Am I in big trouble?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Pi-R-Squared, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    For state testing, it was reported that I read questions from the test. By read, I mean not outloud but to myself. This is a testing violation. So I was removed from monitoring today's test and may not be monitoring any more. The P and AP questioned me regarding this and I did tell them that I did read some of the questions and that I had forgotten that that was a violation. Not reading the questions is part of an agreement form that I signed. They said my situation will be referred to the testing coordinator at CO.

    I am also non-tenured in my tenure year working with a new P and new AP.

    Am I a goner?
     
  2.  
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    Apr 14, 2016

    It depends on how severely your state cracks down on this type of violation.

    One of my friends got into big trouble for reading aloud a section of the test to her special ed students with read-aloud accommodations. Read-aloud accommodations don't apply to the reading portion of the test, so this was a violation. My friend didn't know that it was a violation. She was officially reprimanded in writing, placed on leave while the state investigated the issue, and later reinstated. Although she had been threatened with losing her license and being terminated, neither happened.

    I am surprised that you didn't know that reading the test even to yourself was a violation. Do you not have testing security meetings at your school? We have one every year, plus a few required videos to watch, plus a booklet to read and sign, and it is very clear what is and is not allowed.

    Who reported you?
     
  4. stephenpe

    stephenpe Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    174

    Apr 14, 2016

    I hate what testing has become. They treat us all like criminals and act as if teachers are not to be trusted it. IT Is all *$*@)@_$#
     
  5. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    We did have a staff meeting to go over all the rules and violations. I forgot that reading the questions was one of them. I didn't offer any help to anyone. What I was doing was looking at the math problem and thinking to myself whether I covered it or not. Or thinking that this should be one they can answer.

    During planning time, I walked over to other math teachers and casually mentioned that I read some of the questions. I figure one of them said something.
     
  6. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,756
    Likes Received:
    1,716

    Apr 14, 2016

    In this area, you would be pulled from the classroom, suspended with pay while the investigation takes place, and possibly be fired. Although, I know of more cases where the teacher is returned to the classroom and not fired.
     
  7. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    So would it just be the CO investigating or does the state department become involved?
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    Apr 14, 2016

    That depends on how high they take it.

    Here, all testing irregularities and violations are reported. We even have ways to anonymously report testing irregularities and violations directly to the state. I think that the state can investigate, or it can designate someone at the district level to do so.
     
  9. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    Well, what I said to the AP and P is this.

    I did read a few questions but did not assist any student. I self-thought if they could or couldn't answer and whether I taught the concepts.

    What I forgot to mention is that someone reported that I helped someone and I definitely did not.
     
  10. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    Are you saying 60/40 retain? 75/25?
     
  11. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2016

    I am sorry to hear this Pi-R-Squared, try to stay positive.
     
    linswin23 and otterpop like this.
  12. miatorres

    miatorres Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    97

    Apr 14, 2016

    In the past, I have taught at a school where many teachers were known to talk behind other people's backs and exaggerate or invent what someone said. If you can think of an honest adult who may have heard everything you said to those others on that particular day, then that person can be your witness.
     
    otterpop and Backroads like this.
  13. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    I admitted that I read questions. What someone reported is not made up.
     
  14. miatorres

    miatorres Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    97

    Apr 14, 2016

    I see. However, earlier you mentioned that someone also falsely reported that you helped a student who was taking the test. That part, then, shouldn't be on record.
     
    otterpop likes this.
  15. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    1,645

    Apr 14, 2016

    There must be different violations in different states because I don't recall "reading the test" mentioned when I had to proctor state tests. It was probably 15 years ago so I might have just forgotten.
    Do they not want you to read the test because they think it will give your students an unfair advantage at some point?
     
  16. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    1,645

    Apr 14, 2016

    Yes, I definitely would have said that was not true. Maybe they were just mistaken and thought he was helping. I really hope another teacher would't make that kind of thing up just to get someone in trouble.
     
  17. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,756
    Likes Received:
    1,716

    Apr 14, 2016

    I don't really have statistics. I would guess that in the years since this state began standardized testing about 15 years ago, I have seen three people fired and five or so allowed back n the classroom. I think what is worse for you is that someone accused you of helping a student. That is the most important thing you need to be able to defend yourself against.

