Discussion in 'Debate & Marathon Threads Archive' started by AdamnJakesMommy, Feb 23, 2014.
Feb 24, 2014
The tone right off the bat was one of superiority/disdain, so no, you're not imagining it.
If I came across that way, that is NOT true and I apologize for it sounding that way.
I approach every situation from my perspective (that's a shocker, right ), and if I were a sub I would want DETAILED plans and I would work my butt off to do everything the way the teacher wants it because it is their room and their kids. That's just me. So based on my perception, I wrote a plan that way.
But again, the primary issue is not having a read aloud. I have kids who are ESL and very LOW readers. They need this. And since I got a great review on their behavior, there really is no reason to have not had it.
Would you have been ok if the sub read it aloud? ( research suggests popcorn reading isn't really the best strategy for comprehension...I know, not the point here, but you might want to think of other ways to help kids navigate complex texts... CCSS calls on all content area teachers to incorporate literacy into their subject areas and unfortunately not all content teachers are aware of best reading practices, nor are they offered pd in this...imagine, if this is true of education professionals how unknowing a sub would be...again, not an excuse to go 'off plan'...)
As far as the math...my kids (grade three) CONSISTENTLY miss directions to do only the left column or the top 5 rows, or only the odd numbers...they just get in a math groove...any chance this happened? Or could have simply been too much time and not enough to do...she's not you...she doesn't know your pacing. Better to leave extra rather than run short and have a sub introduce things you know your kids aren't ready for.
Not trying to be argumentative...just trying to shed some light on why things might have happened the way they did.
Live and learn. Don't have this sub again if you are concerned for how your plans were not followed...and look for places where you can be flexible and places where you have to have plans followed explicitly when planning for a sub. Think about what things can wait for you to get back. Cut pages in half to prevent confusion. Mistakes WILL BE made. Things will not all be gotten to...you need to decide for yourself what is tolerable.
Thanks for this. Eye color being polygenic, I actually knew about and have explained a bit where I could. (There was this blue-eyed client - except that one of the eyes was one-quarter tawny, as though someone had slipped a fat slice of lion eye into the blue-eyed pie.) For the other cases mentioned in the link, though, I for one have some revising-of-'splainin' to do.
I do multiple ways of reading aloud: popcorn, audio from text, me reading it, etc. I always stop after each paragraph and go over each and every key point, we discuss, and I ask probing questions. I have always felt that was sufficient for comprehension, no matter what the read aloud is. I had asked in my plans that there be discussion after each paragraph or two. Over the next few days we normally will take some form of interactive notebook (brief notes) to hammer the points home.
I didn't expect the sub to do a whole lot in the way of discussing in a way like I do it, but a read aloud of some sort is better than just handing them a worksheet.
And for my weekly plans that week, I actually wanted to do the read aloud with ME in the room, but math trumps science everytime--and I just ran out of time in the week. We've lost a bunch of snow days and we are only adding time to the beginning of the school day which does NOTHING to benefit both of my cores in math. So we are punching home math...and science is getting on the back burner. I figured, what a great day to get science in somewhat...since if I had been there it would've been math frenzy...
- Incompetent Subs should be fired. (Should be easy to do IMHO)
- Incompetent Teachers should be fired (Very, very difficult to do IMHO)
I agree that lesson plans should be followed by Subs to the best of their ability. If the lesson plans are well thought out AND the Sub can't follow them then fire the Sub. (They are a burden to the taxpayer.) If the lesson plans are poorly written, not understandable to most ... then fire the teacher. (They too are a burden to the taxpayer.)
You asked if "all subs are like this;" clearly "all" of any group are never "all" alike. Speaking in absolutes is a surefire way of saying something you don't really mean.
Beating on subs who aren't able to defend themselves is a favorite pastime of many teachers across all types of schools. That doesn't make it acceptable.
I agree, but be ready for the tar and feathers to come out ASAP at the implication that there are incompetent teachers anywhere who don't deserve their jobs. This board will circle the wagons around those who will...well, just take a nap while everyone else is circling the wagons around them.
Sometimes, Major, teachers are out on genuine EMERGENCIES....like the teacher in my building who gave birth via emergency C section over the weekend...she wasn't due to go out on leave for a month. let's just say there weren't plans this morning...her team filled in and theyll continue to fill in for the next three days until her LTS is available...Or the teacher whose mom was DYING a few years ago...the grief stricken teacher was at her mom's bedside 24 hours a day for the last three or four days...again, not great plans...between aGREAT sub and a helpful team, things went well...how about the teacher who goes to bed with what she figures is a just cold (despite being coughed on by little Typhoid Mary in her class) takes some NyQuil and wakes up in the morning bleary eyed, running a fever and puking? Should she drag herself to the computer and write awesome plans or just call the sub service and hope the emergency general...very general...plans she wrote back in September will suffice before puking once more and falling back into bed?
