Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mamacita, Nov 13, 2009.
Nov 16, 2009
I think there is a big difference between failing a class because a student was legitimately trying, and not ABLE to produce quality work, and a student who was failing because he/she didn't show up/turn in work/participate. In the case of the former, I would be more than willing to work out something, in the latter...fuhgettaboutit.
Of course, as previously pointed out, if a student is legitimately not able to produce the work, that student is provided with an IEP and given a set of standards he CAN achieve.
Yes, but not always...there are those kids who just don't qualify, or don't have time to qualify, or whatever the situation...
True enough. But I still hold to what I said before. These kids have the brains to understand, at a very high level, the theory and practice of the very complex rules of their sports, along with all the playbooks of all the other schools competing. Don't tell me that they can't get a minimum profciency in standard level courses. I'm sure there's the exception to that, but that's where we need to do our jobs and identify them and get them the help they need.
We don't do them any favors by putting them into a position where they suddenly have millions to manage without the skills or the maturity to handle it.
First congrats on your achievements. But athletes should not ever get special rules. This is ridiculous, considering most "good athletes" in school will not make it big. And it creates a system of double standards. It starts with a grade and ends with a real crime, with real victims.
When I was in HS the athletes really did not put in "extra work." They did get special treatment because of "boosting the school's image" Yet, the students like my best friend, who worked FULL TIME out side of school, just to keep her and her mom off the streets didn't get any "leeway" from the school and barely graduated. If she'd been an important athlete she'd have been helped by the school and wouldn't have had to quit softball to keep her grades near passing. She's very smart and great at sports, so if it would have been for having to work she would've don very well for herself and the school...but no athletes who are good and get the teachers to cushy the grades are all the schools care about.
Most of the athletes would go to the games, party--doing drugs and getting wasted (no they were not the only drunkard party heads)--so they were always to tired or too buzzed, or too hung over to do work. THIS IS NOT ALL HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETES. But my experience with the bulk of them.
If leeway should be granted for athletes and "extra work" lets extend that to ALL "at risk" kids who must work to keep there family with a roof over their heads. These are the ones truly putting in extra work...not just putting a good image on the evening news for the school, or the coach's resume for something better.
Good point, Hatima.
The closest I got to being an athlete in high school was during the relays for FFA. In other words, I wasn't one. Yet I was working at age fifteen to pay for my school lunch--which was only $2 per week reduced, but my parents needed help with even that, groceries, necessities, and so forth. I worked way too late each night and trust me, it shows on my transcript. But I wasn't offered help, extensions, and free passes. And you know what, that's okay. That's life. I worked hard and guess what? It shows.
That was my initial reaction. Points he doesn't have yet and may not earn averaged in now????
I seem to have the opposite problem. A student who failed my class last quarter wants me to apply her current extra credit retroactively in the hopes that I will change her grade to a D. Um, no, but I'll be happy to accept late work until the end of the semester, but that would be, well, WORK, wouldn't it?
Nov 17, 2009
Special rules? I was a University athlete, so I was allowed to miss more class than other students to COMPETE for my SCHOOL. Sports teams, believe it or not, bring the $$$ at both the HIGH SCHOOL and UNIVERSITY levels. We had major sponsorships from several corporations, based on our athletic teams. The only special treatment I got that maybe wasn't deserved? Not having to wait in line for the campus bar.
I worked 30 hours a week, took a full load of courses, and spent about 6 hours a day in the gym. Were you with those high school athletes 24/7? Because it todays world to even be on a high school varsity team, you're in the gym several hours a day on your own.
Do you know why I partied on Saturday nights? Because Sunday was my ONE day off. No practice, no work, no school. I could put my 2 hours in at the gym once I recovered from my hangover. If we had something in the middle of the week, we'd blow off some steam during the week, sure.
But then again, I was only paying my way through university and playing sports to earn some scholarship money to pay for my textbooks every year. Oh and I come from a generally single parent home where my Mom remarried (or moved in with a new man) every few years. I have 3 half-siblings, none of whom have a full sibling. If anyone was at risk, I was. I played sports and that kept me out of trouble.
People seem to forget that. Sports keep kids who are at risk out of MORE trouble, but who cares about that. They're just dumb jocks.
Nov 18, 2009
Right. That's exactly what we're implying.
Right. And I personally expect a higher standard than a "dumb jock." I want a jock who sets goals in academics, then meets them.
One thing that has been great for me about this thread is to find out that across the U.S., most educators desire each student achieve an education - and the rest comes after studies.
Even in first grade I hear kids say, "I couldn't do my homework because I had swim practice," or "I had to go to dance class." Well I hope they did well and I sure encourage exercise and working to excel in whatever you do -- but I always tell them, "Homework comes first."
