Asked to Resign Question

Discussion in 'New Teachers' started by canman1971, May 6, 2008.

  1. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    May 6, 2008

    Hello all, I am new to the board and new to teaching. Here is my question, which I have seen is quite common. I was given the option to resign rather than be non-renewed. This came out of the blue. I have never had any issues. I coach 3 sports there and my students/players love me. I have already resigned, and the interview process is going quite well. So here is my question; What legally can a principal say about me when they call the school asking why I was leaving or what they thought about me? I have very strong references from many of my colleagues. They ask for 3 and I provide 5. Now, I was told that they cannot say I wasn't going to be renewed. Is that right? And, if so, how the hell would I know what was said on the phone? I'm really glad I'm leaving, because the school is a freaking disaster, although I love my students/players and will miss them greatly. Thanks in advance for the advice.
     
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  3. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    All they can say is that you worked from this date to this date, and that you resigned, not the reason.
     
  4. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    But do I really know what she would say? I read my summative report and it is filled with lies. I still have no idea why. No warning. No, "hey, you should work on this." Everyone at my school is just stunned.
     
  5. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Have you sat down with your principal to go over the summative eval?

    She is bound by law to only give those details.
     
  6. Superteacher81

    Superteacher81 Comrade

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    My AP told me that they can only verify employment. No details beyond that.
     
  7. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    I wrote a two page letter detailing all the lies, but remained very professional about it and let it be known I was not mad, but saddened that she needed to take this course of action rather than talk to me. And I got no response, which I expected. I thought maybe she would meet with me to actual communicate and be professional, but those are things she is not capable of and I couldn't sit there in a discussion with her. I am already gone and really don't care what she thinks anymore. My wife, also a teacher there, offered her resignation the same day. Although hers wasn't requested.
     
  8. Ms. I

    Ms. I Maven

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    May 7, 2008

    It seems like the membership of this non-rehired club is growing greater by the day. It happened to me last school yr & we read more posts about it on this board all the time.
    I guess all we can do is hope that the principal won't say anything detrimental to the next prospective employer. I, too was more concerned about how to answer on interviews when they ask why I was at my last district for only a year. When my principal told me I wouldn't be rehired, all she said was that I wasn't a good fit, but I don't think saying that something isn't a good fit is the best answer. I honestly don't know what the best answer is.

    SO now both you & your wife are out of work! That's rough! Good luck!
     
  9. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    May 7, 2008

    no rhyme - no reason

    As self-appointed president of the newly-fired club, I can truly say there is no sense in this nonsense.

    First, on the professional level:

    A school has the option of inviting you :confused: to resign, because they know that looks better in your case. Once you are officially discharged, that sends a red flag to everyone you meet. It says without question, something is wrong with you. The only safe answer in this situation is a layoff due to student population or school-wide changes. If this happens, you are in the clear.

    If you quit, they know they don't have to pay you unemployment insurance either. They want this.

    If you are fired, they must prove why...and they don't want to do this because they don't want to get sued. And, they don't want to pay unemployment.

    Second, on the personal level..

    You are hurt, confused, embarassed...and probably calling and writing everyone you know. It is getting you nowhere. What is wrong with me? You wonder out loud! Do you have a big sign that says KICK ME!??

    Third, family and friends...

    They try to help, but like the loss of a home, relationship, or life...nobody can truly understand how you feel except for ...well us! So as much as it helps to talk, at some point, you must distant yourself so you won't burn bridges, or annoy people. they want to help so they show up every other day with wonderful leads that you would never consider, but in their minds, they are helping. Of couse you should be happy they have this data entry job for $5.60 hr, at the edge of the expressway! It's a job! They don't get it.

    the law says...

    A company is not allow to say anything one way or the other. They are only obligated to verify dates of employment, title and salary. You could be fired and they will say you quit. there is no way you will ever know, unless you disguise your voice and pretend to be an employer and call yourself. If you are really good, ask your coworkers to get a copy of the letter they circulate that tells your poor students that you left them! :unsure:

    The best solution is what you have: Good references who will say only what you know..."Good worker, stays out of trouble, does excellent job." Nothing more, nothing less. I would get a few parents to write letters for you too!

