Audiorecording Students

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Ms. I, Sep 22, 2013.

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  1. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Right stg & Kat53, the grad program is exactly the same no matter what setting one plans to work in when they graduate. But as I've mentioned on this board before, being a school SLP & a hospital SLP is so incredibly much like night & day, it's not even funny because you have to know what you're doing in the hospitals. There's no messing around there! People's lives are in your hands. If an 80-yr old man can't swallow well because he had a stroke due to his lack of paralyzed throat muscles, you better know how to help him because if he chokes & dies, well, they'll be looking at what plan the SLP set up. Or if someone's had throat cancer, you have to knwhow to help the patient speak, eat, & swallow in as much of a normal way as possible. You have to know how to read numerous x-rays, such as endoscopic readings & much more.

    Yes, that's a whole lot more involved than having a kid practice his /r/ and /s/ sounds in the initial positions of single words, then phrases, then sentences.

    A past SLP colleague of mine who's been a school SLP for 20 something year's said she'd have to go back to school if she ever wanted to work in a hospital setting. Again, schools & hospitals are just 2 different animals.

    They should really almost have 2 different curriculum programs depending on where you plan to work, but they don't.
     
  2. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    I'm not sure a masters will fix many problems a professional goes though. The thing about learning a new experience is that there is a curve, and the person going through that learning has to navigate the unknown, and many people deal with that in different ways.
    ETA: I would agree ( and I would imagine Ms.I would,too) that a change in settings would be best.
     
  3. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    That's true. I admit I do NOT have the personality type for these students I have now. Again, I never worked with high schoolers, much less at an alternative school & I never plan to again after this. As I've said here before, I idn't even know what knd of school this was until I got to work here more & more. All I knew was that it was an all special ed school. Someone told me it was a private school...uh yeah, it's a private school alright! :rolleyes: Unless a person really likes the alternative kind of student population, I'd definitely choose to work with easy-going, much more acquiescent, YOUNGER students. The kids I had at my last job were all angels compared to these students & I'd love to have many of back right now!
     
  4. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    My masters program didn't teach anything about classroom management or working with "delinquent" students. I learned all that stuff on the job. It wouldn't have been good enough for me to throw my hands up and say, "Oh, I never learned that so I shouldn't be expected to be able to do it." I don't allow my students to use that as an excuse, and I won't stoop to use it myself either. I, like all of us here, am an adult and a professional. I have the knowledge and wherewithal to find the resources I need to be successful. All teachers need to have that.
     
  5. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    OK, well I just don't have the personality for these type of students. People CAN have preferences if they want, right? I'd definitely never choose to work with these types & I hope I never have to ever again.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    That's fair enough.

    So this leaves you with two options:

    1. Quit and find a more suitable position.
    2. Stay there and figure out a way to make it work.

    Which are you going to do, and how are you going to do it?
     
  7. Kat53

    Kat53 Devotee

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    I think that's fair,too. I absolutely do not have the personality, skills, or patience to work with this type of high school student. I have worked my whole career in high risk populations, but in elementary.
    I don't have great advice, other than to look for a SLP position in a traditional school. Although the hospital setting seems intriguing to me.
     
  8. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Caesar, well, #2 for now. So, if they start cussing/cussing at me, saying sexually explicit comments, being downright obstinant & refusing to work, which I've never had to deal with personally (except for mabe the refusing to work at times w/ younger kids) this is what I plan to do (which is also what any SLP would do really because SLPs don't discipline really...that's not the nature of their job):

    Walk them back to class & document it in our records.

    See, unlike the gen ed teachers who are stuck having to deal with it because they're the ones who have the kids all day long, us SLPs don't have to deal with it & it's not counted against us either.

