Alternative Certification Candidates

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by Genmai, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Genmai

    Genmai Companion

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    I've been looking for a teaching job in NJ since filing my certification papers and haven't heard back from anyone yet. I am brand new in the teaching profession - I have no education background and no teaching experience. I am wondering if this is a strike against me.

    Often, alt cert folks go through a alt cert program and get pre-service training over the summer so they have some training, however superficial. I don't have anything like this. I've spammed resumes to nearly every school within practical driving distance so far, and I have gotten no response.

    Are principals even working right now NJ? Do they hire so late? What else could I do? Any advice would be much appreciated.

    :help:
     
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  3. roseteacher12

    roseteacher12 Habitué

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    my BF is also alt. route for social studies and have yet to hear anything either. however I am not alt route and have some exprience and I havent heard anything either!! (we're in NJ too by the way) I think NJ is just wayyyyy oversaturated with teachers right now and not even positions unfortuntely..
     
  4. heymiss

    heymiss Comrade

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    I'm also a brand new alternative cert. teacher, with no teaching experience to speak of except for a couple days of subbing last year.

    I'm in Texas, and I've gotten several interviews (2 with the district I most want, and a couple of charter schools that I ended up not liking) by spamming schools with my resume. At first, I was afraid I'd wasted $100 mailing my stuff out because I didn't hear anything for WEEKS.

    Unfortunately, I must suck at being interviewed (I have since bought a couple of books and realize how stupid I must have sounded!) because none of those jobs has panned out for me.

    My plan is to just sub as often as I can at a few schools close by and just hope that something opens up during the year. Part of me hates it because I wanted to start off with my own class, but the other part of me realizes that it's a pretty good way to get experience (and if you mess up one day, you'll probably never have to see those kids again!).

    I read an article in the paper the other day about how the districts in my area are hiring only 1/3 to 1/2 as many teachers as they did last year. Not good, but it's not a disaster now that I've gotten myself mentally prepared to just sub.
     
  5. MATgrad

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    I'm not alternative certification but I can tell you that I have been asked at some point either on the information sheets each school asks or during a screening interview if I have an education degree. Many administrators do not think highly of Alt-Cert people. Not trying to start a debate just stating a fact. It's an employer's market and they can be picky.
     
  6. kalli007

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    I'm Alt Cert and have secured a job, as have some of my classmates. However, all of us that have were subbing either longterm or pretty frequently at the schools that we got hired.
     
  7. newteachfl

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    I was hired Alternative Certification with no experience in July two years ago. So there is still hope. In my district (in Florida) in service for Alternataive Certification was only 3 days long and they planned it for the week before preplanning started. AND there were a few teachers who showed up half way through the training because they were hired that day. So there's still hope :)
     
  8. rachaelski

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    I disagree with MATGrad, there are some Ps, especially in middle and high school that prefer alternatively certified teachers. In my first school, there was only one teacher that went the traditional route.
     
  9. rachaelski

    rachaelski Habitué

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    There is value in content knowledge and/or classical majors for teachers in the mid/high level.
     
  10. kalli007

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    Especially if you have valuable prior job experience, my new P told me that one of the reasons I beat out traditional route teachers - besides having LTS there - was my previous career. One of my friends from my ACP class was a chemist at DOW (got laid off) and she got a HS science position - no doubt partly due to her experience.
     
  11. SPECIALEDMAN

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    I am working on my Psychology degree with a minor in Education. I was told by a district licensure leader that the minor in education will help because I will have a lot of the “education” classes out of the way. I plan to lateral in to an EC position. Luckily this is a high demand job in my area. Not to sound discriminative, but (especially for men) at the middle/high school level.
     
  12. MATgrad

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    I was spending my day applying for 6 new positions that opened today and thought of this thread. I was told by both districts that they are not accepting anyone without an education degree. Yes, this includes secondary level. I'm not trying to start a debate. We already had one of those. The bottom line is that it is harder for ACP candidates. Subbing, tutoring, volunteering is a great way for ANYONE to get an edge.
     