    Schools let people go for various reasons. I should write a book at this point. My guess is, they needed you to fill a void, and once they did...your services were no needed. They brought in their brother/cousin, sister-in-law. They lost the funding. They messed up and won't get the extra money so they can't afford you. They will hire a new teacher because they know you have a Masters and they must pay you more.

    Who knows? Who tells you?

    Real deal?

    Spend your time and energy finding what makes you happy. You will get absolutely nowhere trying to figure out what they will say.

    Unless...

    You want to sue.
    you see a pattern.
    You think you have a chance to come back.
     
  10. RainStorm

    RainStorm Phenom

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    May 7, 2008

    This is a catch 22. Every employment application you fill out for a public school will ask for your last supervisor as a reference. Most places don't care too much how many glowing references you have, they are only interested in talking to your last supervisor. I mean, anyone can find 5 friends to give them glowing references! They want to hear from the person who supervised you.

    If that person gives you a good reference, great! Most won't give you a bad one, because they worry about the legal implications of it. But here is what they do -- they say "I'm not comfortable giving a reference" or they say "It is my policy to not give references...I can only verify dates of employment." when we all know that all principals give references. The potential employer immediately knows the principal wants to give a poor eval but fears the legal ramifications of it. A huge red flag goes up and suddenly your resume goes on the back burner.. way on the back burner.

    If you choose to resign, it is important not to get on the bad side of this person. Keep things as positive as you can while you work out the rest of the school year. If you don't, you might feel better for having voiced your opinion -- but it will cost you in the long run. Never burn your bridges!

    Try to get a written reference, if at all possible. ...even if you have to kiss booty...

    Otherwise, your only real hope is to inview with a principal who was once a teacher, who also got screwed-over, and remembers what it was like.

    Good luck!
     
  11. blessedhands

    blessedhands Comrade

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    May 7, 2008

    Very good advice.

    Sorry to hear of the job losses. Seems like the economy is going real bad man even cutting teachers. One time we heard our profession is the least sought after but positions always available. Now all I am hearing is cut them and done-keep the ones with tenure.
     
  12. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    follow up with your references

    I had two references that sucked big time! Employer had me for second interview, then nothing. I asked my uh..friend if anyone called.

    She said, "Yeah, somebody from XYZ school called, and they asked me about your personality. I said well, sometimes you are not smiling, and you seem kinda quiet."

    I said, "And you said that?!" :eek:

    For Pete's Sake! I was applying for a teaching job, not a cheerleader!

    One person said she would write me a letter. then I asked again and she said, "I was told not to write you a letter." :confused:

    Later, she tried to be nice and say, That princpal was really bad news...wasn't she?"

    Hmmmm? Ya think?
     
  13. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Wow, I thought I wrote these words until you mentioned coaching. I also went through the exact same thing back in Feb. It was horrible. Just two days before we had a post-observation meeting and he said how wonderful I was doing. I am still very angry and mad, but I also decided that something good will come out of this. I decided to go back to school and pursue a science credential. I will sub in the mean while. I think I need a break from actual teaching, as sad as it is. I am a great teacher. My parents and kids love my class and coworkers enjoy working with me. I never cause any trouble and do what I need to do. So, why do I have to go through this? Because of money and politics and getting people he likes into my position.

    Well, I'm sorry what happened to you. 2000s have not been very good. I really hope things get better.
     
  14. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    word to the wise...evaluations are the biggest piece of b/s on the planet.

    does not meet -
    meets -
    adequate -



    how can you use these words to describe a professional person???

    that's like inspector #9 stamping her code on a pair of socks!
     
  15. Budaka

    Budaka Cohort

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    May 8, 2008

    I had this issue too, about what the principal would say. The problem was that some schools ask, " would you rehire this person?" and of course my ex-principal said no. There are many ways of letting the potential employer know that the person was actually asked to resign. I have even filled out applications that said, " have you ever be asked to resign a position?"

    I had one of the positions, where I actually moved to another state and then found that they really only wanted someone for one year.
     
  16. newbie1234

    newbie1234 Companion

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    I have a feeling that a lot of these "requests to resign" are really about the economy, schools'/districts' poor management of funds, and fear that teachers will leave if they know that the school has to make cuts. For some reason, administrators would rather blame teacher performance than admit that they have budget problems. The same thing is happening throughout the corporate world. It's all political.
     
