Another New Teacher Plan

Discussion in 'General Education' started by KinderCowgirl, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/07/excellent-educators-for-all_n_5562269.html

    I love how it never even occurs to them that the teachers in poorer areas may be getting lower scores because those students enter school with less experience academically. It's a lot of money to spend on something that I can't see how they will control. Our district doesn't even "place" teachers. People interview with individual schools and get hired by P's who want them.

    I think it's good to think about equity in education, but I don't think simply moving teachers around is going to be the answer. Imagine that 4 million dollars being spent on resources for those poorer schools.
     
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  3. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    Of course the poverty thing occurs to them. Since TPTB cannot do anything to bring long-term solutions to America's poverty problem; instead, they legislate to change/improve what they can control. As a whole, we have been unable to find consistent ways to deal with the consequences of kids growing up in poverty, living in dangerous environments, and being bombarded with messages that tell them school is not worth the effort. Most Ed legislation is focused on changing the things we can regardless of whether the change is truly toward improvement.

    As to the article, unless we just get rid of all new teachers, "Ineffective/Level 1" teachers, and "Developing/Level 2" teachers, then there will always be kids who do not get instruction from "Effective/Level 3" and "Highly Effective/Level 4" teachers. That's just the way the system works.

    As my Admin says all the time, we don't get to choose the kids we teach - if they walk through the doors, then we must serve them.
     
  4. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    Around here, districts are pretty small. My county has about 20 districts. Plus a bunch of charters. The 'needy' districts never hire because they are losing students by droves, so they always lay off. I would like to know how that is going to work!

    Plus teachers have their strengths and weaknesses, so no matter how good they are at something, they can be terrible in another area. I have no problem saying- I get tremendous growth out of my high students. I was a gifted student myself and I understand how they think. I can push them easily. Low students are my weakness. Since I was a high student that got everything, I can struggle at finding new ways to explain something. This is why I am not a good urban teacher!
     
  5. TnKinder

    TnKinder Companion

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    Do you you think there are no gifted students in urban school? Or by definition an urban school must only have low performing students?
    My district may be different. It's an urban district many of the kids are low or underperforming. But we have schools specifically for those students who are gifted, and we also have a gifted program for kids who attend a neighborhood school and are gifted.
    The biggest problem facing many urban districts isn't lack of funding or lack of good teachers, it's the hoops that have to be jumped to prove you are teaching. It's the lack or parental involvement, and it's the perception that people have about school because at one point they went to school. Many of my parents are surprised that kindergarten is no longer coloring and singing.
     
  6. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    I often see people perpetuate the "urban/inner-city lack of funding myth" but this is often not true. Between local, state and federal funding - which most urban/inner-city districts receive - many urban/inner-city districts actually receive and spend more money per-pupil than wealthier neighboring districts. Not to mention, a lot of that state funding is made up of money collected from these other wealthier cities/counties/districts in the state.

    I got a chance to examine this in grad school using Detroit PS; they received more per-pupil funding than many other districts in Michigan. The problem is rarely a lack of funds, the problem is that money (millions) is being wasted and spent recklessly at the district level along with other allocation problems. More funding won't improve the problems at the classroom-level because the money is not properly trickling down in many districts.
     
  7. TnKinder

    TnKinder Companion

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    GoBlue

    I meant that lack of funding and good teachers are not the problem. My school is urban we don't lack for funding. I have technology, the school provides almost anything I need to teach. The school gives supplies to kids who don't have. There is no need for me to spend money for my classroom. If I do it's a want and not a need. The other things I listed is what I see to be the problem here in my district.
     
  8. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    My bad.
     
  9. greendream

    greendream Cohort

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    File that one under "inconvenient truths."
     
  10. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    I did not say that. In my urban class, the percentage was much lower. They did not have a gifted program available. Around here, we have school of choice. Schools actually advertise on TV. So involved parents will send their gifted child to a school with a gifted program.

    I am also talking inner city in a city that has made the top-10 most dangerous cities list for at least 20 consecutive years. My 'urban' experience is WAYYYY different than other urban experiences. I taught in another state, and I can tell you both large cities near me had a very different urban student population than where I taught.
     