  13. tb71

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    Good thing I'm not in Florida. :)
    I do have question though on the job postings, does it say anything about ACP candidates? One district I am applying to specifically says they will consider ACP candidates if the required content tests have been passed, and another district even offers their own ACP program.
     
  14. MATgrad

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    Unfortunately, the postings say nothing about it. You'll only know if you call HR and ask. The districts here don't offer ACP programs though. The community colleges used to offer it but that changed last year. When you've got hundreds of applicants for a position, they need some way to wean. It's amazing to me how quickly the job climate changed here.
     
  15. tb71

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    OK--so I still have hope that this hasn't hit the Texas system. Thanks for responding so quick.
     
  16. BLHutch25

    BLHutch25 Rookie

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    Well I am an ACP person. I have only been on one job interview and was offered said job. In my part of Texas, a large chunk of the middle school/high school new hires are ACP. (More than 50 percent if some people are to be believed) My district hires tons of ACP people for the secondary level. (It is kind of a "starter district" with a lot of new teachers) Not elementary though. Most of them come through the traditional route.

    What helped me out was the fact that I worked for the city that the school district is in. I knew some people with the district, etc. I feel kind of guilty when I read these threads and see that so many people are going to multiple interviews and having difficulty finding employment. I had it easy.

    I have three relatives who are teacher/coaches and one who is a teacher but not a coach. All of them were ACP candidates and they all got jobs relatively easily with the exception of my wife who interviewed for 5 positions before getting an offer. My wife got her job this summer, the other two have been teaching for three years now.

    It all depends on where you are. The job market is different everywhere. Even within a particular region, there are those who don't like ACP programs and those that do.

    But remember, it is a tough market for everyone right now.
     
  17. suzerich

    suzerich Companion

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    Ah, but you said the magic word, COACH. I'm in an ACP, had one interview last fall and the one a couple of weeks ago. I've had a hard time of it. I started my program in June of last year. I was pretty certain I could find something this year, then the economy tanked. Now, it looks like that is not going to happen. I don't know if its my age, my old references, the way the applications are created (difficult on some to fill them out correctly because they're not ACP friendly), or the saturation of candidates. I haven't given up, but most of the jobs have dried up in my area and I am locked into a rural area south of Dallas. Teaching in D/FW means a drive of at least 45 minutes in good traffic from my son's school, which is about 20 minutes north of my home.
     
  18. Genmai

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    :agreed:
     
  19. BLHutch25

    BLHutch25 Rookie

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    I think the magic words are actually MATH and SPECIAL ED which is what two of them teach. Then again, maybe not. I know that the coaching jobs in these two instances specifically said math/coach and sped/coach.

    I guess the good old days of "History Coaches" as we called them when I was in high school are over. I use the term "good old days" in a tongue in cheek way. :haha:
     
  20. suzerich

    suzerich Companion

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    My area is History/Social Studies. The districts might post 1-2 SS positions without coaching, but the majority were attached to a coaching position. So, it makes the search even harder if you are not coaching material. And believe me, they don't want me to coach. Academic club, yearbook, choir, band, I could do, anything athletic is totally not me.
     
  21. heymiss

    heymiss Comrade

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    AMEN. I am so tired of applications where none of the options really apply for me, or I have to put "probationary" even though I don't technically have that certificate and won't until I get hired by a district.

    It's pretty hard to get a job in DFW right now. Most of the Dallas ISD jobs seem to be bilingual, so I haven't even applied here, but the other 10+ districts I've applied to just keep sending me emails that say "Thanks but no thanks."

    I've got a BBA and an MBA, so I'm HQ to teach Business 6-12, but that's not what I'm interested in. And even if I WERE, last I checked, there were only 3 openings for that subject in the entire Metroplex! I don't want to drive an hour each way for a job that I don't really want, so I've pretty much resigned myself to subbing for the year and hoping somebody gets knocked up or fed up and decides to quit in the middle of the year. :)
     
  22. BLHutch25

    BLHutch25 Rookie

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    I am sad to say that you are correct. I LOVE history. I have a masters in it. I have always felt that social studies has gotten the shaft in the past when it comes to teachers. The stereotypical history teacher/coach who shows movies instead of covering the material is still all too familiar in Texas. Not as much as when I was in school, but they are still out there.

