Baby vs Mistake... Apples and oranges.

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by Irishdave, May 19, 2011.

  1. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 19, 2011

    I was watching one of the Courtroom TV shows the other day, I can't remember which one,
    The case involved a young man (under 21) who had a child out of wedlock, the Judge said the young man made a mistake, along with other blunders/poor choices, where upon young man got rather angry and was removed from the courtroom while saying "a child is not a mistake."

    Now this is IMHO: I feel the reaction was a smoke screen, by not letting people say it is a mistake (Getting pregnant) the parent(s) absolves the guilt or shame of having a child out of wedlock.
    Getting pregnant out of wedlock is the mistake and the baby in not a mistake, Apples and oranges.

    I am talking about having recreational/casual sex and both parties are ill prepared for parenthood; no meaningful relationship between the parents, poor income, no "home" of their own, etc.

    Again I stress the child is not the mistake, the choices made by the parents is the mistake.
    I do not think anyone who says, "You made a mistake" means the child.

    Now there are many who chose to be a single parent I understand that.


     
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  3. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

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    Having twins out of wedlock was a mistake. I loathe their father. Babies themselves are not a mistake. Sometimes I wish I had a different life, but it always includes the babies going with me.
    It's hard not having support in state...including my own mom that pushes me away by wanting me to work things out with their dad. No job really sucks. It's very, very hard. Even with all of that...no, babies that insist on saying "dada"...are not the mistake..
     
  4. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

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    Essentially, I agree!

    Getting pregnant out of wedlock isn't always a mistake, though from the sounds of this case (under 21, probably without a stable income or relationships, and without the maturity to be a parent) the judge was likely correct.

    Human beings should not be considered mistakes, and I don't think any who refer to a pregnancy as a mistake are referring to the human being, but to the possibly poor decision-making on the part of the parents.

    I suppose in fairness, we should acknowledge that a lot of people make the same mistake (i.e., risking pregnancy at a time they're not ready) and don't suffer the consequences, or are able to easily absorb those consequences (e.g., relatively affluent married couples who don't intend to have a child but become pregnant have a much greater capacity to just have the child, though they've made basically the same error).
     
  5. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    You know I think it's funny when they say it's a mistake or unplanned... IF you have "do the deed" you know what your risks are like if I decide to ride in my car without a seatbelt I know what my risks are if we get into an accident.

    Planned/unplanned just seems like a trivial thing to say.
     
  6. TeacherApr

    TeacherApr Groupie

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    Yep, I agree!. My child is NOT a mistake but the way it happened DEFINITELY was. I did "choose" to be a single parent but only because I thought it was selfish to give her up for adoption or to abort her seeing as how I had a stable job, insurance, a place to live and the fact that I know I would be a good mom. To give her up or abort her simply because I didn't have "thousands" saved up or the fact that I wasn't married nor was I going to marry him would have been 100% SELFISH.
     
  7. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    I would consider unplanned to include a birth control failure. I have had friends get pregnant while on the pill, on the shot, or even after having their tubes tied. Those were certainly not planned pregnancies or leaving things up to chance. When something that has a .01% chance of happening happens, then it is unplanned.
     
  8. scienceteach82

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    I was on pill.
     
  9. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    May 19, 2011

    I get that, but you know that they aren't a 100% either... so if you don't "risk" that than you make your choice. I'm just saying people also die in accidents with seltbelts. It's a risk. So if I get into an accident I can say Oh that was unplanned. Not that I don't want it to happen, but I know my risks. By "doing the deed"on the pill, off, with or without other kinds of protection you are at risk for it to happen.

    I'm going to have to leave it at that... we all make decisions that put at risk for anything... so by trying our best to "protect" ourselves that is all we got. Things happen all the time & we don't say that was unplanned. I mean I had a friend die... so that was unplanned... We just seem to throw that word around. I know I can be guilty of it too, but when it comes down to it 2 people making that decision knows their chances.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 19, 2011

    "Knowing that something is a possibility" isn't the same as "planning" that thing. I know it's a possibility that I might slip on the ice and break my elbow, but that's not something that I plan to do--therefore it is, by definition, unplanned.

    For something to be "planned", it requires an active choice. "Unplanned" means that the choice was not actively made, even if it was a possibility.
     
  11. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    See none of the posters are trying avoid the issue. They have admitted the laps in judgment or birth control failure.

    Whereas there are many in our "new" society do not want to take responsibility for the act. Never wanting to be taken to task by persons who opinion counts, Family, good friends, the judge, etc. So they throw up the, "the baby is not a Mistake wall" to divert the subject from them.

    That is what I am trying to say not that it is anybody's business, just when "it" does come up.
    I hope I have stated my opinion correctly.
    To me the young man should have said, "Yes, I made a Mistake/poor choice but I am taking care of my responsibility" and not make a scene over it.
     
  12. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I agree that lots of people these days don't take responsibility for their actions. Unfortunately, that's not something that the rest of us can control.
     
  13. LUCHopefulTeach

    LUCHopefulTeach Habitué

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    I think another issue with this is society being too judgemental. Not every single parent is sleeping around or stupid. The judge should have expressed her statement better because I don't think saying that the young mans baby is a mistake is appropriate. I'm not saying that unplanned pregnancy isn't an issue but rather that we need to be less judgemental.
     
  14. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    Caesar.. I see your point BUT doing the deed with or without protection is an active choice...

    It's hard to really plan for anything because s@#$ happens all the time that changes that plan. We actively make choices to "plan" for stuff... but "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray"

    If you look back at many pg posts... women will ask about "planning/Trying to be ready." Most replies were if you plan you'll never be ready.