Best to just figure most, subs and professional educators, are doing their best...when it's VERY clear that isn't the case, teachers can request to not have those subs and subs can refuse to take a job in such teachers' classrooms. It doesn't mean that sub r that teacher aren't good...just that the pairing wasn't a match.
I've never fully subbed a day, but I once had to sub for a gym class during my prep period since they didn't have a sub. The plans read: put the kids in teams, and have them play a team sport of your choosing in the new gym.
I'm probably the least athletic person you'll meet, but I was able to round up enough equipment to set up for a kickball game. I don't not like having to improvise like that though.
Feb 25, 2014
Are you arguing that this anecdotal evidence of extreme situations proves that there aren't incompetent teachers out there leaving terrible lesson plans?
Can you show me one single poster who has said there are no incompetent teachers and no terrible lesson plans?
I'm pretty sure the post quoted said that "when plans aren't good, it doesn't mean the teacher is bad; it just means they weren't a good match for a particular sub."
Did you need read that?
What? I'm confused...
The question was rhetorical. I KNOW THE ANSWER IS NO. If I were complaining about my husband sitting in the chair refusing to make bottles, I would likely vent in a way of "Are all men like this?" Duh the answer is no.
If I were condescending with a superiority complex I would have taken my issues and made them formal complaints.
Right there what? She just said that most subs and educators are doing their best. Then went on to say that even if a sub and teacher did not get along, it doesn't mean that either is "bad".
What is your point? Why do you always insist on creating controversy where none exists?
Honest Abe there is simply being Mary, Mary, quite contrary..... You'll start to ignore it after awhile.
She did not say, "if sub and teacher do not get along, it doesn't mean either are bad."
She said, "If a sub or teacher isn't effective, the sub/teacher can avoid the other in the future. It doesn't mean either are bad."
Sorry, not being effective means you're "bad." Very nice, I'm sure, but bad. There's no created controversy; this idea that everyone is perfectly capable at their jobs has permeated even discussions like this.
And to the original poster, no, you did not mean it to be a "rhetorical question." You used this thread to bash subs. You think everyone who considers themselves to be superior or carries a condescending attitude around with them would "report/make the complaints formal?"
I believe Thoreau had a saying about this... something about a hobgoblin.
Well...excuse me, that's right, you know me better than I do. You must have esoteric abilities unknown to me since you know me better than I do...
This is an anonymous forum. If I really felt I was superior to subs I would SAY IT. I wouldn't sugar coat it, why would I? What would anybody do to me? Would I get in trouble in some way for saying how I felt on an anonymous forum?? There is no need to be ambiguous or misleading in an anonymous forum. I am saying I don't feel superior to subs because I don't feel superior to subs. And if I did, again, just in case you missed it, I would say it.
I do feel since it is MY classroom, a sub should respect what I have in place in my room. So should the teacher across the hall, or the teacher on another hall if for some reason they were in my classroom teaching my kids. It has nothing to do with "sub" vs "teacher." It is not a matter of superiority or inferiority, it is the difference between being polite and rude. And I won't apologize for it, it is how I feel. Now if that makes me look like I have a superiority complex, well okay--if that's the way you take it.
I was not bashing subs, but if that's what you want to WARP it into, have at it.
ETA: Making a formal complaint would be nothing less than me trying to throw my weight around and belittle someone else. I don't want to nor do I feel compelled to. Why? Because I don't want to cause waves for anybody. If I felt superior, would I care if I caused somebody waves? No, I wouldn't.
But that is my reasoning process. I'm sure you can point out some ways why my reasoning isn't really my reasoning and that I'm really implying something else. Perhaps you can decipher a meaning behind my meaning's meaning and tell me I really meant something else by my ETA.
How do you have normal conversations in real life? I mean honestly, I don't know you and don't care to, but I cannot fathom how you can possibly have normal, healthy conversations. I can see it now:
Person: Hey HT! Nice day out isn't it?
HT: What do you mean nice?
P: Just sayin'...nice weather out...
HT: Yeah, you say nice, but what you really mean is it's crappy out, don't you?
P: No, I was just asking if you...
HT: I know what you're doing. You don't fool me.
P: Um, I was just making conversation...
HT: Well, your conversation is wrong. I've been in many more conversations than you, and I am infinitely better than you at conversing, therefore you are just wrong.
P: Hehe, well never mind then...
HT: Oh, so now you want to argue? Typical.
P: I'm not arguing! I just made a comment about the weather!
HT: No, that's not what you said. You said that it was "nice" out. And we all know by "nice" you meant that you are superior. And you are not. I am, however, because I know what "nice" really is.
HT: Go ahead, call me names. But if you really wanted to know about the weather, you could have just asked.
HT: See, I told you you didn't know anything.
HT: Stop that. THIS is the last word.
Go ahead, report me. Second verse, same as the first...
Never mind...I decided that not only Thoreau, but George Carlin had great things to say about continuing to argue with certain individuals...
Jeez freaking Louise!
Okay, okay, this thread needs to lock before it turns into a beat down or love fest, I'm not sure which.
Separate names with a comma.