    It hurts people like yourself who have a genuine desire to teach social studies but can't get a position. I could probably count on one hand the number of SS positions in the Houston area of the past couple of months that were not tied to coaching something.

    It is unfortunate, in my opinion. But I don't see Texas changing any time soon.
     
  23. dkjackson

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    I'm having the same problem finding an English position. I'm pretty shocked, really, at how many positions are attached to a coaching position. And while, like you, I'm much better suited to an academic club, yearbook, newspaper, band, etc., I've started applying to the coaching ones as well. Even one the other day that was attached to a football/softball coaching position. Softball I'm okay with (played for nearly ten years), but football!? Really!? I applied anyway, though, because what's the worst they can say? No thanks. Or they could not reply at all, which is what everyone else is doing anyway. But I applied on the off chance that they like everything else they see about me. I'm ACP as well, so I have next to no experience (a couple of days of subbing and I was an intern at the Texas Book Festival, which I figure looks good when applying for an English position), so they probably won't call. But it can't hurt to apply anyway, or at least that's what I figure.
     
  24. roseteacher12

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    i think it really all depends on the district itself. some principals/districs dont like to hire alt route candidates and some dont mind. some prefer it especially for HS. but again i think it all depends. i have seen few jobs advertised as not accepting alt route and ive seen some that encourage you to apply if you are. i do think it also has to do with what you are alt route for...for example you are pretty much out of luck if you are elem ed in my area becasue even education majors cant get those jobs! however if you are alt route math or science you have a much better shot.
     
  25. Teacherella

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    NJ is saturated with applicants and I haven't heard of an alternate route candidate being hired in a very long time (except special ed. alternate route, but you need to have another teacher cert. too so you're still certified in something). I know some school districts in my area that don't even consider you if you don't have a Masters in whatever you are teaching. Good luck with your search...it's a tough market!
     
  26. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I think you have to look at the area as well. Some areas are just so saturated with teachers, both traditional and ACP, that they have their choice of candidates and can be VERY picky. My sister went through a university ACP program and had no problem getting a job in elem, but that was 4 years ago. My dh will probably end up going through a university ACP program, but he'll be coaching as well.
     
  27. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    Do things work differently in Florida? Most of the high school teachers in this state (that I know) do not have an education degree: they have a content degree + 15 credits of education coursework. Many may also complete a masters, but not for initial certification.
     
  28. rachaelski

    rachaelski Habitué

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    I have never once had anyone question my method of getting licensed. I am asked, "Are you certified to teach in the state of __________?" That's it! Plus, my resume makes it clear that I majored in psychology and sociology in undergrad. I have had luck getting jobs in Tennessee, OHIO, and New Mexico. With TN, I had the aid of TFA to find a position (though I still had to interview), I only applied to 2 schools in Ohio, and I applied to about 4 districts and a couple private schools in NM. I was granted 4 interviews...and 4 offers!

    What I don't get is the big difference. A typical major in college is what, 40-50 semester credit hours? A certification program is around 30-35 hours, you take 10-15 more hours you have a master's degree. Why does 3 or 4 more classes make a traditionally certified teacher more qualified? With ACP people you get a full 4 year degree, plus more credit hours (at the graduate level) tacked on.

    It's true, it varies by state. Just from these posts I can guess that New York, New Jersey, Florida, the Carolinas, California, and Texas are highly saturated states. Everyone is going to have a hard time getting a job.
     
  29. roseteacher12

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    i think the difference is that often acp people dont have much if any teaching experience let alone classes. my BF is alt route and he has to get hired before he takes the classes, i dont know if thats how it works everywhere.
     
  30. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    rose~in TX, what I have heard, is that ACPs take courses in the summer before school starts, then teach for a year where they are under probationary certification where they are observed by a regional employee, a mentor teacher in the district, and the AP or P of the school. After a sucessful completion of that, they are issued a standard certification. If you go through a university, most of the ed classes count towards a masters degree as it did for my sister who went through it.
     
