Article: A second language for every high school student

Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by Caesar753, May 10, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    209

    May 10, 2011

    I tend to agree with Caesar. While children do often pick up language fairly well, they're under very different pressures than adults to do so. A child between 0-5 is pretty much concentrating on language learning. A 30-year old adult probably has a job.

    Also, we were spending a lot of time in the car a few months ago, so we bought a CD on learning Chinese. Spoken Chinese is not very similar to spoken Japanese, so my kids and I were on a pretty even starting level (my wife was not -- since Japanese has fewer actual sounds in it, distinguishing some different sounds is still difficult for her). Now it's several months later, and I'm certainly as competent as my kids in Chinese (which isn't to say I know much -- basic introductions and such -- but I've retained more than all of them despite having less listening time. I'm pretty good at languages, but my oldest is probably pretty close and has a steeltrap memory*).

    There's a lot that's not known about the brain, though, so I'd say the jury's still out.

    I'd also add that a lot of kids who grow up multilingual, even while completely fluent, are sometimes behind in areas where only people who know them intimately over the long term (i.e., parents) can perceive. My kids all went to Japanese preschool, and live here in the US. My oldest did not receive any ELL support when he went to public Kinder; they viewed him as fluent. Nevertheless, I knew he wasn't quite where he "should" be given his native ability, and knew that if he were monolingual he would be more advanced. Even now he's better than average, but I know the lag had an effect (it doesn't bother me because I have no reason to believe it's a permanent effect, and even if it were the benefits of being multilingual outweigh any negatives).

    * my advantages over the oldest are better focus and the use of downtime practice.
     
  2. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,015
    Likes Received:
    1,825

    May 10, 2011

    Our students begin French instruction in grade 4. From grades 4 to 8, they have at least 200 minutes/week of French. Grade 9 French is a mandatory high school credit; French, and often one other language, is offered through Grade 12. Having grown up with this, it's hard to imagine not learning at least the basics of another language.
     
  3. husker_blitz

    husker_blitz Companion

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 10, 2011

    Caesar already hit the high points. I do not consider a foreign language a core class like math, science, and Language arts, etc. So in that regard, my comment was directly related to foreign languages.

    Just so I'm clear, I would encourage any student to take foreign language...I just don't believe a school should mandate it.

    Nor do I feel we can get to fluency in that second language. And if that is the case, then I just don't see the justification of the mandate of it for graduating. In part I also see the issue of practicality. Honestly, how many students use that language later on in life? Very few. In that regard, I think auto mechanics is much more helpful for students to know as it could save them money down the road fixing their own vehicles.

    If we look at the results for language arts across the nation, studies have shown it's not great. Across the nation people are wanting reading scores to go up and here others are arguing adding a second language. I just can't fathom that at this point in time.

    Lastly, I do feel kids should have some say on what language they learn secondly from their own. But how is that going to work out? Schools cannot afford a teacher for each language and I just don't know if some Rosetta Stone application is going to do much good.

    That's my ramblings about it for now. :whistle:
     
  4. porque_pig

    porque_pig Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 10, 2011

    Caesar hit the high points in terms of reasons why younger language learners are not necessarily at an advantage over older students, but from what I gather (correct me if I'm wrong, Caesar) she does believe in making foreign language a part of the high school curriculum.

    Most high schools offer several foreign languages for students to choose from, and the variety is increasing. In that sense, students DO have a lot of options. A lot of middle schools have exploratory foreign language programs where students are exposed to several different languages on a very basic level. I'm not sure how I feel about exploratory programs, but they DO give students the opportunity to pursue a language they enjoy later on.

    Also, like some of us have already said, studying a foreign language improves performance in nearly every other subject. Instead of focusing on spending more time on reading, perhaps we should be focusing on lots of other subjects (foreign language, music, art, etc.) that are good for students' brains. I wonder if we're not looking at education from a big-picture standpoint.

    I do like the idea of making auto mechanic classes available to students. However, one could argue that those classes wouldn't be any more universally useful than foreign language classes (many students will never own a car or have a driver's license--only three of my 35 college students have cars or licenses, but most of them will go on to study a foreign language).

    I don't know if students can achieve fluency in the high school level (they can come surprisingly close), but with a solid background, they will be able to eventually get there with college courses and studying abroad. Three semesters of Spanish can make it possible for students to maintain a basic conversation with a native speaker. Also, I will never be a mathematician, but I'm glad I took pre-cal in high school.