    I wish you the best of luck. I think you are a great teacher and I hope this all works out in your favor.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    Apr 14, 2016

    From my district testing security document:

    Disclosure of test content is strictly prohibited by state law—do not read, review, copy, reproduce, or take notes on test items. [This is in bold.]

    Testing irregularities that arise due to cheating, accusations of purposeful misconduct by staff, large increases in scores from one year to the next or high levels of incorrect to correct answer changes will trigger a District investigation.

    Any school staff member, licensed or unlicensed, who is found to have engaged in one of the behaviors identified above as an “irregularity in test security,” or any behavior not listed that violates the security of the test content or answers to test questions, will be subject to administrative and disciplinary action consistent with [state law], district regulations, and the relevant collective bargaining agreement.
     
  19. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    743

    Apr 14, 2016

    Wow...I am already so anxious about administering state tests, and this only adds to my fears. The "trainings" on our site are always last-minute and slap-dash, if they happen at all. Last year I administered the CAHSEE for the first time with absolutely no training -- I just got a stack of booklets, some pencils, and an email telling us when to begin. This year I am so glad to not be administering the CAASPP which sounds even more chaotic. I would be horrified if I mistakenly did something wrong and was then subject to disciplinary actions. Hugs and best wishes your way, Pi...
     
    Backroads likes this.
  20. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    What makes this even more depressing is that is my tenure year. I'm pretty much convinced myself that, whatever happens, I will be non-renewed in May. I was having previous concerns and having this on my record isn't going to help.
     
  21. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    743

    Apr 14, 2016

    Don't give up on yourself! I think we all have anxieties this time of year about the future. Just try to keep focused on doing the best job you can and try to put the rest out of your head (easier said than done, I know!).
     
    Pashtun likes this.
  22. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    481

    Apr 14, 2016

    In my area, you violated two test security measures--reading the test and talking about items on the test. In my state, it is a violation to not report another teacher who you know violated test security, so whoever turned you in is protecting themselves as well. Unfortunately, you would have consequences in my district. Typically, teachers with violations are suspended without pay during testing days in future years.
     
  23. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 14, 2016

    Yeah, Yeah!!!!...wait....what? That is a consequence?
     
    2ndTimeAround likes this.
  24. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 14, 2016

    I didn't mention any test items to anyone. The I go time a test item was brought up was when a student had a question about possible wrong answers. I told him to go to the office and report it. I didn't discuss it in class or ever.
     
  25. otterpop

    otterpop Phenom

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,256
    Likes Received:
    1,826

    Apr 14, 2016

    At my school, I don't think it would be a huge deal. Don't get me wrong, we work to maintain test security. But honestly, I'd say it's nearly impossible to not see (and therefore read) some of the questions. :confused:

    I do think there's a difference between noticing what's being asked in a question and camping out behind a student reading every question. And, obviously, publishing or sharing the information, or teaching those things during a break, isn't acceptable. But I don't see how anyone could be totally ignorant of the questions being asked. On computer tests, we get questions like "it won't let me click here," (actual test errors, not user errors), so sometimes glancing at the screen is unavoidable.

    If it's that big of a concern, they shouldn't have teachers proctoring their own tests.

    Anyway, sorry OP. I hope it turns out okay for you. All this testing crud makes me so angry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
    linswin23, bella84 and Obadiah like this.
  26. waterfall

    waterfall Virtuoso

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,145
    Likes Received:
    993

    Apr 14, 2016

    In the schools I've worked in it would honestly depend on how much admin liked you to begin with. Just yesterday in a leadership team meeting we were talking about a state department of ed who came in for PD and was not well received by the staff. She kept making comments about things people were teaching and saying they were a waste of time, not what the standard meant, etc. During this meeting (in front of admin and may teachers) a popular teacher said something like, "I know I'm not supposed to know what's on PARCC, but I've see PARCC, and the students are specifically asked to ___________ (afraid to post the exact thing in case I get in trouble for writing what's on PARCC, lol, but she said it.) There was no reaction at all to her saying this. On the other hand, if it was someone admin might be trying to get rid of, a huge deal would be made out of it. If you have a union now would definitely be a good time to contact them.
     
    Obadiah and otterpop like this.
  27. linswin23

    linswin23 Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    101

    Apr 14, 2016

    Gosh, I'm angry for you, Pi-R...

    Hang in there, and don't give up.
     
    otterpop likes this.
  28. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 15, 2016


    As I've said before, I'm working with a new AP and P. I'm non-tenured and on my tenure year. I'm scared that this will be used as part of non-renewal.
     