  31. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Comrade

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    I went through Region 11 alternative certification program. I did take the classes and also passed my content exam, Generalist 4-8. I also subbed last school year, 2008-2009 year, in two school districts in all grade levels to gain some experience. I learned a lot on what I should do and won't do as far as if I get hired on as a full time teacher.

    For the Region 11 program, I have been given the option of: 1.) doing student teaching for 12 weeks at a school and completing the rest of my certification if I don't get hired on as a full time teacher or 2.) getting hired on as a full time teacher and complete the rest of my certification during that time. The only difference I'm getting paid in one scenario vs student teaching for free in the other scenario.

    I was also a teacher's aide in the spring semester of 2006, which also helps me out.

    So I've got some experience under my belt compared to others who haven't done any kind of teaching or subbing, etc.
     
  32. heymiss

    heymiss Comrade

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    I did an online program called iTeach Texas because with my grad school schedule, I just couldn't swing the Region 11 classes. That program doesn't require student teaching or anything like that, but I did sub a fair amount last school year. If I'd known how hard it was going to be to get a job this year, I would have subbed a LOT more. I was just being a little lazy and not picking up all the jobs I could/should have because when you get out of class at 11pm, the last thing you want to do is be in a junior high classroom first thing in the morning.

    I've passed the 4-8 Generalist, 4-8 Math, and ESL Supplemental content area exams, and my undergrad coursework gives me HQ in 6-12 Business.

    I wish my program had a student teaching program. I think it would be pretty helpful, but it would have been MOST helpful if I could have done it last spring, but since that was my final semester of my MBA program, it just wouldn't have been possible anyway.

    I'm pretty excited to sub this year, though. I had hoped to have my own classroom, but I'm choosing to look at this as a good way to gain experience and see a lot of classrooms before I get my own. It took me quite a while to come to terms with it (I'm an overachiever, I am NOT used to having to struggle so hard to get a darn job!), but now that I have, I'm actually wishing school would hurry up and start.
     
  33. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I subbed for a few years before transferring to finish my degree, and I think I learned more than I could have through student teaching. You get exposed to so many classroom management styles. Just by reading classroom postings/materials and notes from the teacher and seeing how the kids behave, you can quickly figure out a lot of things that work and a lot that don't. I know I am being thrown into the deep end with my first teaching job, but I am not too worried about my classroom management skills. I also had to teach lessons without benefit of knowing the kids and their learning styles, so I know I can think on my feet and adapt lessons on the fly as needed. I think subbing experience can be undervalued because a lot of people don't really take advantage of what there is to learn.
     
  34. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Comrade

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    So you thought you learned more through student teaching than subbing as far as different classroom management styles, designing lesson plans, and so on?
     
  35. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I have not done student teaching, nor will I. From talking to people and fellow students though, I feel that I have probably picked up a lot of the skills they work on during ST, and I am positive that my classroom management skills are better. As for designing lesson plans, I did learn a lot by reviewing classwork and lessons left by the teachers as well as by chatting with teachers in the lounges. I am sure student teaching is better than subbing for that sort of thing, but I also think that none of that matters if classroom management skills are lousy. I will be working with a mentor on things like lesson planning and starting my grad classes on teaching methods and planning a couple weeks before I start teaching.

    I just think there is a great deal to be learned through subbing, if one takes full advantage of the opportunities. I also know people who subbed and just basically acted as a warm body. I doubt they got much of use out of the experience.
     
  36. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Comrade

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    Gotcha. I subbed throughout all of last school year with two school districts. Some days were better than others. Depended on what school, grade level, and how the main teacher was with classroom management and behavior.

    Majority of the time I was on my feet helping students with their work or teaching. I did teaching more in the elementary grade levels than in middle and high school.

    Sometimes I was only there to watch over the class. It happened a lot in the high school level, which a lot of people will agree if they have subbed in the high school level.

