And Here's How I Got A Job!

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by NJSocialStudies, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Aug 6, 2011

    They were rather recent posts. Just wondering how it's deceitful when a pregnant candidate doesn't disclose her condition, but ok to 'lie' (the OP's terminology) and then denounce corruption in the state. Bemusing.
     
  2. BioAngel

    BioAngel Science Teacher - Grades 3-6

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I don't think any teacher would disagree with this statement, but she/he made it out to seem like they did more than they actually did.

    Lie #1: A tutoring company--
    It is one thing to do some tutoring, but stating you started up a company to make some side money is hardly starting a tutoring company. Clearly the interviewers got the wrong impression: this person can tutor someone, but they think that this person is successful enough at what they do to own a company.

    Lie/Embellishment #2: Educating Lawyers--
    Stating something like providing tech support for lawyers, ya I get that, but "educating lawyers"? :huh:

    And the whole lie about telling the school to hurry up and make a decision is just rude. If I knew a teacher who did this, I don't think I could trust them. It gives the wrong impression that you're a teacher in demand and puts the school under stress to hurry up and decide.

    Besides all of that, what gets to me is that the person sounds like they're bragging-- "I'm so clever to lie about what I actually did in the past that I landed a job." Really I just pray members here don't think everybody from Jersey would dare to behave like this and that our new teachers or those who have been job seeking for awhile feel like they need to try out these tactics. Lying is lying. Period.
     
  3. BioAngel

    BioAngel Science Teacher - Grades 3-6

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I don't think that there's anything wrong with bringing it up. It's double standards. We offer one another advice here as professional educators-- I trust many of the regulars at this site because they have offered up sound advice time and time again.

    This member has offered good advice in the past, but then turns around and does something that we, as educators, would never allow our own students to do. I really begin to question a person's advice when I see actions like this. (And I'm sure her/his administration will too if they find out about the lies.)
     
  4. kimrandy1

    kimrandy1 Enthusiast

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    Aug 6, 2011

    The tone of her post here just seems odd to me. "look I lied and got a job! Aren't I great?!". That may really not be the intent - trust me, I know how hard it is to make your true feeling known on an Internet bulletin board - but something seems off.
     
  5. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    Well, this is why I don't believe this wasn't a big deal. If I'm the P interviewing and someone indicates that he/she started a tutoring company it would be obvious to me that this person was not successful at keeping/running the company as he/she is looking for a job now. Currently running the company and being profitable with many employees would be extremely impressive but in that case this person wouldn't need to look for a job. I really don't see how mentioning this would be very beneficial other than it shows that this person had a small business on the side and performed small business duties, which a lot of independent tutors do. It showed initiative more than anything because not many people may tutor independently but instead may be hired by a tutoring company.

    As far as for the training of lawyers, I understood from the OP there was a deal of training lawyers not just providing tech support. This was something he didn't do everyday but it was done. It seems as if he/she taught lawyers how to use new programs. I’ve been to software trainings and it requires some teaching skill to teach people about computer programs when they’re not that good at them. Besides, the P could have checked this when checking references to see if in fact this happened.

    The P didn’t have to feel pressured. He could have asked for another day or so. It could have been that the P was ready to make a decision and this was the best candidate and decided not to wait. Many pricipals make the decisions on the spot.
     
  6. Rainbowbird

    Rainbowbird Groupie

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I think there is a big difference in selling yourself and lying/fibbing. Starting your own "tutoring business" is a little different from starting your own "tutoring company". "Educating lawyers" is different from "provided technical support and training to lawyers". I mean, there is a way to portray yourself in a flattering light without lying. I wouldn't feel I could trust someone who stretched the truth that far.
     
  7. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I may also question the critical thinking of the people from the interview panel. If in fact New York is that tough and only the strong survive, I would imagine the intervew panel would not buy this without putting the OP through a tough drilling process. When I hear someone claiming all these things, a thousand questions come to my mind that depending on the answers will tell me if these are legitimate answers. To be honest, the owning a company seems more of a negative unless there are some extreme circumstances of why it didn't work out. It could show a risk taker that doesn't think things through. If the lying extended to make up a story of why it didn't work out then I think this is taking it too far.

    Anyway, I do see some true in the OP's claims and I think the job performance will ultimately determine the truth behind these claims. Besides, if these are proven to be false, he/she won't last in this job.
     
  8. katrinkakat

    katrinkakat Connoisseur

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I love it NJSocialStudies! Good job and congratulations!
     
  9. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Aug 6, 2011

    After reading all the posts and comments, I still have mixed emotions on this.

