Appropriate Punishment

Discussion in 'Kindergarten' started by mamabear, Sep 24, 2011.

  1. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    Sep 24, 2011

    I was simply wondering if withholding food for a child as punishment is considerd appropriate? I agree that a treat differs from an afternoon snack so I am asking simply for an afternoon healthy parent provided snack to hold over the kids in a 8 hr day and forcing the child to see the other children eat.
     
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  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    That doesn't seem appropriate to me. Food as reward or punishment sends unhealthy messages about eating.:2cents:
    You didn't state what the reason was that the student was being punished, but consider using logical consequences instead.
    Also, since you are a sub, you might want to leave a note for the regular classroom teacher. And let him/her decide on the appropriate consequences in accordance with classroom/school policy.
     
  4. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    I am actually the mother in this occasion. The children were taking a bathroom break and four of them managed to run off and make it outside of the school before an adult noticed. It took five minute before the teacher realized that 4 of the 7 on the bathroom break were gone. They had made it out before the rest made it to the bathroom and managed to walk by the nurse and the front office and out of the school. They had recess taken away for the rest of the week which I completely agree with and then the teacher decided to take away snack time from the children. The teacher was informed that my child had been the victim of food deprivation as punishment by her biological father and his new wife and that we are in the process of having his rights terminated and that my child id still recovering from the traumas of her extended stay with her father. I asked her if she would give out another punishment and was told no that it was her decision how to punish the child.
     
  5. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    As a parent you should have quite a few issues to discuss with administration. Of primary concern would be security...how did 4 kids get out of the school without being noticed? What is their plan to prevent this from happening again?
    Then you should discuss the food deprivation trauma...this is not appropriate punishment for the infraction, and considering your child's history with food used as punishment, I'd definitely make sure the administration knew of your concerns.
     
  6. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    I don't ever believe witholding food as punishment is appropriate.
     
  7. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    This teacher is completely out of line, in my opinion. Number one... the bathroom break plans need complete revision. Number two...the punishment should fit the crime;how does withholding food teach the children not to run away?
    Number three...you have a right to see that your child is in a safe, caring environment while they are at school. This teacher (or school) doesn't seem to fit the bill.
    Also, I would be at the school ASAP discussing how this could have happened. Go as high in administration as you need to. If you don't feel that this school can keep your child safe, pull the child out of this school. The safety of your child should not be compromised.
     
  8. christine89

    christine89 Companion

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    Oh there are definite issues there! First, I don't agree with the withholding food thing as a consequence. I think taking away recess for the week is consequence enough. Second, the teacher should definitely make a change to the bathroom break routine after an incident like this. If you don't tell the teacher that, the administration certainly should. The break should either be whole-group so that the teacher can monitor all of them or two at a time in the bathroom. It's completely unacceptable for a teacher to not know where every single one of the students are at all times. What if a fire or some other emergency had occurred? This teacher wouldn't be able to account for the safety and whereabouts of each child.
     
  9. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    Thanks

    Thank you for your thoughts. I was not sure I was doing the correct thing after the teacher and principle told me it was an "over reaction". They went ahead and administered the punishment after I had informed them that even TEA had told me it was out of line and that in state of Texas withholding food as punishment is never legal unless it was provided by the teacher or labeled a treat. This was labeled snack time and she sent a notice home stating that they were going to have snack time because the children were losing focus by the end of the day complaining that they were hungry and that it had to be healthy food. Within these guidelines I also believe it was out of line. Furthermore, the fact that the teacher knew the trauma that my child endured with her biological father should have made it abundantly clear that it would cause irreparable harm to my child's well-being.
     
  10. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    I totally agree!!
     
  11. teach'ntx

    teach'ntx Comrade

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    As a parent and a teacher I am shocked!
     
  12. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Food should never be withheld as a behavior management technique. Food shouldn't be seen as a battleground and, frankly, having some children sit out and watch others eat strikes me as inhumane.
     
  13. HWilson

    HWilson Comrade

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    I am not a mother but as an aunt and a teacher, I am floored. If I were you I would be at the school first thing Monday morning. The teacher is being difficult after you have expressed your concerns. I would never do that! She should be willing to compromise especially considering the situation! It is totally insensitive! To have the food revoked as a punishment is class will only set her back in her "recovery" of the past issue. It is not healthy for your child mentally for the teacher to be so difficult! If nothing else, have her leave the classroom during snack time so she is not around the other children during this time, if that punishment at all!!
     
  14. Pre-K Teacher 1

    Pre-K Teacher 1 Comrade

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    Sep 25, 2011

    Yes. It is considered inappropriate.
     
  15. WindyCityGal606

    WindyCityGal606 Enthusiast

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    Sep 25, 2011

    When it comes to your children, always go with your gut. You knew this wasn't right from the get-go. If you don't stand up for your child's rights, then who will? Please don't allow this to continue one more day and advocate for your child. It's possible that your child has already developed a pretty negative attitude about adults if they do this to him/her. That can take so long to reverse. You can start the process now.
     