    Are there other classes you think students should take that would be universally useful? You mentioned auto mechanics classes (which would be useful in my home state, but not necessarily where I teach now). Anything else you think students should be exposed to that SHOULD be mandatory? I'd kind of like to see personal finance classes in schools.

    I obviously value foreign language classes at the high school level as something that would be useful to all students. I'm just curious if there are things that you think would be more useful.
     
  5. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 10, 2011

    Sorry, I have not seen enough compelling evidence that suggests to me that we shouldn't start teaching foreign language in the younger age. From research I have read about the brain, I see that the best time to start is when students are young. As I have said many times before, almost every single country in the world sees the value of being at least bilingual, except the US. And, I really do believe that fluency is an attainable goal, but we set the bar way too low to make it a reality.
     
  6. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    29,756
    Likes Received:
    1,157

    May 10, 2011

    I agree that the quote from Sousa confuses absence of accent with language proficiency overall. Graduate-school programs in linguistics in the US tend to include international students whose accents clearly mark them as non-native speakers of English. One had to explain an idiom or two on occasion, but otherwise they were perfectly capable of comprehending and producing not only conversational language but also academic language of a high level of complexity.

    The claim that one can't pick up the phonology of another language variety is absurd. I knew that a college friend of mine was truly serious about the guy from British Columbia that she'd met on vacation when her <ou> diphthongs before voiceless consonants suddenly started sounding "Canadian".

    In fact, one can make a case that retaining a bit of an accent is a positive advantage. One thinks of the story of the American woman who adored France and all things French and learned to speak French without an accent. In due course she married a Frenchman and moved with him to a suburb of Paris. There she was miserable: it seems that the neighbors wrote her off as a rather dull Frenchwoman, rather than realizing that she was an exceptionally skilled American speaker of French.

    Let me hasten to add that I do not mean that we shouldn't teach world languages to younger children. I think we should. But if we do, we need to do so for reasons that aren't specious.
     
  7. porque_pig

    porque_pig Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 10, 2011

    :yeahthat:
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,535
    Likes Received:
    2,590

    May 10, 2011

    Absolutely correct. I am fundamentally in favor of requiring students to study a foreign language.
     
  9. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 10, 2011

    Well, with all due respect, experts debate this very issue, so I am not sure one can say these are specious reasons. Additionally, I wrote but one quote from Sousa as I had to hand-write it, but there is so much more to be said about the brain and how it learns, and I cannot begin to include it all here. I think an understanding of the workings of the brain might better clear the reasons why many, many researchers believe earlier is better.

    But, because it is such a debated issue, we are not going to settle anything on this forum, so I say we should just agree to disagree.
     
  10. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,535
    Likes Received:
    2,590

    May 10, 2011

    I wholeheartedly agree that we should teach foreign languages to younger students. By posting what I did, I wasn't meaning to suggest that young learners can't or shouldn't learn a foreign language. I was just trying to respond to claims that young learners are better learners when it comes to foreign language, which I believe is untrue. With that having been said, even if the subject is challenging, I do completely, 100%, believe that it should be something that is taught in schools at every level.
     
  11. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 10, 2011

    I wondered when this topic would come up. I think we can and we should. I think English should be a requirement for being a citizen in this country. We should not need to have dual lanugage handouts for parents (I don't ever do that) and we should not need to have translators for conferences.

    I have no problem and think it is great if students learn a second language. On the idea of dual language teaching, that I can not support at this time. Learning a second language can be very beneficial, but the primary language we should be using here, especially in the classroom, is English.
     
  12. husker_blitz

    husker_blitz Companion

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 10, 2011

    I've been associated with several schools in my state and saying 'most' isn't accurate here. I also know not all of the middle schools offer foreign language. My school does not. I'm also not sure how a lot of these schools teach the languages. Does each class have a fluent speaker? Very few of the foreign language classes I've seen have a fluent speaker and rely more on outside sources like Rosetta Stone or some teleconference.

    With all due respect, that is not going to happen. America is not going to forsake reading fluency for a second language. I'd much rather a child be completely fluent in their native language than nonfluent in two.

    I'm not sure where you teach, but I find it hard to believe you think most will never own a car or have a license. But if I may ask, for what reason will they study a foreign language? Is that a choice they are making or is it needed to graduate?

    I've met several college students who tool at least three years of foreign language and I don't think either were really fluent. One of those was a co-worker of mine at a library who was also minoring in Spanish and she couldn't understand our Spanish-speaking patrons. That's not fluent in the way I interpret the word.