    I'm glad the OP got a job in a tough market and I have no problem with pointing out how previous job experience applies to the position you're applying for. But I see a big difference in promoting your previous job experiences and "embellishing" them. One is taking experiences that might not seem applicable to a teaching position at first glance, then showing how those skills DO apply to teaching. Several months ago, a member here was asking how she could translate her experience as a para-legal at a law firm to teaching. I suggested she promote the fact she was accustomed to handling difficult customers (or parents) in a diplomatic fashion and accomplished and meeting difficult demands in a very limited time basis (when the lawyers insist certain research or other tasks be finished by the next morning, no matter what). It was a case of "embellishing" her skills, but rather showing how those same skills could be applied in an school setting.

    You can call it whatever you want, but the OP did tell at least two flat-out lies - starting their own tutoring company and having another job offer. The OP has also admitted they told those lies because they knew it would be difficult for the interview committee to investigate them and discover the truth.

    Some may not consider that to be unprofessional or see it as just doing whatever you have to get a job. But I think it IS rather hypocritical for the OP to talk about applicants that are too "nervous" to tell the truth being viewed poorly and insisting that honesty is always the best policy, then to create a different thread where they literally gloat about getting a job by lying to the interview committee.

    The message being sent is "honesty is the best policy, unless I'm the one doing it, then it's ok to tell a couple of little lies, as long as you make sure they are ones you probably won't get caught at".

    I'm currently looking for a job myself and I will definitely highlight both my teaching experiences and skills I bring from other jobs I've held, but I, personally, will not "embellish" any of the skills I claim to have or accomplishments I've achieved.

    I trust my own ability to speak for itself, the interview committee to discern if I am the right fit for their position, and God to provide the job that is right for me at the right time.
     
  10. teach42

    teach42 Comrade

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I'm a bit confused as to how telling an employer that you have another job offer when you don't is stretching the truth. It's flat out lying. The OP could have just said he have had other interviews or have other interviews lined up. I'm not even going to get into the one about starting a tutoring company. Can you imagine what the job market would be like if everyone started doing what the OP does?
     
  11. indigo-angel

    indigo-angel Companion

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    Aug 6, 2011

    I was specifically referring to her experience, nothing else. Freelancers often state that they are the head of a "company," which they are. Lots and lots of people are already doing what the OP does, they just don't talk about it. For example, with the advent of unemployment discrimination, where employers refuse to hire people who have been unemployed for a number of months/years, lots of applicants are now fabricating jobs to fill the gap, hoping to increase their chances of finding employment.
     
  12. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Aug 6, 2011

    Employers DO look up businesses. I don't run the company any longer, but we used to have an online pet business. I ran the website, did all the design, product development etc. Nobody ever called (why would they want to talk to my mom? or me?), but website stats almost always showed a visit from URLs suspiciously corresponding to potential employers.

    Most professional freelancers have some sort of portfolio or online portal to showcase their work.

    Sticking that sort of experience on a resume without something concrete for people to go look at probably isn't nearly as helpful as people think.
     
  13. highlow405

    highlow405 Rookie

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    Aug 7, 2011

    I don't believe this person will last long. He or she has a cutthroat approach that I doubt will end once they enter into their new job. The approach that gets one ahead in other fields doesn't work in education. Too many enemies will be made.
     
  14. Cerek

    Cerek Aficionado

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    Hopefully, the cutthroat approach will end now that the OP has gotten the job. I agree completely that what works in other fields does not work in education.

    I'm also going to soften the tone of my initial comments. I do think the OP of this thread sends an entirely different message than the recent comments made by the poster in a different thread regarding honesty in an interview. While I feel those two posts send very mixed messages, it is the OP that has to reconcile those messages to himself/herself. I'm not in his/her shoes or exact situation, so if the OP felt this was truly the only way to get noticed and have a shot at a job, I can understand that. Although I agree there is a chance those "embellishments" might come back to bite the OP in the future when (s)he least expects it. Then again, it may never come up again and the OP may end up being the perfect fit for the job.
     
  15. smeraldo

    smeraldo Rookie

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    Aug 7, 2011

    Congrats! And congrats on Northern Jersey school district!! Stop judging people...I agree with Toy_03 Good luck!
     
  16. mommyre

    mommyre Comrade

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    Aug 7, 2011

    Technically the OP only lied about the other job offer. I have had MANY principals tell me that they view my freelance tutoring as a job, some do not, but others do. Since she was not working for someone, it was her "own business". If she printed flyers asking for referrals rather than word of mouth would you have thought it was a "business". As for educating lawyers, I have had professional resume help and had those offering assistance ask me what "educator" responsibilities I had at non-education jobs, such as trainer of new employees, etc. OP just altered the wording to make it more education friendly. This is what HR people want to know. Good for the OP that they could find the relevance in education irrelevant jobs!
     