    Let's say they actually stand up & try to corner me in the room or pull out a weapon which I wouldn't put it past any o them. Then, I guess I'll scream my lungs out to high heavens (since the hellhole school don't have phones) & hopefully someone will come runnign fast enough to my room before I get slashed. No I'm serious. These are literally the types of kids I have to deal with now. :(
     
  9. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    OK everyone, picture this if you can:

    Despite what anyone thinks of me by the way I post on here, I am a soft-spoken, gentle, only child who's had a pretty excellent, happy childhood raised by both parents to have good morals, never gave my parents or anyone else any bit of trouble. Went on the straight & narrow my entire life. I'm just a 5'3", very non-intimidating looking gal with long hair to my waist, wouldn't hurt a fly type person. I have no kids of my own & never around any kids of any ages outside of work. I admit, I've lived a rather sheltered life. Never went away to college. Lived at home with parents until recently in which I've always led a preetty solitary, quiet, non-dramatic life. Don't have kids of my own, so even if a 2-yr old had a temper tantrum, I wouldn't know what to really do. I guess I'd just let the tantrum rn it's course & watch him while he calms down. If it were my OWN child, I would spank him/her for sure.

    Character-wise, I expect the kids I work with to sit, listen, follow directions, just do their work, & RESPECT their teacher. I figure, if I did it, they can do it too (but of course I know it's not that simple). Anything worse than that, I don't really know what to do. I'll just send the kid back to their other class, which has always been my solution.

    Very suddenly, boom! I'm in this school of ruffians who have court dates, been kicked out of everywhere else, 15-20ish yr olds, all taller than me, don't have any respect, will cuss all over the place in front of teachers, talk sexually explicitly, many of them gang members, been arrested/jailed, smoke joints, etc. That's why I never wanted high schoolers ever. I have zero in comon with them. BUT, these aren't just regular high schoolers who aspire to go to college with their heads on right with respect for teachers & other authority figures who want to be somebody in life...these are shall we say "the worst of the worst." Anything worse would be some juvenile detention center or juvenile prison.

    Well, as you can pretty much imagine, I don't know what to do with these types of kids. To me, I might as well be working in a prison! I just try to stay on their good side without appearing like I'm afraid of them & just do my job. They have goals such as multiple meaning words, s & z sounds, to name a couple IEP goals. I know what activities to do with them, so I just do my best t have them practice it. Fortunately, it's not for too long 30-45 min, 1-2 days week.

    If they refuse to work with me, I'm secretly glad because then I don't have to deal with them. I just document it & it's onto the next student.

    So I hope I've helped you all better understand what I'm dealing with here.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Ms. I, I feel like I do understand who your students are. I agree that they might not be the finest, most upstanding citizens. I also agree that you may not be the best teacher for them. The fact, however, is that you're there. It is also a fact that they're not going to change. With that in mind, you're going to have to be the one who changes--your expectations, attitude, all of it. You can spend the next 8 months being upset at the hand you chose for yourself (i.e., this job in this school with these students), or you can spend that time being an effective SLP and helping these students grow and achieve. If you're going to complain for 8 months, you're on the right track. If you're going to be an effective teacher, then you need to change things up. Which classroom management programs have you researched or read about? Which ones seem like they might be most effective for you with your students?
     
  11. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Ms. I, maybe it would help to really consider these teens for a second...what brought them to where they are in life now, what their future statistically holds. It's hard for me to make room in my heart for such resentment when it's already so full of compassion for them. Yeah, that sounds sappy or whatever, but it's true. They are so young and they need everyone they can get on their side.
     
  12. HistoryVA

    HistoryVA Devotee

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    Exactly. And as someone who also works with this population, it's hard for me to read someone speaking about them the way you have in some of your posts. That might be what's causing some people to balk at you continuing to interact with these kids. A teen having attitude does not mean they will pull a weapon on you.... you just come off a bit like "omgosh, urban teens! Lock the car doors!" and having seen that, it makes me sad.

    Maybe you're completely capable of hiding what you think in front of these kids, but honestly I'd be surprised. The teens I work with can sense when teachers have written them off as nothing but "delinquents" and they get this "well, if they already think that, might as well prove them right" attitude.

