"Banking" points?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Mamacita, Nov 13, 2009.

  1. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    What is your opinion of this: A high school coach has asked teachers to borrow points from NEXT semester and apply them to a student's average THIS semester, so the kid can play football.

    Honestly, I can't stop laughing long enough to organize my own opinion into a logical sentence.
     
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  3. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Adding my laughter - :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  4. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Say what?????
     
  5. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    And this coach is from what planet?????
     
  6. midwestteacher

    midwestteacher Cohort

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    I am sick and tired of coaches trying to get these kids around the rules. They are doing nothing but teaching these guys that the rules don't apply and if you can play ball we will bend over backwards to kiss your b&*$.

    I had a basketball player last year that was failing two of my classes. They can't play if they have any Fs and these two weren't the only ones. The coach wanted to know what we could do to get him eligible. I told him to tell the kid to do his assignments and turn them in. That is pretty much what the other teachers told him to.
     
  7. Sarge

    Sarge Enthusiast

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    The main purpose of high school sports is to give some kids incentive to pass all of their classes.
     
  8. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    I'm not a big fan of deficit spending....

    Who's to say the kid will HAVE any points next semester??
     
  9. DrivingPigeon

    DrivingPigeon Phenom

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    Yikes...High school sports are such BS. Give me a break.
     
  10. Mrs. K.

    Mrs. K. Enthusiast

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    I had a student a couple of years ago who was a football star. He quickly racked up six unexcused absences in my class, so I put in the paperwork to drop/fail him for non-attendance, as is our school policy. Nothing happened until he hit thirteen truant days, at which time he was dropped into my standard level class. Of course, football season was over by then. He was in that class about three times before he was moved to the continuation school. Apparently his mom was a horror and was already suing the school over "discrimination." Please.
     
  11. CindyBlue

    CindyBlue Cohort

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    I'm stepping in here in defense of coaches and sports...I have seen many a kid turn it around because of a good coach who gets on his case and won't let him play until he makes good in class. The coaches at my school are very much in support of academics and about kids learning to be good people. Without them I'll bet a bunch of kids here wouldn't have learned that academics can be cool, too, because until the coach insisted, the kids never tried...and once they actually tried and did the work, they liked their classes, to their surprise! (grin!)
     
  12. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    That's not a bad idea from a coach perspective!

    Hey, you get to bank points from later in the year, then because of banking those points early in the year, they fail the year... then because they fail the year, they get an extra year in high school! Sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me!
     
  13. Katieladybug

    Katieladybug Companion

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    OMG that is way to funny. I would like to borrow from my paycheck that I will be getting in my next lifetime. :) Who do I need to put that request in with?

    Suggest that the coach tutor him, and make him do his homework.
     
  14. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Rules don't apply to athletes good enough to play pro. Sorry, but they don't. I know first hand, because I lived the life.

    That said, I was a CIS athlete of my own merit, and I had profs who insisted that all athletes from my school were morons and the only faculties they succeeded in were education because we could coach or Business Admin because the profs there could be bought. I once had a Poli Sci prof call my coach amazed that I had gotten a 95% on his midterm because he had never had an athlete score so high in his class. He also told my coach that he looked into the possibility of me cheating before he recorded the grade. As though I should be grateful for that.

    Not all athletes are morons, but even as a CIS athlete I received special privileges on campus, and I refuse to apologize for them, because I never saw my classmates going to five hours of classes a day, working an eight hour shift, putting in two hours in the gym alone, and a three hour practice, plus being an Academic All Canadian.

    But I was just a dumb jock, and yes, I have a chip on my shoulder because of how I was treated by classmates. One found out I was teaching outside my major and told my academic advisor that she was amazed that I was teaching at all, let alone outside my major. She even wrote a letter to the director in my division (her division) about how incompetent I was. Sadly, she didn't know that he was my Godfather.

    I know this is rambling. My point is, yes, sadly the rules bend for athletes. However, most people fail to see the extra work put in by most athletes.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Of course there are amazing coaches working with our children and youth...I think everyone recognizes this. But this coach? Maybe the best ever, but I'm questioning...
     
  16. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Yes, the rules do apply to even pro-bound athletics. It's just up to the adults to ensure the students are held accountable.
     
  17. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    Actually they only apply if the adults apply them, and as long as they don't (and trust me, they don't) then no, the rules don't apply, at least not in the minds of the kids who consistently avoid falling in line because of the sport they play.
     
  18. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    What I am saying is that the rules are created for all students, even superior student athletes. There are no exceptions in fine print that allow these students to disregard the rules, so the rules DO apply to them. And as I've already said, it's up to the adults to enforce them. I realize they don't in many cases, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable...the rules are intended for them all.
     
  19. Canadian Gal

    Canadian Gal Habitué

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    I agree, but until the adults enforce them consistently, in the minds of these kids, they don't apply. My perks in school were free drinks and easy access to the campus bar. No waiting in line because, win or lose, our team was gonna booze. I still had to pass my classes and maintain an acceptable average.

