Approval of Public Schools at an All Time High

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Tyler B., Sep 5, 2017.

  1. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    That's not what the post she quoted said. What do you mean by politically active beyond voting? How should we counter voices? By yelling at people at board meetings?
     
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  2. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Can you single out an element of the poster's discussion to refute? I thought some good points were made. I might be wrong, but it seems you are attacking the poster and not the poster's opinions.
     
  3. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    This was exactly my view as well. Then the corporate reform movement started attacking my profession using misinformation. I could not stand by silently while this was happening. We educators need to have counter arguments handy and stand up for our profession.
     
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  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Pretty much all of it. Let's start with "actual teachers". As if anyone who disagrees isn't a "real" teacher.
     
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Different opinions and facts aren't an attack on you or your profession.
     
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  6. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    That's fair, and I respect you for standing up for what you believe in. But I disagree with the expectation that all teachers should feel that same as you do, as well as the expectation that any teacher who does happen to feel the same as you should get politically involved. Again, I respect anyone who shows integrity and stands up for what he/she believes in, but I strongly disagree that this should be considered a "duty" of all teachers.
     
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  7. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    I would agree with bella, in that while it's important that we are supportive of each other, of the educational process, etc..., and of course being highly effective teachers, that I think beyond that, it's actually more effective that teacher stand up each for what they believe in based on what they feel most strongly about.

    For example, I'm not comfortable with entering the world of politics, even around education. However, I'm perfectly comfortable and enjoy standing up for my philosophy towards driving success with independent reading and math mindsets, outside of my own use and effective teaching of each.
     
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  8. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    And this would be fine, but for the fact that politicians and their corporate backers are entirely comfortable entering your world and destroying it.

    There is no hole deep enough to hide from this level of evil. I doubt anyone is expecting we all run for office, but instead have sense not to pretend our problems do not exist, nor turn the other cheek when confronted with lies and misinformation.
     
  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Many of our problems are self inflicted
     
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  10. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

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    I suppose that's where I allow my union dues to go to work...
    Even if they are comfortable entering my world, I know I'm not the best to send in the ring to fight back. If a big defensive end is coming at my quarterback, I'm going to put someone there to block him that feels comfortable with it and has the skills needed!
     
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  11. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    And what if the teacher doesn't agree with every little thing? What of teachers who support school choice? What if they want to stand up for the rights of homeechoolers or private schools?
     
  12. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    Oh please. Not the argument for oligarchy trotted out. People of different views arent smart enough to know what's good for them, right? Heaven forbid we allow diversity.
     
  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Like this guy.
     
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  14. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Right. I'm fairly anti-union when it comes to the field of education... I assume that my stance would be considered "anti-teacher" or "anti-public education" by some. However, I'm anything but those two things.
     
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  15. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    I have zero experience with unions. They sound great and all, but at the same time I've always been happy with agreement between employee and employer. Does my contentment mean I am anti-teacher or anti-public education? Does the fact that I think public education is a wonderful thing that should be supported mean I'm not allowed to cheer on homeschoolers and private schools?
     
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  16. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    Come to Fla. Most of our problems originate in Tallacrappy. Morons making policy. Ive been teaching in Fla since the 70s. They are determined to prove the "schools are failing" Most are in love with that Devos where we divide the $$$ up among every little charter and church school till the public schools are done. Funny, our state constitution says the opposite.
     
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  17. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    The narcissism that it takes to call everyone else blind while one goes about believing they alone know the truth is mystifying. However, this is the same person that claims anyone who doesn't toe her line must not be a teacher so it is to be expected at this point.
     
  18. DAH

    DAH Companion

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    We have a majority wins system. And if we have a minority opinion, there's a number of things we can do to persuade others to see things our way. Or, we can just drop-out, go home and pout about it. This is why so many families, businesses, and nations split, because they don't agree with the direction the others are taking it in. Teachers are good at doing this when the majority doesn't get their way, (strike).
     
  19. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    I used to feel this way, not even long ago. But I've watch NEA sit by and do nothing while my state falls apart—do nothing more than collect dues, that is. The few ads they run are so timid and cautious that viewers have nothing to counter the garbage coming from the other end of the spectrum.

    NEA isn't going to protect education. They will, however, collect dues and publish newsletters.
     
  20. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    People who support public education should be politically involved. By this I mean they should vote and contact their lawmakers. The only thing that speaks louder than the millions in the charter/voucher industry are voters who make their opinion known.
     
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  21. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Can I sign up to speak at a rally for charters and vouchers or would you frown upon that?
     
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  22. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    I'm much happier with the NEA than I was with the AFT. NEA seems more reasonable and level-headed, while the AFT is more combative... Of course, this is all based on my personal experience. I'm not claiming that it's true across the board.
     
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  23. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    You're probably in a great state that supports its teachers. I am not. NEA has failed Indiana miserably. NEA has failed a lot of states.