    I understand if you're not cut out for these kids. I couldn't handle elementary students. But I hope you find a way to the right job for you as soon as possible, for your sake and for the teens.
     
  13. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    I'm in a rigorous grad program where I could always be reading, studying, doing homework, or taking a test when I'm not at work. I don't have time to do any extra researching of any mgmt, etc. I need relaxation & an outlet too where I'm finally not reading something. :dizzy:

    JustMe, unfortunately, I really don't have the time to study their lives. I just know they haven't done well, which is why they're at the school they're at now. I don't know their back story, etc. I try to spark little conversations with them & they'll talk a little bit, but if they're not in the mood, they don't say much or get off into nonsense talk that I try to ignore (sex talk, wanting to smoke a jont, etc.)

    Yes, part of me feels sorry for them. I guess I don't have the genuine compassion that many of you guys have. I'm the type where if a kid ever cussed at me (hasn't happened yet), I'd be like, "OK forget you then"...in my mind. I wouldn't say it out loud. For me, it's difficult to have compassion to help them if they don't want to make a little effort on their end. I guess I shouldn't take theire cussing at me so personally.

    So as far as I'm concerned, I'll do my best while I have this job for now & again, if they refuse to work, I can tell them till I'm blue in the face how useful doing well in school is or that the possibilities of what they can do is endless, but do they want to hear that? No & I see it all over their face & body language.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    If you're not willing to better yourself and your teaching, then I don't understand why you're posting on this matter. Are you just wanting to vent? If so, I'll bow out and let you vent all you wish without trying to offer advice.
     
  15. bison

    bison Habitué

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    Ms. I, are you sure you want to be an SLP?
     
  16. teacherwithlove

    teacherwithlove Comrade

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    Ms. I,

    I am appalled by some of the statements that you have made. If you hate your job so much then do the rest of us a favor and GET OUT OF THE SCHOOL SYSTEM! I'm sure there are thousands of SLP candidates who can only dream of being in a position like yours. You should be ashamed of yourself!
     
  17. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I didn't intend to suggest you study their lives.

    I don't know any of your students, but sadly even I can imagine what some of their home lives are like. I don't need to know details to feel compassion, to want to love them (yes, love them), to want to give them every opportunity at success...because, yes, they can change. And deep in their hearts, they want better. They probably don't think it's possible, though, and they need support.
     
  18. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Please also consider why they are seeing you. Imagine being sixteen and needing your services. Add that to their likely challenging lives and you may be able to understand their walls and attitudes.
     
  19. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Caesar, it's not that I don't WANT to better myself. I just don't have the time right now. You know how people get burned out from their jobs? Well, I'm definitely burned out from going to school. I've been going for my entire life, except for a few years.

    I just want to kick my feet up, be in Hawaii, & wish I didn't have to do ANY of this madness!

    Yes, a lot of my posts lately about my new workplace has been venting. But, I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply to me. :) In my personal life, I only have my mother & my BF to talk about my life. My mom wanted me to quit weeks ago (as well as I). She didn't even tell my dad I was working at a place like this. She says it would break his heart.

    My BF doesn't really understand. He's not in the education field. When I tell him situations throughout the years of what my students have done, he says things like, "Kick them in the ass, they need to respect you" (not literally kicking them) or other things that I can't legally do, but he truly feels for me about my current situation. He's asked me a few times throughout the years what I'd do if he told me one day that he won the Lotto. I told him that I'd walk off the job right that second & never look back & I'd tell all my unsupportive admins to handle it themselves.
     
  20. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    You spend a lot of time on here and a lot of time watching TV, right? Maybe cut out 30 minutes of that time per day and spend it doing something that will make your experience a little better.

    We all want to kick our feet up and relax on a beach somewhere (or in a snowy cabin in the woods, in my case). We're grown, though, and we have responsibilities. We can't always escape from our real lives and all the hassles that come with them. Sometimes we have to buck up and do things that aren't easy, knowing that by doing so we will make things better in the long run.
     