    That depends. Useful could include a lot of things, but I am not suggesting auto mechanics should be mandatory to graduate. And while the schools in my area may not offer a lot of options for foreign languages, almost all do have a personal finance class of some sort.

    Again, I'm not decrying foreign languages being taught. I just do not feel there is enough non-contradictory evidence to justify it being mandated by the states.
     
  13. porque_pig

    porque_pig Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 10, 2011

    I'm sorry to hear there aren't a lot of options for students in your district. Every high school I know of offers at least three foreign languages, and many offer more. I completed my student teaching semester in a rural school districts with very few resources, but students could choose from Latin, French or Spanish. I admit that most middle schools do NOT have multiple language options, but I was merely pointing out a system that would expose students to a variety of foreign languages. Just because it isn't in place now doesn't mean it wouldn't work.

    I agree that most students with three semesters of Spanish do not have a lot of communication skills, and this is a shame. With a skilled teacher, however, the situation would be totally different. Foreign language education is embarrassingly old-fashioned, and students aren't being taught in a way that is effective in most schools. Many foreign language teachers teach the way THEY were taught (I am sometimes guilty of this myself), but that may not be the best way to teach. I'm also shocked to hear that most foreign language teachers in your area are not fluent in the language they are teaching. I can assure you that this is not the norm. However, I think foreign language teachers should have better training. With a qualified teacher, students can accomplish great things in the classroom, and I have witnessed this personally. I understand that you see problems with the current system, but we can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    Also, to respond to your question about the cars: I teach in Boston. In a lot of urban environments, many people never pursue driver's licenses because it is expensive to own and park a car. A parking spot in the city can cost several hundred dollars a month, and many people simply aren't willing to pay it. Many of these students will, however, pursue medical degrees, international business, literature and political science, all of which require some knowledge of foreign language.

    I think you may be misreading my statements about fluency. Native language fluency and foreign language study go hand in hand. Studying a foreign language increases your understanding of your own language. I think it's unreasonable to suggest that requiring students to take two foreign language classes in high school will inhibit their ability to speak English.

    What exactly is the contradictory research you see regarding the value of foreign language education? I'm not aware of any evidence that shows that studying a foreign language is NOT helpful. Did I miss something?
     
  14. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,952
    Likes Received:
    1,141

    May 10, 2011

    I agree that citizens should be at least proficient in English, but let's not forget, a lot of immigrants will not become citizens.
    Honestly, one can live a good life with the greencard, and citizenship will not necessarily improve the status. Most people who become citizens do it because it's a requirement for certain jobs (state or government jobs, etc), help with certain benefits, or the pride to be able to become an American citizen, etc.

    A lot of places offer free/ low cost ESL classes for adults, but I don't think we can make them take English.
     
  15. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 10, 2011

    Then the greencard or any form of work Visa should require learning the language. Give them a time limit to begin taking classes and pass the classes. If that is not met, they have to go back.
     
  16. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,015
    Likes Received:
    1,825

    May 11, 2011

    We have many parents who struggle with the English language, but want to be involved with their children's education. We will provide material in their native language (when possible) and will do all we can to access interpreters and translators for our families. I will not tell a parent who is working 2 full-time jobs, and feeling guilty that their child is struggling in school, that they need to do more by taking required English classes.
     
  17. midwestteacher

    midwestteacher Cohort

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 11, 2011

    In this day and age of tight budgets, there is no way small schools like mine can justify hiring two full time foreign language teachers. For our combined JH/HS, we have 3 English teacher, 2 1/2 social studies teachers, 2 math teachers, 2 science teachers, etc. To ensure that kids could take four years of a FL, we would have to hire two full time teachers. Which teachers do we get rid of because the budget is stretched pretty thin? Do we need the band/chorus teacher, how about the art teacher?
    In addition, students are already required to have 24 credits to graduate and at my school, they can earn a maximum of 28 credits without attending summer school. Their schedules are pretty full at this point and we just can't squeeze in another 4 required credits.
     
  18. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011


    That may be the case where you are. I find in my area that most of the parents who don't speak the language are also here illegally. Quite often they don't take an interest in their students schooling either.


    As for high schools requiring foregin language classes; when I went to high school, we had to take 2 courses of a foreign language. I took 3 and to this day, I can only say a handful of words in that language. I took it because I had to, but in the end I don't use any of it. I know some students who have gone through that school in just the past couple of years and they still have that requirement. To have foreign language classes at a high school, the school needs to have teachers who can speak both that language and English close to fluently.
     