    Student teaching is good for designing lesson plans and modifying them for those students who need it. You also see the classes or class everyday. However, substituting does allow you to work with different grade levels and different subjects. It also helped me decided how I would run things as far as classroom management is concerned if I got hired on as a full time teacher.
     
  37. mollydoll

    mollydoll Connoisseur

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    I am happy I got at least some experience with this while subbing. I did mostly prearranged science and math, so the teachers trusted me with actual lessons. This meant I also got feedback as to how well the material clicked (or didn't :whistle:) with the kids. I was the "go to" sub for chemistry at 3 different high schools because the teachers knew I could teach a lesson plan for even a full week and they could come back and not really be much behind where they wanted. For PD days, I would usually get the plans a few days in advance, so I had time to prepare. I also got to sub in classes that had team teachers. On those days, I would either observe the tt teach the lesson and do one-on-one help after, or I would teach and then get to observe how the tt modified for certain kids. Some of the tt's were so full of information for me, so I learned a lot this way too.

    I think I was really lucky to have subbed for a huge district with tons of opportunities. I'm also not sure why subbing didn't scare me away into a different profession. :lol:
     
  38. roseteacher12

    roseteacher12 Habitué

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    ohhh again i dont know how this works for other states even other candidates within programs but my BF applied and got his cert and has to find a job then take classes and such. so in reality he has had not one education course before finding a teaching job. he is lucky in the fact that he has me lol who knows a heck of a lot about education to steer him in the right direction =) also he subbed for almost this whole past year.
     
  39. jtkal

    jtkal New Member

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    ACP preparing for first year teaching!

    I went through an ACP program, passed the Spec Ed, EC-4 Generalist, ESL Supplemental and had no luck getting an interview last summer and even into the early fall. I decided to sub as much as possible and hope for the best. Then shortly after the school year began I saw a posting for an Instructional Aide at the elementary I wanted to ultimately teach at!!! Okay, so... not the pay I hoped for but it would give me the time I needed to gain experience and prove my work ethic and abilities to administration. I applied, called the office and got an interview the following day. What a great decision that was. I looked at each and every day as an interview for my dream job and that helped keep me focused on the big picture. I got a chance to know the staff, the dynamics of the campus and the student population which all served to make me a viable candidate should a position become available. At the end of the school year I had my campus administrators wanting to keep me and if they could not they assured me that they would help me get hired at a good campus. Well, I am so happy to say that there was only one opening on my campus and I was the candidate chosen by the interviewing team and administration.
    If you are considering working as a sub do also consider taking a full-time entry level position to help get your foot in the door. You will have to work very hard for small pay but hey something is better than nothing! Always remember to keep your eye on the prize.

    Oh, and the only reason the school had an aide position come available was because the prior aide was certified and offered a teaching position at another campus. Furthermore, the aide I worked closest with also has a teaching position for the coming year.
     
  40. SPECIALEDMAN

    SPECIALEDMAN Companion

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    Although I actually have a full time job; I do take a vacation day here and there to sub while I am working on my Psychology degree. Exposure is important when it comes to getting a job. I have already been told by one of my P’s at a middle school that she wants to hire me when I finish. I know that this will depend on an available position but that alone gives me an advantage over a “blind applicant” coming across the desk.

    Alternate licensing is fairly popular in my district. All of our job postings begin with:

    “Minimum of a Bachelor's degree from regionally accredited college in a related field. North Carolina Teacher Certification in Business Education or eligible for licensure.”

    I think school administrators are seeing the talent and “hands on” experience a lot of non-traditional teachers can bring to the classroom. I’m hoping that my subbing and minor in Education will help. Plus they are building a brand new middle school and a brand new high school beginning 2010 in my area.
     
  41. MATgrad

    MATgrad Groupie

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    I subbed for three years when I went back to school. I found the experience to be invaluable. I learned so much about discipline, organization, flexibility and efficiency. I also did student teaching. Each had their positives and each had their negatives.

    Subbing also is a great way to build connections. In this market I'm finding that it's connections that get you interviews. Your still on your own getting the job.
     

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