  21. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Lately, I've honestly been wondering that myself & it's a shame since I still don't graduate until NEXT Dec. I'm just so completely sick of going to school for as long as I have & discouraged of the not so great mentors I've had in the past, etc.

    I just need to center myself, pray & ask God to give me strength & get me through this & hopefully inspire someone along the way. I always wanted a career wih kids since I was a child...never in the school setting, but still with kids.
     
  22. bison

    bison Habitué

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    To be honest, it doesn't seem like you want to do this and I don't know why you feel like you have to. You don't. This is your second masters degree, right? If I were in your shoes and I hated my job that much, I would either take a leave of absence or some other kind of break from grad school to reevaluate and find a new job. Then you can decide if you want to go back and finish or just move on to a different field. There are other careers where you can work with kids.
     
  23. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Oh I know about responsibilities. Do you know how long I've been attending school? I've been working & attending school for practically my whole adult life non-stop immediately after graduating from HS & you know I'm not in my 20s anymore. If anything I deserve a rest. I'm sick & tired of always reading something. Yes, I'm on here a lot & do watch a lot of TV. That's my relaxation. Other people drink a glass of wine or something after a long day or smoke, or go to the lounge to sit & listen to music, or go dancing, etc. I'm online & watch TV. I haven't read a novel just for fun in many years.

    For instance, all day yesterday & today, I was at home (except for a quick errand) studying & reading for a tough quiz I took earlier. They give us 65 minn to complete it & we can take it twice. I have Mondays off, but tonight, I'm going to stay up late (or until I get sleepy) & not open one single book!
     
  24. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Companion

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    This is why I am currently refusing to go get my masters. Well that and I don't want to rack up anymore student loans. School blows. I know it's ironic since you preach the importance of school to your students. But school can be traumatic and very stressful. Every now and then, I'd still wake up to nightmares about studying for exams in college. :lol:
     
  25. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Now you guys see why I mainly post in the Teacher Time Out section.
     
  26. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I'm the exact opposite. I got my Master's right after undergrad and for a moment, I considered staying and getting my PhD. But, I felt that I was not ready to make that kind of commitment at the age of 23 or commit to living in Michigan for the next 6+ years, so I graduated and started teaching.

    Now, after teaching for a while, I realize I made a mistake (although I still would not want to live in Michigan - too cold). I miss being in school and learning. If I could work full time (not as a teacher) and pursue my PhD full-time, I would. I find teaching to be much more stressful than anything I experienced at school.
     
  27. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Do whatever you need to do to unwind at the end of the day. I also watch a lot of tv because it distracts me from thinking too much about work. I've found that the more I dwell on my job, the more frustrated I become. And since I have to go back the next day, there is no need to get myself worked up.
     
  28. MissCeliaB

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    If you're going to have a career with kids, you're going to need to learn to be more comfortable working with them, and understand that your perfect vision of a child exists very rarely in nature. Most kids are active, messy, and noisy. They make mistakes, most that are little, some that are big, and many that, are adorable. Teenagers are kids, and even my roughest students, who have been in jail and may be in jail again, have wonderful and fun things about them. Over the past few years, even before this job, you don't seem to find any joy in children. It could be that you haven't spent much time around them, or don't have any nieces or nephews you are close to. You should really evaluate if SLP is something you want to do. You don't seem to have a passion for the subject matter, or for the people involved. Would it be better to abandon a degree in progress than to keep investing money and time in something you don't enjoy and may never enjoy.

    You also said you don't have time to study to improve your job performance, but to me that is a vital part of any job in education, and is part of the minimal standard I have for professionalism in an educator (or really employee of any kind in any job.) Most teachers I know are passionate about their jobs and want to do whatever it takes to do the best job possible, even if they are still in grad school (and many are, including me.)
     
