am I wrong here? potty training issues?

Discussion in 'Preschool' started by PennStateCutie, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 18, 2008

    It is the end of December and I still have a boy in my 3-yr-old preschool class (who actually turned 4 in October) who is STILL having potty training issues. His mom sends him to school every day (tues/thurs) with a Pull-up on & this week, he did #2 in his pull-up BOTH DAYS! On Tuesday, it was after we had already taken our potty break (they are all made to at least try to go) and today, it was before our break (which is around 9:45, they come in at 9). I do not have a bathroom in my room, so group breaks are a must. This is the same child who could not drink out of a cup when he came to me & mom suggested just giving him a sippy cup instead of getting to the root of the problem and actually trying to teach him how to drink. The worst part is, is that I also have this child's twin brother in my class (who has had a couple of potty issues, but not as severely) & he does ok...behaviorally, they are both big issues though.

    When I told my director about this today (as I do every time it happens), she simply gave a frustrated grunt & said, "well this has got to stop!" and that's all...no "let's get rid of him - this is December & should not be happening anymore" or anything like that. The preschool has a "must be fully potty-trained" requirement in our policy, so I don't know what my director is waiting for, but with her attitude, it is almost like she expects me to do something about it. She wants to just pull the "bad parenting" card and leave it at that, but that's not my concern...my concern is that we have policies and rules & SHE is the one that needs to enforce them...am I wrong to feel this way? What can I do? I'm at my wit's end! :dizzy:

    Thanks
     
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  3. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Dec 18, 2008

    NO you are not wrong. But you don't have to play the bad parenting card, just the rules card... not potty trained, not coming anymore. If you have to be the one to tell mom, then so be it. If the director isn't the wiping the behind, she may never say anything else about it. Could you call mom and have her come pick him up if he poops in his pull-up?

    Is he mentally able to know he is doing it and should know better?
     
  4. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 18, 2008

    Thanks for your answer Preskoo - this child has a referral for early intervention...(at my request), to be observed Jan 7th. I don't pull the bad parenting card, but I agree w/ you that the director does nothing about it because she isn't changing dirty pull-ups and dealing with other children at the same time. She's sitting at her desk updating her facebook during the day (yes...she really is). I have no aide to help me deal with things either & I don't have another teacher's room adjacent to mine, so I'm basically stuck in the corner by myself.

    I don't feel that I have the authority to throw him out, especially being at a church preschool, where the income is directly tied to the church :( I feel so stuck...like I have no advocate. I am so frustrated
     
  5. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Dec 18, 2008

    Can you send him to the director when he messes in his pants? What are the other kids doing while you are cleaning him up, especially if you don't have an aide? A few times of her having to take care of it, she might change her tune...
     
  6. old-new teacher

    old-new teacher Comrade

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    Dec 18, 2008

    I think if he poops in his pull up, I would be calling mom to come get him and change him. If she is constantly inconvenienced by it, she might just do what she needs to do to get him trained. Our preschool would definitely not let the child stay in school until he could returned fully potty trained. They expect an occasional accident (#1) by 3 year olds, but wearing a pull-up and going #2 would not be tolerated. I can't believe your director is doing nothing.
     
  7. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 18, 2008

    I guess I should mention that if I send him to her, she brings him back and tells me that I should go take him while she attends to my class...my big issues with this are that A) it's again not inconveniencing her and B) my kids are missing out on their educational time because she would have them play or do a coloring page or whatever instead of what I would have planned to teach them during that time.

    The director did call mom ONE time at the beginning of the year and the mom said that she couldn't come get him until 11:30 because she was home feeding her other 2 children & that was the soonest she could get there :( What if there was a medical emergency or something? I'm sure she would find a way to come before 11:30...so stinking frustrating :(
     
  8. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Dec 18, 2008

    Keep sending him to the director, telling her you are in the middle of something and need her to take care of it. And, I would hold off with much else until after the evaluation. But, if there is no physical reason, I would insist that the director remove him. We send the child home if s/he has three poopy acidents, telling the parent the child may come back when completely trained. Stick to your guns.
     
  9. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Dec 19, 2008

    Well, you could always say it was diahrrea and she needed to come get him in case it is a virus. I know... bad to lie since it is a church daycare.
     
  10. sarzacsmom

    sarzacsmom Groupie

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    Firt and foremost-- get rid of the pullups! Tell mom that the child is supposed to be fully potty trained and pullups are not developmentally appropriate for a child of this age that is fully potty trained. Tell her to send him in nderwear and get a supply of baby wipes so he can clean himself up. Fully poty trianed means able to use the toilet independently without it being teacher directed, and that includes wiping. Ask the director if you can give mom a deadline----say two weeks or the end of January. Sometimes I th ink if we go to the direcotr with suggesstins or ideas for handling the situation they are more apt to follow through. I had a similar experience and fortunatly my director backed me up but it wasn't until she actually witnessed it herself. Then she had me keep a journal of his bathroom accidents for two weeks or so. He had 18 accidents in 13 days. When she saw that she realized how much time I was losing in the classroom and put her foot down. The first thin you ned to do is tellmom no more pullups. Remind herthat the center policy is that to be in your class a child must be fully potty trained and that a child using pull ups is not fully potty trained. Once a child stops weraing pull ups and feels uncomfortable a few times when they go in their underwear it usually takes care of the issue--especially when mom has to do laundryall the time becasue of it. Our center has the same policy about the potty training (I have the 3s so it affects my room) and they have to be fully potty trained by the end of august to come int o my room and then they get 0 day probation period becaue it's a new environment and all. The child I had the issue with this year ended up having to leave---and since then I've had a full class and he class has done much better and is actually learning.
     