Nov 19, 2009
Athlete should NEVER get special treatment. Who cares if they bring in money to colleges and high schools. It was crap that the athletes are (in NEW MEXICO) not held to a high academic standard because of the working out and PR for the school, the games, the traveling, the junk food and the partying (with drugs and alcohol--including the driving DRUNK!!) No not all athletes are that irresponsible, not are all athletes DUMB JOCKS! I NEVER MEANT TO IMPLY THAT. Many jocks are brilliant, but that doesn't mean they don't have to prove it. Sorry if I caused you offense. I'm just sick and tired of "extra work" being an excuse to give athletes a free pass, or even more access to tutors. I wasn't allowed one in school because I was poor, and not an athlete and not a minority.
Why should you or any other athlete get special treatment for missing school and being EXCUSED from the WORK EVERYONE ELSE IS REQUIRED TO DO?
Most of the "at risk" students here can't afford to be in sports. They have to work to support family--even at the high school level.
MY FRIEND (split parents with a wicked witch for a step mom, who felt the father shouldn't support his minor children--but her failed marriage grown boys--and a mom who expected too much from her) worked 7 days a week. She started at work at between 3 and 4 on school days and worked until around 11 (or close), which meant she didn't get home until much later. She also worked more on the weekends. She didn't have time to PARTY AND RELAX LIKE ATHLETES WHO GOT A FREE PASS. Most of the athletes, the ones with the good physique, got the free pass, even in the OFF SEASON. Some joined multiple sports just for the free pass.
My friend had a hard time at home. She had to mother her mother. She had a father who NEVER from the time she was in elementary school stood up for her against her hateful stepmother. HER SITUATION IS NOT UNIQUE...JUST AS HARD WORKING ATHLETES LIKE YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE. If special treatment is given to athletes then give it to all in "hard" situations.
But I sure hope you did earn most of your grades. Rather than having them given to you as a bribe....That is what I see cooperate funding for good athletics.
Good Grade + Good athlete = good team and money/points on coach's resume
Academically deficient athlete, given a passing grade + Good athletic skill = good team and money/points for coach's resume)
Nov 20, 2009
I don't agree with banking...I also don't agree with special treatment of athletes.
BUT...my son is a football player. He is a 4.0 student (isn't allowed to take 5.0 classes until next semester), he is an officer of his local FFA, he shows livestock, he does shooting sports, and he is active in other clubs. His day starts at 4:45 and ends at 9:15. He only goes out with friends every couple of weeks. His football practice is Monday through Saturday. Yes, he is at the football every morning by 5:30. He is there on Saturdays at 7. He is required to do a community service once a month. He falls into bed at 9:15 each night....HE IS NOT A DUMB JOCK!! Some of these posts are insulting to me! How dare some of you judge him because he puts on a jersy on Friday nights--also usually on Thursday for the JV team.
While I don't think that jocks deserve "extra or special treatment", I think that it is not "smart" of teachers that schedule tests on days following games or town wide spirit parties. If only one or two kids in your class are impacted, ok. But if over 50% is participating, be thoughtful.
I also have trouble with teachers that have their idea of what a jock is and judge my son on that idea. He is a wonderful young man that is loyal and kind. We have a teacher that hates boys and hates "jocks". She is over the top. She makes it clear that she will not give special treatment...to the point that she punishes instead. The football players are punished for things that the girls are allowed to do or the non athletic boys are allowed to do. This is not fair also.
Last night my son left the team meal (it is a team building activity that they do every Thursday night) and came home early because he had to do 6 pages of homework in one class and 2 in another. Plus he had to wash and shear two sheep for the livestock show this weekend. I didn't make him come home, but he did it because keeping his 4.0 is important to him. I try to do everything I can to help him--including blowing out a sheep before shearing. And I hate sheep.
mrachelle87, your son is what is known as a Scholar Athlete, NOT a "dumb jock." He's one of those amazing kids who takes advantage of the opportunities given to him without just taking advantage. He must hate the kids who try to pull favors just to get by because it sullies his academic image.
Be proud of yourself for having such a gem in your household!!!
mrachelle87--I admit to feeling much the same way reading through some of this thread. My daughter is only in grade 10, but is already experiencing some of the difficulties student athletes experience. She is, right now, putting in 20+ hours (including travel time) a week training with the provincial soccer team at her age level. She is working hard to maintain a 90%+ average and she plays school sports as well. The provincial opportunity is not one we sought out, but the quality of the training she is receiving will help to open a lot of doors to her in the next couple of years. We are hoping that some of her teachers, especially next semester, will be willing to work with her a little, not minimizing her work load, but recognizing that there are times she will be over-extended and may need to be able to submit an assignment on Sunday instead of Friday (most of her assignments are submitted electronically) or have a reading list or assignment ahead of time so that she can get a jump on things.
I know that there are cases of the "dumb jock" syndrome. As the parent of a student-athlete, I worry that we are painting everyone with the same brush.
It just bothers me when I hear this. People say the same thing about FFA kids. And that is not true. They are some of the hardest working kids in school. They have great work ethics. My son has been raised that school is first, family is second, and football and extra stuff is third. He knows that getting to college is his goal. He will not get a football scholarship. He has already got livestock judging scholarships to several schools--he is in 10th grade. That is his real love. How dare someone think they can put him in their box. He doesn't fit!
Now I am on my SOAPBOX!:wub:
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