  16. Curiouscat

    Curiouscat Comrade

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    I agree withholding snack is wrong especially since you asked for a substitute punishment. It isn't like you are trying to get your child out of a punishment!
    I could see if she delayed their snack that day because their behavior took up their snack time. For example, you have to wait until we are done reading this story since you spent your snack time leaving the building.
    I would question why the children left the building in the first place. The only kindergarteners I know of that run out of or leave the building are the ones who are upset about something and don't know how to handle their feelings. Was your child upset about something?
     
  17. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    I was informed on Thursday that they has gotten out on Wednesday which I found rediculous considering that I am at school everyday during lunch. My husband and I are really working on helping the food issues, we have set up a the lowest shelves in the pantry and refidgerator doors to be filled with healthy snacks at her reach at all times. Also I talked to the princpal who was super rude when I informed her that if she did not get her snack I would simply pull her out during snack time and give it to her myself. At this point I am expecting to hear back from superintendent monday and have started the process of fileling an official complaint.
     
  18. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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    The more I think about this situation, the more concerned I am about your child.
    Is there another school nearby that you can enroll her in? Can you homeschool, if necessary? I am afraid she is going to develop negative attitudes toward school and the adults involved. I am also concerned about the retribution she may receive from the teacher and/or principal.
    It just seems like such an uncaring place, from what you have described.
    Please keep us updated.
     
  19. Curiouscat

    Curiouscat Comrade

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    I say sign her out and feed her snack then sign her back in. Explain to her exactly why you are doing this. I would assign an alternative consequence at home so she fully understands you support the school but not this particular consequence. I did this with my son at the end of last school year because of extreme consequences. I assigned him a consequence to replace the school's consequence. I did assign another consequence for the inconvenience of having to pick him up each day. He is also older than your child and I wanted him to know I was not happy about his behavior!
    The school will not like this, but you have to do what you have to do to protect your child. Yur child also needs to know you will fight for her and protect her too.
     
  20. Curiouscat

    Curiouscat Comrade

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    Did you ever find out why she left the building?
     
  21. mrsammieb

    mrsammieb Devotee

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    Can you call the news and inform them... this sounds like a total new story you can believe. Your poor girl!
     
  22. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    She told us that she went with them because she was following the other children. Also she told us that she was going behind the other children telling them no lets go back. Which doesn't change the fact that she did something wrong but she was punished at home by taking away her TV privileges and her weekend tea party she was supposed to have.
     
  23. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Sep 26, 2011

    I see several issues here.

    1. Your child was not properly supevised. The teacher should be shaking in her boots that you are not going to sue.

    2. If the school is under USDA food guidelines, file a complaint.
     
  24. mamabear

    mamabear Rookie

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    How would I go about fileling a complaint? And also just an update we have spoken to multiple health care professionals who found the act abusive and disgusting. Her doctor is closed on the weekends so I am going over this morning to get a doctors note barring this type of punishment to ever affect her again. I was afraid that the superintendent would not take me seriously due to my young age in comparison to most of the other district moms so I have retained an attorney to go with me so I can be taken more seriously than I have been up to this point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  25. NYteacherNmom

    NYteacherNmom Rookie

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    Flame me if you want...but I don't see how withholding a snack is something to get a lawyer over. Lunch? Yes. Snack? No. Now, would I use it as a punishment? Heck no.

    I do however see the issue with the supervision....BUT I don't know all the circumstances so I will speculate.

    How exactly did they sneak out? Did they walk past the teacher (not paying attention to them?) Or did they sneak out a window or through a place the teacher could not see? If it were the latter, I see more issue with the students... and would actually think a more appropriate measure considering the HUGE safety issue would be to suspend the students. How many students are in the classroom?

    I do not have a full day aide in my K class. There is an emergency exit in the hall near the bathroom in our classroom. I teach the students the first week of school that they under no circumstances go near that door, unless there is a fire or emergency and an adult takes them outside. I also cannot watch 24 kindergarteners use the bathrooom all day long. I trust that when they give me their signal for bathroom, they walk in there, use it appropriately, and then re-join us. If a student went to the bathroom and pushed open the emergency door and went outside, I would see it more as a violation of a reeeeally important rule, rather than a lack of supervision on my part. I would request the student be suspended, especially the "leaders" that lead the students outside.
     
  26. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    NYTeacher...the consequence just doesn't make sense with the misbehavior....I might have a snack consequence of some sort if a child was throwing or playing with food...probably just cleaning up the snack at that moment and letting them try again to act appropriately the next day...for leaving the building though? What on earth does that have to do with snack?
     
  27. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    This is really awful. I don't know that it would generally be something to get a lawyer over, but the fact that your child has had food depreivation issues already makes it UNBELEIVEABLE!!!!! I can't believe that the principal did not see the issue after finding out about your child's past. The only time I can see no snack being an appropriate punishment is if it is a natural consequence of the kid's actions (the kids threw it away without eating it or some other purposeful food related act). I can think of a dozen other punishments more appropriate than something connected to snack time. I would also talk to the superintendant about your child moving to another nearby school since this one just doesn't "get" it.
     
  28. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

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    I agree....isn't the buzz word "logical consequences"? They're totally not related and not logical to me either.
     
  29. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

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