  17. educator

    educator Rookie

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    The evaluation is just a method of determining what areas need improvement.

    In the past, I had to evaluate employees annually, and I used a 1-5 rating. The typical employee averaged between 3 and 3.5 on an evaluation of attitude, punctuality, knowledge, accuracy...etc. To me a 3 meant that the person was doing what they were hired to do in a acceptable manner.

    A 4 was rarely given, and only if an employee accepted responsibility above what was assigned and did well in the assumed role.


    Many employees were sensitive to the evaluation process, because they thought that if they performed to standard that should make them great.

    I never asked anyone to resign because of financial reasons. If I layed them off, they got unemployment.

    I'm just getting ready to begin this second career, and I'm excited and concerned about the climate out there. It seems really strange that with all the talk about teacher shortages, that any teacher would be asked to resign. I'm thinking about subbing or something the first year so that I can get a feel for different schools.

    I may be in big trouble with this move. I had my own business because I lacked the ability to play "politics" in the corporate world, and I have a funny feeling that I'm about to be more involved in politics than teaching.

    I don't suppose teaching offers any more job security than private industry.

    I'm sorry you weren't renewed, and I wish you luck with your hunt.
     
  18. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    May 8, 2008

    I'm in a similiar scenario. I do worried about politics & job security. I hope the district I will be joining this coming year will be very supportive of its teachers.
     
  19. rchlkay

    rchlkay Companion

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    Add me to the club. I've never been more disappointed. I'm just hoping next year will be better but I'm not sure of where I'm going to land....
     
  20. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I'm sorry to here this, rchlkay! Did they tell you anything?
     
  21. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    AHA! The dreaded temporary job...I knew it!

    I asked one of my principals to write me a ref letter.

    "Master Pre-K will make an excellent teacher, with more careful attention to multicultural settings, and additional experience in education."

    what the hell did that mean? :confused:
     
  22. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    newsflash...politics is alive and well in the schools...

    we are all on Dancing With the Stars...and few of us will get a 10. That would mean admin had nothing to do!

    Everyone gets at least one NI (needs improvement) from what I've seen... :unsure:

    The union prez complained about the layouts, cutbacks, and guess what...

    he got a pink slip too!

    Notice of non-renewal...
     
  23. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Here's wishing you a soft landing... :hugs:
     
  24. bunkyb39

    bunkyb39 Rookie

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    May 10, 2008

    I had the same situation this year! I was asked to either resign my position or take the non-renewal route. My principal kept pushing the resignation route. Those of us who were placed in that situation met with the Superintendant and the Educ. Assoc. They told us our options. They said the resignation route if an employeer calls the school the principal can give dates of employment and that you resigned. HOWEVER, the Superintendant said if a future employeer kept pushing and asking questions, they can say you were asked to leave. Plus, a lot of principals give away the situation in the tone of their voice. But he said most P's will try to help you get a job.

    I was let go due to a troublesome student in my class whose Grandfather is the cities Fire Chief. They never got along with the P but I was fine with them. They caused a lot of problems for her so the easiest thing was to get rid of me. Sad part is, that student will not be back next year.

    I have a lot of support from my colleagues and they are as shocked and saddened about the situation. I have been told it was the wrong decision. I am fine with it now because I was treated like_ _ _ _. Was so stressed I lost 10+ pounds. Off to find something better. Oh, and I took the non-renewal route. I didn't resign like she wanted. It would have been easier for her for me to resign...plus it wasn't my idea to leave.
     
  25. TeachinHicks

    TeachinHicks Comrade

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    Add me to the list... :'( I was blindsighted today by my P...she came up and told me we needed to talk. She's had it out for me for quite a while. I have an unsafe classroom according to her, still not sure why! Hopefully mine goes in my file as a resignation. I made sure to fill it out and return it today since the board meeting was tonight. Then I called our Beginning teacher coordinator to make sure I did the right thing...back to the job search....
     
  26. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    welcome to the club...
    crying only allowed at night
    must hit the streets mon, wed & fri
    tue & thu, regroup, do laundry, check budget
    come here to check in, vent and share
    carry your cell phone at all times, on vibrate

    you are not alone..
     