  11. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

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    I guess I don't even understand how this would be possible, unless a single district had a pretty even number of really wealthy and really poor schools and could move people around within the district, and that's just not the case around here. Most districts in my city are small and pretty even as far as SES goes. They'd have to actually move people around from district to district and obviously I don't think that's feasible.

    I know Cincinnati Public Schools tried something like this a really long time ago- maybe 15 years ago? Historically the "reward" for lasting in the district for a long time was to be moved to the one really wealthy and high performing school. They tried to offer the experienced teachers at this school bonuses of around $20,000 to go to some of the other schools in the district, and the teachers refused. They said they'd earned their spot at the high performing school and no amount of money was worth going back.

    Hypothetically, I'd love for this to be carried out because I think it would prove that SES is the biggest factor in achievement. I can't believe that people literally think all inner city schools just happen to be full of the worst teachers and all wealthy schools happen to get great teachers every single time. I would pretty much guarantee that if you completely switched the staffs of one of the wealthiest schools and one of the poorest schools, the two schools would have very similar results as they did before the new staff. Like I said before though, realistically I don't see this even being feasible.
     
  12. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Every time that President Obama or his idiot stooge Duncan open their mouths about education, I become more embarrassed about voting for him.
     
  13. Emily Bronte

    Emily Bronte Groupie

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    :clap:agreed!
     
  14. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    You hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. Imagine if they used that 4 million dollars for early childhood programs or for parenting classes for young parents or parents in poor areas.
     
  15. jwteacher

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    Frankly, I don't know of any politician who truly understands the issues in public education. But Arne Duncan is a disgrace, and it reflects poorly on Obama for appointing him.
     
  16. iteachbx

    iteachbx Enthusiast

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    This is so true. I'm in an inner city school that fluctuates from year to year from being a "good" school to a "bad" school as per our test results. Meanwhile, we have amazing teachers at our school. There are so many hard working teacher I can turn to for advice or ideas. We do great on reviews from our superintendent. The work we require of our students is extremely rigorous and challenging, especially when I see what is being done in other schools in our area or suburban schools nearby. Our teachers go to lots of professional development, many are earning a second master's and we write extensive lessons plans. I don't think the school would be any different with different teachers.
     
  17. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Don't be fooled. Obama likes to blame teachers for low test scores. He thinks the whole thing boils down to lazy union protected educators. Who would be crazy enough to think that if you took the staff from a high scoring, high SES building, that they'd get the same high scores at a low SES school?

    I don't trust him. If he really cared about the achievement gap, he'd get lower class sizes, lots of staff development, libraries, school nurses and counselors and some more instructional time.

    Plus, how is he going to identify highly effective teachers? If he uses test scores, he could end up taking terrific teachers out of poor schools and replacing them with teachers from high SES schools who don't have the special set of skills needed to be successful with impoverished learners.
     
  18. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    I have read articles since this one about how both Arne and Michelle Rhee think poverty is just an excuse. I don't think they believe it actually affects these kids and their performances. That it's all about the teacher's effectiveness. If we don't have high test scores, it's the teacher.

    Part of me is actually hoping they try to go through with this because they will look like absolute fools when those classrooms get the same scores. Again, I don't know how it would work-my district has never assigned teachers to certain schools. I guess they could use incentives, but that's not going to be enough for most teachers to move.
     
  19. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    They're in the pockets of corporations, and Rhee in particular stands to profit handsomely from privatizing schools. Blaming teachers is just a red herring on her part (and the part of others hoping to profit).
     
  20. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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  21. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    I think yes, the less educational experience of students in urban schools is a factor, but one cannot deny that these schools are also in fact filled with new, inexperienced, and in many cases, frankly horrible teachers.

    I think it's probably mostly due to the amount of turnover and the desperation these schools get into. Good teachers leave because it's too much of a struggle and not worth it. Bad teachers stay because they know they can't get hired elsewhere and the school is desperate for any teachers to fill the classrooms.

    But again, this is a symptom and not a cause of the quality of the school.

    Tyler hit on the important points I think. The schools themselves need to be reformed. Smaller class sizes, more intervention opportunities, heavy duty student counseling, after school programs, etc.
     

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