    I know pro hockey players who only finished high school because their teachers wanted to be rid of them. (I actually taught a kid like that in my student teaching experience and was told to pass him) However, I also know pro hockey player Johnny Toews comes to mind, who finished high school early to play NCAA Division I hockey instead of going the traditional CHL route to the NHL.
     
  20. wrice

    wrice Habitué

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    Invite the coach to help remediate the student! Give the coach a textbook, a syllabus, and a study guide. He wants his player on the field he can get the player on the field once that player passes his courses.
     
  21. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    The coaches in my school are a wonderful resource. They know that, first and foremost, they're coaching (and most are also teaching) in a SCHOOL, and that it's all about education. So if I have an athlete who isn't toeing the line, I know I can have a chat with the coach and expect to see results. A kid who is late for practice because of extra help is fine, but a kid who is late because he was at detention can expect to run laps.

    But, as with any other line of work, there are people whose priorities are.... let's say "confused." The coach in this school is apparently one of them. Now that this story has made the internet, and is on its way cross country, expect him to have a lot of trouble finding future jobs related to education.
     
  22. allisonbeth

    allisonbeth Comrade

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    A allow students to "bank ahead" on certain things like ind. reading and vocabulary. But, of course, I d not let them go the other way.

    Most coaches that I deal with are wonderful. They help the kids keep their grades up and do everything in their power to keep the kid passing/ on the team.
     
  23. MissScrimmage

    MissScrimmage Aficionado

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    What will they think of next...
     
  24. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    Wow.....what a jerk.

    Even if this is for a kid who lives for sports and would drop out if he couldn't play, surely the coach could have helped the kid by finding him a tutor or taking an interest earlier. You don't get in a situation where you need to "borrow points" overnight.
     
  25. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    What a strange request . . . this coach obviously does not understand education.

    As for do rules apply to even the elite, yes, they do, they are written for everyone. If the adults in charge do not hold the kids accountable, the adult is an idiot, but the rules still apply. That is why we have these wonderful teachers to hold the adult coach accountable for enforcing the rules for everyone! Sorry CG, but I believe you hung out with those who "lived the life" where those in charge did not enforce the rules. However, the rules did apply. I agree with Just Me.

    I am so glad there are teachers out there with integrity and a purpose for their students, who won't let rules slide just because a kid is an athlete.
    As stated, a truly good teacher or coach will work to motivate the kid to focus on his education so that he remains eligible.
    That is the reason for the rules, as stated, to motivate certain kids who aren't getting the motivation anywhere else.

    Hurray for adults - coaches included - who get kids to address their futures by working in high school. The knees, ankles, backs, and heads don't last a lifetime, but the education will.
     
  26. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    mamacita - did this actually happen at YOUR school? I can't imagine being able to respond sensibly to such a request. Good thing you have a sense of humor!
     
  27. Mamacita

    Mamacita Aficionado

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    It happened at our high school. My husband came home with this news, almost in shock!
     
  28. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    My son's hockey team once hired a Canadian coach. First practice he took the kids on one side and told them he wanted school reports from their teachers and anyone not getting good grades would be benched! He even sent letters home to the parents explaining his policy. He obviouslt didn't understand the British school system and the very idea that teachers would issue grades for a coach external to their schools is a none starter. Next practice he only had 2 players as the parents boycotted it. 2 weeks later and he was out on his ear. This sort of thing may work in schools but not in a private club!
     
  29. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    That's really common, even in club sports, in this area. The coaches don't want to take away from the school. (Here I'm talking about mostly high school kids and mostly the more elite levels of club sports.)
     
  30. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    I'm not sure how you do it in the USA but I would imagine that a parent would be on the phone to a lawyer straight away in the UK if their child was dropped from a school sports team because they had not got the required grades in academic subjects.

    In the UK the only pro sport where players can get filthy rich is soccer. Here the pro clubs scout out the promising soccer players at about age 8 or 9. They can't legally sign the players to contracts at that age but they make sure that players get everything they need to play the sport and then call in the favour a few years later to get the parents signature on a contract. Our other sports (possibly tennis apart but then we only have Andy Murray) are not really going to make you rich so are left to the schools to develop players. Our best cricketers (cricket is our national sport) earn more taking part in Strictly Come dancing (our version of dancing with the stars) or living in a jungle than they do playing the sport!
     
  31. CanukTeacher

    CanukTeacher Comrade

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    School sports require missing school time. No one who is failing has earned the opportunity to miss that school time. School sports are not a right. I have British friends and they certainly went to schools where they weren't allowed to miss school if they were failing.
     
  32. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    That is not the norm beleive me. Pupils who play in sports teams are representing thwe school. No school over here would dream of putting out an understrength team just to satisfy the maths teacher! Participation in sport is not regulated by academic success.
     
  33. Hoot Owl

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    In defense of a dumb jock, not all of them are gifted intellectually and athletically. I've seen some very gifted athletes who could have made it in the pros but just didn't have the home life or genes to make it academically, they dropped out of high school, they're in prison now... what a waste.
     
  34. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I understand you completely, Hoot Owl. You do hate to strip a child of something that could provide him or her a future.