  27. myKroom

    myKroom Habitué

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    I think I could be on this bandwagon soon!! I think my principal is just waiting in the wings to give me this news. He officially told me that that he is recommending me for a 3rd year on probation for absolutely no reason!! He claims I need to work on my pacing...funny never was an issue in the last year and a half...could it be that he is trying to cover his behind for not getting my observations done on time???? Who knows!! Probationary status stinks big time!!!

    I think he is threatened by me because I stand up for what my students need...I don't back down...I tell it like it is and don't play around!! Gee...isn't that my job??? Or do I have this profession wrong?!
     
  28. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    One teacher I know was written up by the P for standing up for the children. It's too bad that some Ps do this.
     
  29. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    Thanks for all the support, advice, and shared stories. It seems that the wrong people are normally making the decisions of what is best for students. Anyway, I am happy to announce that I was offered a contract today at a school. One of the first I interviewed at, over a month ago, which has been stressful. I am excited as I have heard wonderful things about the school and the district. It'll be different going from 9th grade to 7th, but I used to teach 8th, so I'm thrilled.
     
  30. Teachling

    Teachling Groupie

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    What a great happy ending to your saga! Congratulations!!
     
  31. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Congrats, canman! Did your wife get a job at the same district?
     
  32. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    No, she is returning to the school that she worked at in the past. So, good all around, although I will miss working with her.
     
  33. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Congrats to her as well!
     
  34. 1angel

    1angel Rookie

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    Going back to the post about teachers getting written up--I have never understood getting 'written up'. Talk about an inappropriate way to deal with another adult. I know the economy is tough, but I tell you what if someone ever tried to write me up, I would be out the door. That is one thing that just drives me up the wall and why people willing sign those things is beyond me! You cannot be forced to sign them and I sure never would. Anyway that's me rant!
     
  35. wunderwhy

    wunderwhy Comrade

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    Congrats canman, or should I say notcannedanymoreman? :)

    1angel, I never really thought about how weird this would be to me now, but when I was a first year teacher at the awful middle school, a girl with a history of physical assault and being shuffled from one school to the next threatened me. The AP, who was also new that year, just talked to her and let it be at that. A bunch of veteran teachers told me this was against the code of conduct and that I should tell the AP that the code of conduct suggested expulsion, so I did. I definitely felt like the school didn't value my safety when they just "talked" to her.

    So anyway, the AP told me that he could put a letter in my file for questioning his authority, but he wouldn't because he knew I was just "being used as a pawn by veteran teachers to push [him] around." Huhwuh? I looked at her file. She had physically assaulted a student. She had been kicked out of two other middle schools.

    And I didn't complain to somebody above him, right? I went and addressed it with him personally. What an idiot. And even if I had been out of line, in what kind of job do you not talk to the person and say, ya know, you shouldn't have questioned me like that? Especially a first year teacher? To just run off and put a letter in somebody's file (not that he did that, but even to mention it) . . . no wonder he handled the student situation poorly. And of course, he's now principal of an elementary school.
     
  36. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    yeah...I feel ya...

    I truly understand now, people only want me for my certificate and title...

    Master Pre-K

    they don't want me to do anything...just roll over and play dead, while they collect funds. I am getting paid, so what is the problem???..:unsure:
     
  37. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Yay!!! congratulations...now you must make a taxable donation to each of us...

    :whistle:
     
  38. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    They put in your file anyway...and it looks worse when you don't respond.

    so..I give them a piece of my mind..since it's in my file...


    "This response is in reaction to the inappropriate and misguided comments that have been written above. I do not agree nor understand the nature of these comments. I am signing under protest and plan a rebuttal in the near future."
     
  39. canman1971

    canman1971 Rookie

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    May 15, 2008

    My, my how things just seem to happen for a reason. I actually got a different job offer in school district that is one of the best in the state. So, I actually had to turn down the other offer, which I never thought I would have to do. Thanks again for everyone's support and kind words.
     
  40. WaterfallLady

    WaterfallLady Enthusiast

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    May 15, 2008

    Yah, I am a member of the canned club, too. I had a REALLY strange situation if you want to see my posting. I was just hired by a much better job too. Six miles from where I was planning to move and a maximum 12 kids in each class. The pay cut is very minute, and my happiness will make up for that.
     
  41. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    May 16, 2008

    yw can...

    well, someday we will all look back and laugh about this..
     

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