  29. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I have always been a strong advocate for self-care. Many of my posts to new teachers have been along the lines of, "Don't take work home with you. Spend time with friends, read a good book, do something that you enjoy." I stand by that advice in most cases. Here, though, it doesn't work. Ms. I is struggling, and struggling severely. To me it seems that there exists a relatively simple fix in the form of some outside research/reading, something that can be done in less than an hour per day for a couple of weeks. Why not buckle down and do that, knowing that it will improve your professional life to the point that you won't be feeling so much stress and frustration?
     
  30. readingrules12

    readingrules12 Aficionado

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    I think you are in a tough situation. I do feel for you. If it was 1973, I'd say you are toast and forget about it. In 2013, you have a lot of ways to learn really quickly how to work with these students. They include doing the following:

    1. There are teachers who have succeeded in your tough environment and have written to tell about it. They share their secrets. One is Paul White. His book White's Rules by Paul D. White would make it a lot easier to succeed with these students. It is a cheap buy on amazon.com

    2. Find the best teacher in the school and take a half day or even a full day and find out he/she does it. Seeing and observing will teach you a lot.

    3. When you still have problems ask on this forum.

    I have never seen any group of students walk into a classroom and behave without some hard work on a teacher's part. That isn't how things go. In your tough spot, you need to work really hard to make it happen. Some face challenges, some make excuses. This is your great test to see what you will do. If you don't really take time to face this challenge and learn, you are facing the worst 8 months for you and the students. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Face the challenge and you won't win every battle, but you can make a difference.
     
  31. mrachelle87

    mrachelle87 Fanatic

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    Ms. I, my daughter is a rule follower and gifted child...but based on your posts, I would throw a fit if you were her speech teacher. I find the comments you make about these children ( and yes, my 20 year old son is still a child) sickening!
     
  32. ku_alum

    ku_alum Aficionado

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    Excuses
    Excuses
    Excuses

    Fish or cut bait, Ms. I.

    Based on all of your posts, I hope you cut bait.

    Given all of your posts, I don't think there is a place for you in any career that involves "helping." Helping requires compassion and empathy. You have neither. Or, at least not enough to allow you to commit.
     
  33. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    MsI~aren't these students required to have a certain amount of minutes per week for your services? If you send them back to class early for misbehavior (and you have every right to do so) then that cuts down on the minutes they're receiving. If that time is not made up somewhere down the line, then their IEP is not being met and that could be the district and you in due process if a parent were to push the issue. And honestly, I'm confused. You say in one post that you have both elem and HS students but don't like working with either group but then you say you want to work with children. What environment do you think you would work best in?
     
  34. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Thanks to those who are sensitive to what I'm going through.

    In schools, kids have 50 speech sessions or less, so as you can see when there's 180+ school days, that's plenty of room that allows for them to be out for various reasons. Since I'm not at 2 different schools like I used to be before, I have more chances of making up sessions if they're starting to become too absent/unavailable. Regarding this particular workplace, I was told they just wouldn't have a speech teacher this year at all if I hadn't come along, so I have no idea how they handle that legally. Again, this school isn't part of a district.

    To answer your question stg, the work environment I had at my last job was nice. I enjoyed it & the kids.

    readingrules12, thanks for informing me about that book! And regarding #2, that would be nice to ask for advic, but ALL the other teachers there (about 6 of them) are all new this year too & one of them already quit.

    I like the field I'm in. It's interesting & rewarding. I just dislike the current work environment, but I'll make it work while I'm there. I just have to build more tolerance. I needed to mainly vent during this first full month of school. Having Mondays off really helps me get through this.

    OK, this thread's run it's course. I requested to move it.
     
  35. joeschmoe

    joeschmoe Companion

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    Meh. If you work in education, you can understand how diverse the situation can be. No two situations are exactly the same so I am not going to sit here and act like I completely understand Ms. I's situation.

    We can preach all day and night about how wonderful kids are and it's on us, the teachers, to bring the best out of them. But the real world is a much scarier place and some kids are just assholes. As much as Ms. I has come off sounding aggressive and defensive, it isn't right for many of you to come off as self-righteous either.