  29. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    66

    Apr 15, 2016

    I'm new to this whole crazy testing thing... we have standardized tests, but not nearly to the extent, or with the rules that many of you have.

    This year however, my class got randomly selected to take an international exam. I was given the handbook for the testing administrator by my principal, just so I would have an idea what would be happening. I'm allowed to be in the classroom, but I can't be the person giving the assessment. Basically, I'm glad I don't have to do it, because there are so many rules, I'd be constantly on edge about breaking one. I'm used to rules like, "Don't read aloud the questions, and don't assist"
     
  30. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,307
    Likes Received:
    887

    Apr 15, 2016

    I've always wondered why these testing companies make a big deal over teachers seeing a test question. Do they not realize that it's more or less inconceivable that we can avoid looking at some questions? Don't they get that any of the minuscule data they deign to provide us with be more useful if we knew the questions? Ive always kind of wondered if their real goal is to make sure teachers don't realize how poorly made they actually are.
     
    bella84, otterpop and Obadiah like this.
  31. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    1,645

    Apr 15, 2016

    So how can they prove you were reading it. "No, I wasn't reading it"
    Yeah, they don't want ANY feedback from actual teachers. Who writes these tests? I doubt anyone who has been in the classroom in the last decade.
     
  32. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 15, 2016

    But I told admin that I read some questions. This is the truth. Besides, I had mentioned this to some math teachers the day before yesterday and one of them went up in arms saying, "You violated test security!"
     
  33. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Maven

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,330
    Likes Received:
    1,645

    Apr 15, 2016

    I would have just said I didn't recall reading it. They must have been mistaken. Were you moving your lips when reading it? How could they prove it? I also would never have spoken about this with other teachers.
     
  34. swansong1

    swansong1 Virtuoso

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,756
    Likes Received:
    1,716

    Apr 15, 2016

    Would you consider six weeks suspended without pay a consequence? That's the testing window in my area.
     
  35. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 15, 2016

    I was being sarcastic, but, honestly, if they wanted to give me an extra 6 weeks off every year, I can tell you that without a doubt I would adjust and not want them back in the future when they thought it was ok for me to proctor a test again.

    They took away a week of our pay for a few years during the budget crisis, Im still bitter they gave us the week back.
     
  36. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 15, 2016

    1. Is it the test companies or the departments of education?
    2. I often wonder if teachers don't get that they are never happy with any assessment that they themselves do not have 100% control over each and every variable and aspect of the test, from design, to scoring, to who sees results.
    3. Just from this website we know that a majority of teachers would copy questions, change numbers and words and drill the crap out of them....because that is how many teachers believe you get better scores.......
     
  37. Pi-R-Squared

    Pi-R-Squared Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    353

    Apr 15, 2016

    The P came to my classroom this morning and asked how I was. She was calm and reassuring. I dunno what I would have done if she came in steaming mad! I told her I was still a little sad but she understood. She said that she was required to report me because it was a security violation. I told her I take full responsibility for what happened and she understood. Then, someone else from testing came in to have me sign some irregularity reports regarding 2 students who used the restroom during my watch. I asked her if I was in big trouble and she said it would likely just be put down as a mistake made me. She sad I shouldn't worry about losing my license. The P also told me to move forward, not to talk to anyone about the situation and have a good day today. So I figure not everything was lost yesterday.
     
  38. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    1,700

    Apr 15, 2016

    Man, I'm glad I only checked the PATTERN of the test and not actual questions while I've been proctoring other grade levels. I'll avert my gaze when my own students test on Monday.
     
  39. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    1,700

    Apr 15, 2016

    That is a relief, Pi. Sounds like they're looking at it as an honest error by a new teacher. It isn't like you let a student use a smart phone during a test. You'll be okay.
     
    otterpop likes this.
  40. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,985
    Likes Received:
    435

    Apr 15, 2016

    Happy that it sounds like it went well.
     
  41. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,606
    Likes Received:
    2,714

    Apr 15, 2016

    It sounds like everything is going to be fine.

    And for what it's worth, I think that there is a huge difference between passively glancing at an exam question in passing and actively sitting down to read through the test.
     
    otterpop likes this.

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. TeacherNY,
  2. miss-m,
  3. Hrush,
  4. greendream
Total: 309 (members: 4, guests: 274, robots: 31)
test