    It's not just teachers being destroyed. When we take away services or replace a traditional level of service with a substandard one so that suits may make a profit, we are wrecking the lives of our kids. We are giving away the services we are paying taxes to get—AND STILL PAYING THOSE SAME TAXES!!!

    So, I'm past level-headed. NEA should play to win, or get out of the game, but perhaps there's too much money to be made, collecting all those dues without providing services. Huh....Just like my state and its collection of taxes.
     
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  24. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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  25. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

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    But there is $$$ to be made. Profit above all else.
     
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  26. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    That's because salaries go up. The same level of taxes is required to support less people since they now cost more.
     
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  27. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I don't think you can put the blame for the gutting of Indiana public education on the NEA. Politicians had to allow or even encourage the destruction.
     
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  28. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    At least the failings in Indiana will help advocates in other states force a narrowed scope. You should only qualify for a voucher if you'd otherwise have to attend a failing school. Unless I'm wrong, it doesn't seem like that is happening in Indiana. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
     
  29. DAH

    DAH Companion

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    One person's garbage is another person's treasure.
    (I couldn't resist.):)
     
  30. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    I certainly do not put all the blame on NEA. Primarily, the blame lies with legislators who have sold out an entire nation to satisfy their own personal greed and ambition. Then there are the corporate interests who are demanding a nation of slaves. NEA has done little to nothing to influence public opinion in favor of the public education our taxes is supposed to provide. In Indiana, NEA rolled over and played dead while legislators publicly demonized teachers and took away labor rights. They did tell us we had to picket outside the state house—while they collected dues.

    NEA did not gut public education, but they've done little to fight for it.
     
  31. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    Is there a chance some of these people are doing it because they believe it's the right thing to do?
     
  32. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I respect your opinion, but what I think you are saying is the defenders were too weak. Shouldn't you be more angry at the attackers?

    I share your grief at the decimation of Indiana schools.

    Maybe, if parents and teachers unite and become politically active, some of the damage can be reversed.
     
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  33. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    My state doesn't support or not support teachers... It's not really an issue here. Our schools are controlled by local school boards, for the most part. I mean, of course, testing, standards, and funding come from the state, but our school board determines our salaries.

    NEA does exactly what I want them to do. Keep me and other members up to date on issues. Provide resources and support where need. Lobby the federal, state, and local governments. And, otherwise, lay low and let me determine how much or how little I want to take advantage of what they offer to me.
     
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  34. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Another new survey about what parents want regarding education was just released; conducted by the highly respected Hart Research Associates. Here's their top 5 findings. Are parents sharing thoughts like these with you?
    1. Parents say public schools are helping their children achieve their full potential and expanding opportunity for low-income and minority children.

    2. Parents want access to a good neighborhood public school much more than increased choice of schools. Their highest priorities for these schools are providing a safe and secure environment, developing their children’s knowledge and skills, and ensuring equal opportunity for all kids.

    3. Parents worry about several trends in education today, including inadequate funding, excessive standardized testing, class size increases, cutting non-academic subjects, teacher turnover, and shifting resources from regular schools to charters and vouchers.

    4. Parents disapprove of Betsy DeVos’ performance as Secretary of Education and reject her “choice” agenda. They express little confidence in either DeVos or Donald Trump as education leaders, instead looking to teachers, principals, and parent organizations for the right ideas for public education.

    5. Parents’ education agenda focuses on investing in traditional public schools, with particular emphasis on expanding access to CTE programs, reducing class size, supporting struggling neighborhood schools, including art and music in curriculums, and providing health and nutrition services. They strongly oppose shifting resources from traditional public schools to fund either charter schools or vouchers.
     
  35. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    No need to ruin the story.
     
  36. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    I share your skepticism of information from biased sources. However I checked out Hart Research Associates and they are the real deal. Even if the information is biased, it's interesting that voucher legislation usually goes nowhere when the public votes on it. When vouchers are passed by a well-lobbied legislature, few parents take advantage of them. Most often it's parents whose kids already go to a religious school.

    I think the survey is spot on when it says parents want a good neighborhood school.
     
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  37. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    You've clearly never looked into survey bias. The way things are presented matters. You think people all uniformly would give similar responses?

    Polling companies also do polls for conflicting issues. Their job isn't to pick which polls to operate, it's to present the information from those who hire them.
     
  38. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    It is clear that there are many people here who prefer NEA lay low. Those pesky labor rights do stand in the way of profits and demagoguery.
     
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  39. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    In my state, the NEA ran positive, pro-teacher ads on TV. Maybe that's part of the reason the public's support for neighborhood public schools is going up.
     
  40. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

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    My state does that. It's a waste of money. Grassroots community efforts seem to work well here. Sponsoring and participating in community events. That's obviously at the local level, but NJEA gives grants to do them.
     

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