  17. Lynn K.

    Lynn K. Habitué

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    Aug 7, 2011

    I don't think it's terribly moral to 'lie' to get a job, but I get that it's difficult to make yourself stand out.

    My advice: keep your mouth shut and don't tell anyone else about this. You never know who's listening or talking to the P on a daily basis. And then do an amazingly great job!

    Congratulations.
     
  18. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Aug 7, 2011

    That's what it all boils down to.

    I'm not a liar. I wouldn't lie to get a job.

    And if I were still in the position to have a say in who gets hired, I wouldn't hire someone who had lied.

    It's hard to reconcile your confession that you lied with your accusations of corruption in NJ schools--- what's corruption but lying?
     
  19. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    Aug 7, 2011

    I agree. I have a book about writing professional resumes for teachers and the book constantly suggests changing words to make it more geared towards education related duties. That's why I didn't think he lied about the job duties.
     
  20. PCdiva

    PCdiva Connoisseur

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    Aug 7, 2011

    Reading all these posts, now I'm curious.....some people refer to the poster as "he" others "she". I don't know why but my initial instinct was what is wrong with this GUY! hmmm...
     
  21. SCTeachInTX

    SCTeachInTX Fanatic

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    Aug 8, 2011

    I don't know PC. I just wonder if the OP is thinking.... "Whoa. Why did I try to offer advice." I am sure that he/she did not think it would be a marathon debate when his/her comments were originally posted.

    Oh well, my opinion? Well, it does not matter. The person has a job, and now it is up to him/her to be as amazing as his/her resume says. So, make it work. Personally, as long as the person did a great job, worked with kids well, and was professional and sincere about helping kids then, I would still think that I had made the right choice as an interviewer.

    And how would I know any better unless he started shooting off his mouth to coworkers which would be really not so smart considering all the warnings from this board.

    So, time will tell.
     
  22. Marci07

    Marci07 Devotee

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    I agree. I've known of two people who had an impressive resume. I remember the principal just couldn't stop talking about these guys and how wonderful they were. One of them was so impressive that he was hired on the spot without interviewing more candidates. Well, I guess their resume and interview was all an act because they turned out to be the biggest disappointment ever. These guys showed their true colors within a couple of months and the principal couldn't wait for the year to be over to get rid of them. One of them was so bad that when he asked for a letter of recommendation, the P refused to give it to him. They may have gotten a job for that year but I assure you that after their job performance that year, they surely had a harder time finding a job even with their awesome resume.

    One thing both of them had in common was that they had an altered ego and believed they didn't have to put up with anything.

    Again, a resume can be professionally done and "embellished", which I don't have anything against, but remember that ultimately the quality of work and dedication will determine job security. :2cents:
     
  23. SingBlueSilver

    SingBlueSilver Companion

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    Aug 9, 2011

    I think that the OP was making a point on embellishing one's resume which is what we're all kind of trained to do.

    Any poster who asks for help on their resume and cover letter gets pretty much similar advice, which is to highlight points about their past experience and relate those points to their objective.

    The OPs's objective here was to secure a position in the field of education. While their resume may have gotten their foot in the door, I'd like to think interviewers and P's did a thorough enough job in asking the right questions to see that the OP was a good fit for their school. And with probably ton's of applicants, they CAN afford to be choosy. I don't think the OP would have gotten the job otherwise (embellishments and all). I think that the OP's actions show how badly they want to truly TEACH. No school would want a teacher who doesn't want to teach or who doesn't seem like they want the job badly.

    In this economy and job market, it's dog eat dog. I've said it before, thousands of teachers around the country have been displaced/laid off and new teachers fresh out of programs aren't JUST competing with their cohorts, but they're competing with teachers who've got some tenured years of experience under their belts, and some fabulous ones to boot. Everyone has got to make themselves stand out somehow.

    If the OP wanted the job as much as they made it seem like, they're gonna show 'em what they've got and then some this school year.
     
  24. Teach2012

    Teach2012 Rookie

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    Aug 9, 2011

    My opinion? If the OP does have questionable ethics or other flaws, it is the fault of the hiring principal if something goes wrong. I am a member of the hiring committee at my place of employment, and it is glaringly obvious when resumes have been beefed up. I go by what I see and hear in the interview, and my gut instincts are usually right.

    My gut would have told me "Wow, this person is trying to bully me into a decision" with the comment about the other job offer...but if that principal didn't feel that way? Their problem, not mine.

    I say the same thing when the final decision is made (by my boss) to hire someone that I know will be terrible, and they prove me right. "You hired them!"
     

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