compass is different. I therefore think banning any literature based on one entity's personal doctrine IS censorship, even if that entity is a school library.

    It really comes down to common sense. MOST, and I stress the MOST here, teachers should know what sort of book is appropriate for which age group. I realize this can vary widely with students, for example, I was reading at an adult level in 4th grade, and my parents gave me a lot of leeway as far as content, though nothing sexual was permitted, I read To Kill A Mockingbird and some others on the list at that age.

    It's better to allow the parents to set the guidelines, imo. If you do not want your children listening to explicit lyrics, reading certain literature or watching content you consider inappropriate, then it is NOT the school district's job to police that content, nor is it the state's or the federal government's. Period. That is how I see things, and maybe it might be unpopular, but if you are going to be a responsible member of society, you should really be able to control the content you are exposed to without someone else setting the bar.
     
  34. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Isn't that exactly what these communities are doing?? They're not national guidelines. They're rules being imposed by local school communities, based on the sensiblities of those local communities.

    Again-- the kids DO have access to these books. They're just not being taught as part of the curriculum. They're still in the public libraries, at Barnes and Noble, on the internet.

    They're just not part of the school day, based on the sensiblities of the people in those communites. Sensibilities which are obviously different from yours (or mine either for that matter.) But, nonetheless, those books are not in the school libraries because the people of that community deem them unfit to be taught to the kids in those schools.

    I'm not sure that we, as a national community, have the right to override the wishes of that local community.
     
  35. TemperanceFaith

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    They are doing it on a grander scale, not on an individual basis, which makes it censorship. If I want to censor my child's literature, I am certainly not going to force my neighbor's kids to conform to my idealogy, and I have issues with others likewise doing the same for me.

    I have no issue with my children learning about the world, and that includes exposure to different cultures, lifestyles, racism, sexism, religions, etc... They are going to make their own way into the world, so I would be doing an injustice as a mother if I did not allow them exposure to all parts of it, both good and bad. If I only give them a small miopic picture of what I think the world should be or is, how in the world am I going to create empathetic, thinking, caring individuals?

    Books are a major part of that education, and maybe I Know Why The Cage Bird Sings might not be something you feel comfortable sharing with your child, my children will be reading it, and thankfully within their classroom.
     
  36. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    No ire here, I just disagree.

    It seems a lot of these are based on "parent complaints", but it doesn't indicate how many parents. I suspect in many cases it's relatively few, and I don't think it really means the community as a whole decided the book was inappropriate.

    I would add that a number of these books were banned for "paganism" and a couple for "atheism". Well, pagans do exist, as do atheists. Those parents might object privately to the banning, but feel constrained from doing so publicly for various reasons. Imagine if The Polar Express were banned for "Christianity".

    It's not really the same as if the librarian simply never decided to buy the book, since the book is already bought and paid for with taxpayer money. Public funds go into supporting the library and its book purchases.
     
  37. TemperanceFaith

    TemperanceFaith Comrade

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    THAT is a very scary statement. What people? Who? Based on whose idealogy and morals? How do you not see that as censorship?


    Last year in NJ, a book was presented in a district whose subject matter was families. One of the parts of the book dealt with same gender parents. Some parents in the community had a huge issue with their children being exposed to same gender relationships. But the fact is, same gender parents are a way of life now, whether they conform to your personal beliefs or not. I would rather be able to discuss this with my children and explain this lifestyle choice to them in an unbiased way, then to have my school district outright forbid them from learning about it. If you do not want your child to know of such things, don't let them read it. But do not make an across the board decision when it involves other people's children, some of whom come from homes that have a more open mind and idealogy than another.
     
  38. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I'm sorrh if I've frightened you.

    How funny-- we agree all the way down the line, just not at the endpoint.

    I, too, would rather discuss this stuff with my kids. Perhaps that's why I defend this community's right to make the same choice. I'm not sure that the teacher in the classroom would choose to define the issues in a piece of literature the same way I would. On most issues, that's OK. But there are some issues where I prefer to be the one doing the teaching. So if a teacher were to teach a story in which the character had an abortion, and that teacher told my kids that, since it was legal, abortion is OK, I would have an issue with that.

    For what it's worth, I'm not exactly in the most conservative part of the country. Any question my kids have is answered openly. (Yes, even the "mommy, where do babies come from?", asked by my 5 year old in the middle of Disney World.) As probably our most recent example, my kids know all about my recent mastectomy-- the implications, our fears. My girls have even seen the breast that was operated on; Brian thinks all this "girls stuff" is "TMI, mom." My next door neighbor, who had one a month before mine, chose not to tell her daughter much at all about the surgery. My claim is that it's a matter for each family to make on our own- a "local" issue.

    But we do NOT have a national curriculum. Our founding fathers chose to make education one of the areas best handled on a local basis.

    Here's my point: I have no problem with a local community deciding that something which would be acceptable when taught in my local school, 45 minutes from Manhattan, might not allign with what they want their kids taught. Likewise, a school in Texas might decide to show a graphic documentary on 9/11. Well, we lived through that terror, so I might have second thoughts if that same documentary were taught to my students-- some of whom lost parents on that day. Should they have access to it if they choose? Of course!!! But should a teacher in Texas have the right to override what parents here feel is suitable for their kids? I don't think so.

    And, since someone else mentioned it, there's no ire on my side either. This is a friendly discussion, not a "to the death" debate. And I know I'm outnumbered; it isn't the first time and it probaly won't be the last.
     
  39. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Couldn't that very same question be asked every single time a teacher or school board makes a decision on what to teach? If my school chooses to teach The Old Man and the Sea, aren't we showing that we place a value on the traits exhibited in that book? If we choose not to teach it, are we implying that those same values aren't worthy of being taught? Practically speaking, there have to be some choices made by someone; the school year simply isn't long enough to teach it all.

    And I don't see it as censorship because no one is being told they can't read anything. Merely that it won't be taught in school.
     
  40. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    In for a penny, in for a pound I guess... (I'm ducking behind Alice!)

    The books that we chose to remove from our bookroom were put into the library, in the young adult section where there are controls over who chooses them; they were not "banned" from the school. If a student chose to read them as an independent reading book, that would be okay. Knowing as we do the content of the books, we would be sure that parents were aware. We just decided not to teach these books as there are so many choices available, why go with something we aren't entirely comfortable with them. Our students must have parental permission to participate in the "growth and development" (aka "sex ed") portion of our health curriculum. If they require this permission, how can we (again, elementary school) offer the same content in a different form?

    When we were struggling with this decision in our school an interesting point was made when the "censorship" word came up. As schools, we do censor or ban the material in our school and classrooms every day. Now, I know that this is an extreme example, but if Johnny came to school with a Playboy magazine as his independent reading choice, it wouldn't be allowed. While it may be a fine publication, it isn't appropriate for the time, the place, or the audience. Johnny will have to read his magazine elsewhere.

    I am the mother of a 14 year-old girl who has great respect for her teachers and their opinions. I want her to have a rich education, but, I want to be aware of any sensitive or controversial issues that may be addressed in class. No one is talking about burning books, just about an awareness of what we are teaching our children.
     
  41. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    Hey, I read it for the articles! Really!:eek::eek::woot:
     

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