  19. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,952
    Likes Received:
    1,141

    May 11, 2011

    What about those people who are over 50? Debate the age / cognitive skills or not, but for someone that is older, it is definitely harder to learn the language. How about the refugees that come pouring into this country, and often they're ove1 50-60? There's no way you could require them to "learn English or go back".

    And by the way there is no official language in the United States. It's not English, official language doesn't exist. That's why utility bills are often printed in several languages or translation is available.
     
  20. porque_pig

    porque_pig Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 11, 2011

    If I remember correctly from another thread from several months ago, some individual states have declared official languages. However, I agree with you that if no official language has been declared, you can't require non-English speakers to learn English.
     
  21. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,535
    Likes Received:
    2,590

    May 11, 2011

    How exactly do you know that they are here illegally? Have you asked to see their papers?

    I think it's extremely inaccurate to say that non-English speaking parents don't take an interest in their child's education. Even in your neck of the woods, wherever that may be, I find that highly unlikely.

    By the way, you do realize that most ELL students are born and raised in the United States, right? I know that some people do have xenophobic tendencies towards immigrants, but when we're talking about ELLs, they're usually as American as you or me. There's nowhere for them to "go back" to--this is their home, where they have every right to live even if they don't speak the same language as you.
     
  22. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,015
    Likes Received:
    1,825

    May 11, 2011

    Many of our families who don't speak English are not very visible in the school, not because they aren't interested, but they are intimidated. Most of the communication about their children's education is in a language they don't understand; report cards and conferences are filled with jargon that means nothing to them; they feel that they should be doing more than they are. I think that we need to do all that we can to make them feel that they are important to us.
     
  23. 3Sons

    3Sons Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,043
    Likes Received:
    209

    May 11, 2011

    My wife has a green card because she's married to me. While she would likely pass English language classes (she has an Associate's), if she didn't have "acceptable" English you'd want her sent back?
     
  24. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    12

    May 11, 2011

    Very well said! Most of the students in my ELL class have been here since birth!

    Also, if we're going to require a language proficiency test for citizenship, I've got quite a few students who were raised in English speaking homes who might not pass!
     
  25. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    Well, we do know there is a significant amount of illegals here in the state. I have had cases where some students have gone on vacation to Mexico and they were not able to get back right away for this issue. I have had some students tell me about family members of theirs that they know are illegal as well. So, no I have not asked for their papers, but I have had evidence to what I stated.
    I also know that many of the parents who do not come into the school, don't come to meetings, and don't participate with their kids very much are those that do not speak English, or don't speak it very well.
    I understand that many of the kids were born here, but that does not mean that their parents were. Their parents should have to go back if they are not here legally.
     
  26. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,506
    Likes Received:
    12

    May 11, 2011

    What if they are here legally and still can't speak the language? Should they have to go back, too?

    Lack of language does not equal illegal entry into our county.
     
  27. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    My opinion is that you should have to speak the language to be permanently legally here. (No I am not talking about speak it as a first language speaker does)
     
  28. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011


    As the teacher, I don't think it is any of your concern who is or who is not documented. That is left for ICE to deal with, not you. Many of your students were likely born in the US, and whether their parents are here with or without papers should make no difference to you. And I will also say that when I taught in the US, my best students were my ELs, and most of the time if their parents didn't appear present in the school, it wasn't because they didn't care about their child's education, but they were working 2 or 3 jobs to support their family. Perhaps in your case the parents don't attend meetings with you because they sense your negative attitude and would rather stay far away. I can't say I blame them.
     
  29. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    I think it should be everyones concern who is and who is not documented. When I had good evidence that someone was illegal, I have reported it on a few occasions.
    I would say I have had some ELL students who were really good workers in the classroom and some that are not. I think it is right on par with the rest of the students in the classroom. I am not making a distinction there. When I talk about some of the parents that don't come into the school, I knew of one that was illegal, they never came into the classroom for meetings, never spoke on the phone with them (language barrier). I was told by someone who did speak with them (translator) and she would tell me they were scared to come into a public government building because they were illegal. I am not making these things up, it is a serious problem we have here.


    Again, I believe knowing more than one language can be beneficial and would see no problem with younger students in this country having to take foregin language classes (thinking outside of the budget box here), but all students here need to have a strong grasp of the English language before moving on in school.
     