  11. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Connoisseur

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    Dec 24, 2008

    PSC,
    So sorry to read about how hard it is for you right now with this child. It is also sad that the D is not sticking to the POLICIES. I know you mentioned that it is tied in with the church, etc. Is it one of those churches that they pass the plate around OR the leader gets up and make you feel guilty into submission of HAVING TO DONATE; for the betterment of the church, but you know it's going to the leader's new car and family matters, etc. Sorry BUT that is a reason that a lot of people have started CHURCHES! It's a job and it's the leader's income!:2cents: Think about it! Was Jesus paid while he was on Earth? I don't think so!
    Now! If it is tied in with one of kind of those churches, then some schools feel obligated; that they have to kiss a$$ with the parents IN ORDER to get their $$$ and will put up with everything and anything. You might be fighting a losing battle. Sorry to get off your topic! :D
    MEANWHILE....BACK TO THE SUBJ!!!:)
    Anyway, all the above suggestions have been GREAT ones. I hope that you will finally get your D to see your point after you try all the above mentioned. Good luck OR better yet; IF YOUR D DOESN'T SEE YOUR POINT afterwards, THEN it's time for you to relocate to a school where your hard work can be noticed and appreciated!
    Rebel1
     
  12. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

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    Dec 24, 2008

    Potty Training

    Since he's only with you 2 days a week, I would just not change him when he has an accident. If he comes home from school every Tuesday and Thursday with a dirty diaper, then maybe mom will get the message that you are not going to be the one who has to deal with the mess. Crack open a window or door to help with the smell and let him stay dirty. Maybe if he starts to get uncomfortable with a messy diaper he will be more motivated to use the potty. If the director wants to know why he's not being changed, just say you don't have the time, it's not in your job description, the rules say he has to be potty trained to be here, etc....

    If the child was coming to your class 5 days a week, then I would say it would be easier for you to get him potty trained by working with him than waiting for mom to do it. We also have the requirement that children be potty trained before they can attend our program, but I don't think it's ever been enforced. So, I make it my business to work with that child to get them potty trained. Even if the parents don't think the child is ready, or they are having trouble getting the child potty trained. If their child is going to be with me for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, then they are going be potty trained.
     
  13. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 24, 2008

    Thanks MrGrinch - unfortunately I have no windows in my room either (it sounds like a miserable place, doesn't it? but it really is bright and cheery), but I do have a door...at times, he will refuse to sit down on the carpet (unless I manipulate and physically bend his legs myself) & say that he can't because the carpet is dirty...that's the signal to me that he has messed in his pants. To be perfectly honest with you, I professionally think that he is very delayed in his developmental milestones & may definitely fall somewhere on the autism spectrum. I'm anxious for his first observation w/ the early intervention unit on 1/7 to see what they say...
     
  14. cutNglue

    cutNglue Magnifico

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    My children were late bloomers. No matter what I did, they would not fully potty train until they were ready. Ironically all three were close to the 4 year old mark when it happened. On the first kid, I felt like a bad parent. After that I accepted that it would happen and I needed to relax but be consistent. Not everyone potty trains at the golden ages. You do have a rule but that's up to the director to enforce. (ie, you can't come back).
     
  15. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 24, 2008

    I should mention that there are other reasons that I think he needs intervention, other than just the developmental milestones. He rarely-to-never interacts with his classmates. When he does, it is mostly using them as pawns or playthings (ie- they are standing in front of him as he is playing cars, so they become a mountain for the car to drive over). Also, he is very sensitive over sensory issues (at times, won't wash his hands with soap because "it's dirty", but other times gets very excited about the idea of using finger paints)...and I have to play games with him to get him to put his coat on because "it's hurting me" when really he just doesn't like it zipped up the whole way to his face (even though that is how his mom has it zipped when he comes to school). And he MUST have everything "just so" (even more than a normal 3 yr old and their routines). He refuses to come sit down until each and every puzzle piece is put in place (even when I say it's ok to just pile the pieces up and come sit down, he refuses)...and don't get me started on what happens if he tries to put a puzzle together and there's a piece missing from the start...he WILL.NOT.STOP until I find some other suitable means of distraction because "the puzzle isn't finished"...it's definitely out of my realm of "regular education"
     
  16. chemteach55

    chemteach55 Connoisseur

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    Dec 24, 2008

    You mentioned a twin brother. Is he developmentally behind also?
     
  17. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Oh my goodness, you have a lot of red flags for this child. Have you documented all of them?
     
  18. PennStateCutie

    PennStateCutie Companion

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    Dec 24, 2008

    I document them mostly through the behavior calendars that are sent home daily to parents (which I keep at the end of the month)...his brother is SOMEWHAT delayed, but honestly, I think that most of his problems are a direct result of the other twin getting all of the attention because of his needs. They are both pretty small for being 4 (usually smaller birth size is made up for in twins by that age isn't it), but I also think they are babied....we had our Christmas brunch yesterday for the 3 yr old class & both of them were sitting at the table with full-out toddler bibs on (you know, the kind with the lip on the bottom to catch food messes)...and the toddler in question was sitting in the stroller, which they brought right to the table at the brunch...I could go on and on, really... :(
     
  19. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    Dec 25, 2008

    You may have to "support" the parents by helping them raise the bar for behaviors of their children. If they have twins and a 3 year old, I bet they treat them all the same and expect the same from all, forgetting that they have different needs.
     

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