    That is why I am okay that the academic requirements are fairly easy with most that I know of being either no Ds or Fs or a C average.
     
  35. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    In Texas, a student must be passing all classes to participate in any extra-curricular activity, including the football team playing in the state play-offs. No pass=No play. I think it is one of the best rules we have.
     
  36. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    "No pass, No play", is law in many states. I agree with it whole-heartedly. Don't tell me that any athlete who can memorize the playbooks of 100 or more high schools, colleges and pro teams isn't capable of earning at least a C average in the VERY basic "standard diploma" (as opposed to college bound curriculums) curriculum offered in American high schools.
     
  37. JaimeMarie

    JaimeMarie Moderator

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    Our rule here is if they are failing one class they can still play if they go to academic obligations after school every week until they are passing. If they are failing more than one class they have are suspended for ten days and have to academic obligation until they are passing.
    I personally won't let them practice or race until they are passing. And I hound the students about their school work constantly. I also, keep in touch with all of their teachers.
    This year I have four high honors students on the team!!
     
  38. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    But surely you must have some kids who would never get a C grade in a month of Sundays (unless your pass mark is so low that everyone achieves). Are you saying that a child like that will never play on a school team regardless of their sporting ability? If that was the case in the UK then David Beckham would be earning his keep as a street sweeper not pulling in millions of $$$ playing in LA and Madrid.
     
  39. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    At our school, you are allow the first week to have below 65% then the 2nd week it has to be above or you are out of sports until it is. That is Monday to Monday. So if you play football on Friday and it was a 62% on Monday...to bad that you didn't make the 90% on the test last week. Because until the report is issued on Monday, you are on the bench.
     
  40. mmswm

    mmswm Moderator

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    I don't think you understand just how low standards are in some classes. In my former district there were three levels for all classes, not including AP. There's honors level, college entry level and standard level. Standard level courses are extremely basic. I can't speak for other subjects, but the math in standard level includes things like consumer mathematics and basic arithmetic. David Beckman is in no way stupid. He could have easily passed standard level courses and probably passed college entry level with ease if it was expected of him and he was given the resources to overcome any difficulties instead of just given excuses to why he can't. Besides, what good are we doing these people if we give them excuses then they get out and make those millions and don't have any clue how to manage that money. We wind up with scandals and bankrupt athletes. Thats no good for anybody.

    I have two personal stories of athletes. Both of these young men are famous, so I will leave their names out of it. The first was a student of my cousin's. She's a university english professor. A footballl player turned in his first papaer and it was horrible. She returned it with an F and a note to speak to her. When he did, she told him maybe he ought not to be in her class and should consider dropping it if that was the best he could do. He didn't drop and when he turned in the next paper, she hauled him into her office and accused him of plagarizing. The paper was very good, past good, in fact. It was amazing. Until he was able to produce his notes and research, she didn't believe him that it was his work. Once he did prove that it was his work she asked him; "If you can write like that, why did you turn in a paper like the first one?" His answer: "Because nobody ever made me. I'm a star football player and teachers just passed me because they thought I was stupid." He wasn't stupid. He switched his major, took as many classes as he could with her and continued to write like a professional. With her mentoring, he began to work to his potential in his other classes, graduating cume laude several years later. He was right. He wasn't stupid, but teacher after teacher allowed him to get away with sub-standard work because he was the start football player. Nobody did him any favors that way.

    The university I went to took its athletics seriously. Any struggling athlete was provided a private tutor, paid for by the department, in order to keep them passing. I was assigned a player who would eventually be a big name in the NFL. He kept moaning and groaning, but eventually, I said to him what I said previously about learning the playbooks. Something clicked. He will never be a math genius, but he brought his grade up to a C that term and a B the next. I continued to tutor him through all his math and science courses. It took some work, but he never got below a C. He probably would have done better if some teacher earlier in his career had insisted that we work to his potential, instead of allowing him to pass just because he was the great football player her was.

    Both of these men proved capable, and one far more than that. As my cousin remarked, I wonder if he would have graduated Magna Cume Laude, or with academic trophies in addition to his football trophies if that one teacher who pushed him showed up in high school.
     
  41. bonneb

    bonneb Fanatic

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    I guess it is different in he U.S. I know some administrators cave in to coaches so good players can play in important games, but most administrators, teachers, and coaches of integrity realize that education comes before any other activities.

    If a student is willing to work after school to bring grades up, most will bring grades up to snuff. If a student is incapable of doing the work, he will have a specialized education plan with goals and learning he is able to achieve. Voila! He meets his specialized goals and is playin on the field, doing a great job, learning that education comes first and that he is capable! Also that he can excel on the field which will all around give a great sense of self-esteem!

    Teaching these guys in high school that the rules do not apply to them carries over into adulthood and that is one reason we have so many jerky adults running around - teachers on cell phones all day, office workers ordering Christmas clothing on line during the company's dollar, and on and on and on. The rule is, your WORK comes first, then the extracurricular. That is the rule in the U.S.A. (except for a few people across the country who do not hold education as a high goal for every child to offer them a better future!).
     

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