  30. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011

    I am sure you have, Bob, probably not realizing that maybe everyone else in that family were legal citizens, and you might have broken up their family. And, I am from CA, so you don't have to convince me of the problem the US has created by turning a blind eye and employing undocumented workers and then wondering where they all came from. It certainly isn't any of your business who is or isn't documented from the standpoint of your teaching profession. If you want to make it your concern, go work for ICE or the border patrol. Then you can really go and follow your true passion, hunting down the "illegals."


     
  31. Linguist92021

    Linguist92021 Phenom

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,952
    Likes Received:
    1,141

    May 11, 2011

    I don't think a teacher should worry about who is or isn't illegal. I would certainly not report it, and probably wouldn't even want to know. As a teacher - or in my case, future teacher - all I care about is my students' mental, emotional and physical well being. If I knew a child was abused at home, that's another story, but having illegal parents have nothing to do with me.
    What if they were homeless? If I found out a student is sleeping in a car, or behind the dumpster in the alley with his parents, would i report them for child neglect? No way, I would try to refer them to places where they could maybe get some help.

    It's already so hard for some of the students to trust teachers and authorities - reporting illegals will definitely not help.

    I think the system with knowing the language and becoming a green card holder / citizen is perfectly fine. Obviously one should have a basic knowledge of the English language if he wants to become a citizen, and having to pass the citizenship class sort of takes care of that.
    As far as the green card... what if a person is here legally, with a green card, but has an extensive community from his ethnic / national background, and chooses to live and work within that community? Even if he doesn't speak a word of English, but works, pays taxes and obeys all laws... what's wrong with that? Send him back? Why?
     
  32. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011

    My daughter, a US citizen, was always considered an "ELL" student in the US because she grew up speaking two languages. In her school, being bilingual meant you were an "ELL". I think it was really a means of collecting more money, in my opinion.

     
  33. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011


    Wow, you are going to try and make me the villian, even though I am not the one breaking the law. Wow. It may not be my concern/business as a teacher, but as a citizen it is very much my concern. Again I believe every citizen should be concerned. Why just leave it up to those working for ICE. Sheriff Joe could use all the help he can get. And please don't use the term "hunting down", that implies somethng much more gruesome and unnecessary.
     
  34. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    I have had similar cases like that and I have made the effort to get those kids out of the ELL program. There are even kids who only speak English, but are put in the ELL program because another language is marked as being spoken at home. I don't see what is necessary about that.
     
  35. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    If you witness or become privy to a crime, would you report it? What level of crime does it have to be for you to report it? I think for many people it comes down to how violent the crime is and the type of crime. To me, this is something that needs to be reported.
    As for your comments about not reporting children who are sleeping behind dumpsters with their parents, I believe legally, we are required to report that.
    I wish that teachers were required to report if they found out parents/students were illegal as well.
     
  36. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011

    I am not trying to make you the villain, I think you did that on your own. You are involving yourself in matters that are not your concern. Sorry if my term "hunting down" offended you, but your posts stating that those who don't speak English should be shipped out offended me, as did the revelation that you turn in your students' parents who you think (or know) are undocumented. Man, it's a good thing that the kind, hospitable Mexicans here don't try to do the same with the thousands of Americans residing here, who might still be struggling with the Spanish language...Or should they be shipped out and sent back to their country??


     
  37. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011

    Well, that comes as a surprise...
     
  38. callmebob

    callmebob Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    6

    May 11, 2011

    See, you may not think it is of my concern, but that is wrong. Not only is there a significant amount of crime that is caused by people who are not legally here, but I also have a personal stake in this controversy of those who can and can not be here legally as well as the language aspect. I would rather not share that story here, but it has hit very close to home and I will admit has caused some serious resentment towards those that come here illegally, stay here, and also do not learn the language or the culture.
     
  39. TamiJ

    TamiJ Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    229

    May 11, 2011

    Well Bob, you and I disagree on the matter. We are lucky enough to be Americans with the freedom to disagree. I respect your right to your opinion, however wrong I think you are. I think we should leave it at that, since we have digressed far from the topic of this thread. Sorry for hijacking!

     
  40. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,416
    Likes Received:
    1,560

    May 11, 2011

    Wait a second. I've been busy for the last day or two. How did this go from a discussion about a language requirement in schools to an argument about immigration?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. catnfiddle,
  2. TeacherNY,
  3. Mrs. K.,
  4. rpan
Total: 314 (members: 6, guests: 284, robots: 24)
test