    Teaching is an honorable profession, but some teachers take it too far in their head. Anyone that doesn't show your level of compassion is suddenly not fit. Silly.:lol:
     
  36. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    Sep 23, 2013

    :thumb::thumb::thumb:

    My only question is, did you not know the reputation of the school when you took the job? You have been in the education field for 10 or so years in the area, shouldn't you have at least heard of the school previously. I know what schools in the entire state of Louisiana that I would not want to teach at. Granted California is bigger but if the school is in the nearby vicinity of your house, had you never heard of its reputation before going there.
     
  37. MissCeliaB

    MissCeliaB Aficionado

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    Sep 23, 2013

    I think that ku_alum was considering Ms. I's posts going back for years, when she has come across as questionably professional (and for that matter self-righteous) on numerous occasions. I don't think this is all based on this one incident, at least it isn't for me. I've noticed a pattern in Ms. I's posts which lead me to believe that her heart just isn't in education or working with children, but someone feels stuck with her chosen career path.

    I know plenty of teachers who aren't overly caring toward their students, and I know plenty of students who are just jerks, and make life miserable for teachers. But I have never encountered a teacher who seems to think that an entire group of children is not worth working with because of their behaviors. That, to me, is unprofessional. I see nothing wrong with realizing that a certain population is not your preferred population. I do see something wrong with not taking steps to improve the situation, be it by leaving the situation, focusing on developing skills for dealing with it, or whatever it may take.
     
  38. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Sep 23, 2013

    chemteach55, I know it's impossible to read all my posts, but here's what I said in one post or another: I had never heard of the school whatsoever before I started working there.

    It's actually in a different county from me, so no, I'm not familiar with the area of the school. The surrounding neighborhood is not bad. The school doesn't even have a website when I tried Googling it.

    A SLP colleague I keep in touch with knew I was looking for work this summer for the new school yr & said she has a place. She didn't say anything really about it. I wanted to meet her there to observe in early summer. The school looked run-down, but I wanted to see what it was about. The few students there at the time seemed OK & I thought I don't know about this, but I'll give it a shot. I taught several days in the summer & it went OK. When I started in July, I see all the teachers 6 or 7 are all new faces. I gradually start learning (negative) things as the days went in Sept. I don't even have a designated room. I have to fish around each day with my roller cart of materials to find a place after the room they set me up in at first wasn't available anymore.
     
  39. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    Sep 23, 2013

    MissCeliaB, long ago, I said that teaching wasn't my passion, so that's no surprise to those here. Between working with children & adults, I'd choose kids. That's why I've always had positions where it's pull-out & I work with them in small groups for short periods of time (if you've noticed)...much less chances of behavioral problems.

    Sure, I like kids...when they want to be helped & are not behavior problems or total nightmares. I'd never want a whole class all day of 30 kids & I've said that on this bord before too (although I have my mult subj cred & only have experience with it from student teaching). I did work with a 3rd grade class once when student teaching & they were excellent! I think 3rd grades the best. I never wanted to work with high schoolers, but maybe 1-on-1 with them may not be bad. Didn't exactly ask for the most ill-behaved ones that have been kicked out of their other schools for whatever reasons though.

    Sure, there's been times when I've worked with a really nice bunch of kids, generally the ones on the caseload that I see in small groups. It's been pleasant & I've gotten them little gifts before for holidays, etc.

    I seem to enjoy grades 2-6 the best IN SMALL GROUPS, that is. I've worked with toddlers at age 18 mos & pre-school kids too. Too young, squirrely, etc. for me. I like kids still young enough to be impressionable & listen to the teacher & have respect, yet who I can converse with & share my knowledge & they do what they're told. I had those kinds of kids the last 2 yrs. Call me picky.
     
  40. bison

    bison Habitué

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    Sep 23, 2013

    The thing is, your expectations are unrealistic. You can't work with kids and expect them to be well behaved all the time.
     
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