    Everyone makes their own choices... I'm not here to judge.. but people should step up to whatever was planned or unplanned if they make that choice.

    I'm done now...
     
  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    May 19, 2011

    I understand where you're coming from. I'm not trying to suggest that people should be allowed to forgo responsibility when something happens that they didn't plan. Rather, I'm just saying that I think it is perfectly fair to identify some outcome as being "unplanned" when it was, in fact, not planned.

    Making the choice to get it on is not the same as making the choice to reproduce. One can lead to the other, yes, but it's also just as likely that that won't happen, especially if a person takes appropriate precautions.

    Making a choice to walk across slippery ice may result in a broken elbow, but that doesn't mean that a person planned to get the broken elbow. The person still has to live with the consequences of the choice, however unpleasant and however unplanned those consequences may be. In the same way, a person can get it on with the intention of just getting it on. If it turns out that it results in a pregnancy, the person still has to live with the consequences of that.
     
  16. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 19, 2011

    One of the consequences of a "casual" sex pregnancy results in being judged.

    I just wonder why shouldn't people be judged? Seriously.
    I think people are hard wired to judge others.
    Don't we judge things and people everyday?
    In a waiting room, don't we judge the other people in the room as to where we will sit?
    We judge whether or not to go to a hot dog stand depending on the vender's "look".
    Wasn't Sarah Palin judged on her daughter's pregnancy? This is not ment to be a political statement
    Hasn't Obama been judged on his friendship with Bill Ayers? This is not ment to be a political statement
    A 20 something woman marries a 60 something man with money there are judgments there.

    If you don't want to be judged don't do things that people judge.
     
  17. scienceteach82

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    May 19, 2011

    People judge for every little darn thing.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    People can judge all they want, but they really have no business saying anything to me about my choices unless they're people that I care about who are telling me because they think I need to hear it.

    To make generalized and judgmental statements like "You shouldn't have had a baby out of wedlock" is rude and pointless. Nothing can be done about it now, so saying anything just serves to bring about bad feelings.
     
  19. scienceteach82

    scienceteach82 Cohort

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    I wish I could "like" your post lol...

    I agree.
     
  20. TeacherGroupie

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    I'm going to guess that the judge scraped a nerve that was already raw: maybe people have been advising this young man that he should move on from this "mistake" and leave the child to the mother, and he's having none of it?
     
  21. sue35

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    I agree that people judge all the time, but that does not make it alright to discuss it out loud. Yes, I judge those in the waiting room but I am not going up to them and telling them what I think.

    I also think there is a difference between the word "mistake" and "unplanned". To me, a pregnancy that is a mistake is someone who got pregnant when they really shouldn't of (age, money, support, etc.). An unplanned pregnancy is one that was not planned out for but not necessarily a bad thing. This is not including when the baby actually comes
     
  22. TeacherApr

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    No one plans an accident. Can't really compare.

    Very true...besides.....a judge is um....a JUDGE who um....JUDGES :lol:
    Yea....personally I'm tired of hearing "stop judging" For crying out loud we judge every single day. And it's true...if you don't want to be judged, don't do things that people judge aka take responsibility of your actions.
     
  23. DizneeTeachR

    DizneeTeachR Virtuoso

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    May 20, 2011



    Isn't an accident usually caused by a mistake...usually. I mean if I swerve to hit a deer & run into a tree how is that not my mistake...after I've heard over & over it's better to just hit the animal than try to swerve.

    I'm not saying mistakes don't happen in this situation...like forgetting the pill & other things not working, but I'll stand beside it, it is your choice to make the decision to "do the deed." People just seem to forget what may happen & like a lot of things are ready to blame something else for the "unplanned" situation.
     
  24. TeacherApr

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    BUT....not all car accidents are mistakes no matter that it's called an "accident". That's what I was getting at.
     
  25. math1abee

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    Personally, I find this post sort of confusing. ;) I was a "mistake" but my parents were able to take care of me and everything was ok so does that make me "unplanned" instead? Or was it the fact that my parents "did the deed" and got pregnant that was the mistake and I was just "unplanned." LOL. I like this post too Science, it's very interesting.

    Personally, I think that a baby is NEVER a mistake because it is God's creation (essentially) and I bet everyone on this post would agree with that. There's no way a baby could be anything other then God's miracle.

    However, I think that when applying the term "mistake" or "unplanned" there are many gray areas when addressing this specific situation and excluding others. For example, it may have been a mistake for my parents to have "done the deed" because it caused something unplanned. But on the other hand if my husband and I had done the same thing it would just be unplanned because we are in a situation that makes that predicament ok aka not a mistake.

    So I guess what I'm trying to say especially in reference to the out of wedlock aspect is that some people believe that if a baby is created out of wedlock then the act of that creation was a mistake, not the baby and when people who are married and stable get pregnant and weren't ready then it is just "unplanned." However, some people may feel that the baby actually was a mistake because some people do believe in abortion and wanting to "erase" that mistake. So like I said, it seems to me that this is a little confusing because there are so many gray areas when applying these specific words. :)

    Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you if the guy in the courtroom acted appropriately or not because I don't know how the judge addressed the comment towards him. But those court shows sure are addictive! :D
     
  26. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    May 20, 2011

    The fathering of a illegitimate child was just one of many "poor choices" that the young man made. The point I was making was it was ironic, or whatever you want to call it, that the young man would "go off".

    I should have included that he was in the court because of money owed to an ex-girlfriend, not the mother of his child. The timeline of "being with" the ex-girlfriends and the conception of the baby was a very, very short (to be read as a guy who sleeps around, kind of like Two and a half men's Charlie Harper but without the money or talent)
    I know poor choices, I have made my share.
     

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