Advice on Multiple Job Offers

Discussion in 'Job Seekers' started by ssmeow, Aug 11, 2016.

  1. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 11, 2016

    Hello everyone,
    I posted a similar post yesterday, but it seems to have been deleted. Anyone know why that would happen?

    I have the opportunity to be a teaching assistant for an excellent school district. I also have the opportunity to work as a 4th grade teacher in a not so great district. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on what they would do in this situation?

    I am concerned that if I work in the teaching position, I will get "stuck" in that district. That is why I am considering the assistant position over the teaching position.

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    Sara
     
  2.  
  3. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,495
    Likes Received:
    2,531

    Aug 11, 2016

    I would take the regular teaching position, not the assistant position.

    I think that it's much more likely that you'd get stuck in the position of being a teaching assistant than that you'd get stuck in a district.
     
    Peregrin5 likes this.
  4. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    204

    Aug 11, 2016

    Totally agree with, Caesar. I was a TA for 8 years and it was really hard to shake that for whatever reason. No one seemed to really value it much as experience. If you hate the school you're teaching at and want to move on, it'll be much easier to do with actual teaching experience. Plus you never know about a not so great district. I work in one of the lowest performing schools in one of the lowest performing districts in my state and I love it. I'm so happy I ended up here. The kids are tough but fun and the teachers and administration are wonderful. It was a really supportive environment for a first year teacher, something that a lot of my friends in "good" districts seemed to complain about. It's truly a pleasure to come to work.
     
  5. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    206

    Aug 11, 2016

    See also: Teaching, Substitute
     
    Leaborb192 likes this.
  6. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,180

    Aug 11, 2016

    The "rationale" being: we have a sub shortage and don't want to lose you as a steady, reliable sub teacher. And yet, when they have a FT vacancy, who do they pick? Well you could either look at who you have now --which includes sub teachers -- or go outside the District. Either way, you'll have to hire someone! Why not select someone you already know in the District? There are articles written about how subbing isn't a guarantee to a FT job, but really if you do a great job and prove yourself, it should be. Like you have said: it really is a backhanded compliment. We're not giving you this job, but feel free to continue to sub. You're "great!"
    :mad::banghead:

    This is why I have no real connections or investments in one District or another. I just go where the job is. I'm going back to school to increase my own marketability and to further my own knowledge of the profession, but I'll probably end up relocating to North Carolina in summer 2018. I'm really keeping my eye on the job postings.
     
    mckbearcat48 and newteacher99 like this.
  7. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 11, 2016

    SO TRUE!!

    I did a "great job" as a LTS in my last district but when they had openings they did not call me, they posted them. I know no one and make no friends. Why bother? I am sick and tired of being an outsider and not being recognized for my talent and qualifications. Im ready to ditch this "career".
     
  8. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    133

    Aug 11, 2016

    Districts are legally required to post openings. Then they interview people who apply for the posted jobs. If you didn't apply, they might have thought you'd already found a job. I'm sorry this happened, but it's good that you now have a better understanding of the standard protocol.
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  9. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,180

    Aug 11, 2016

    Devil's Advocate: the process is all a formality and they already know who they want to hire when they post the job or at least have a really good idea. And it's a huge bummer when you bust your ass and it's not you. This goes in hand with the other post about the teacher who LTS who didn't even get an interview for the 10 openings in the district. Was that this poster?
    I guess the advice would be: kiss as much ass as you can and become golf buddies with the P and Super. If you can drink with these people at a bar, they may just hire you. I've seen friends pics on FB where they are out with the admin... a lot of them are Greek alumni ... so... yeah...:roll:
     
    newteacher99 and Tutor like this.
  10. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Aug 11, 2016

    How do you know schools are legally required to post jobs? I don't think most schools by me post positions if there's a sub or student teacher they want to hire. They just hire them.
     
    Leaborb192 likes this.
  11. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    13,982
    Likes Received:
    1,798

    Aug 11, 2016

    Here, all open positions must be posted and, as per our collective agreement, the hiring process must be transparent. The reality is that there is very little outside hiring for permanent positions; those who are on the sub list and have done long term positions are those hired. They do, however, need to go through the process and there are no guarantees. I have worked with several teachers who have done long-term assignments at our school but haven't been hired for permanent positions either because they didn't complete the application process properly or because there were other applicants who were more qualified.
     
  12. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    206

    Aug 11, 2016

    Same here on the legal responsibility. A district would get killed in court if a qualified teacher candidate sued them based on a non-posted job.
     
  13. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    133

    Aug 11, 2016

    I guess my advice would be to actually apply for jobs, not turn in a resume to a P and wait for a phone call.
     
  14. Tutor

    Tutor Comrade

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    289
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 11, 2016

    I saw a posting go up on a Thursday for "multiple" tutor positions. I applied right away. On Sunday I was looking at the Bd of Ed agenda and saw all the names of the tutors to be approved the next day. No way they interviewed and chose in just a day. Posting was a formality. IT sucks!
     
    newteacher99 and Leaborb192 like this.
  15. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,180

    Aug 11, 2016

    Were any related to the hiring people or bffs with them? I love when I look on the BOE agenda and see that the candidates being recommended for jobs share the P, Super or BOE' last name... HMMM... I wonder what this means?! I come from a REALLY small town. We all know how things run here.
    LOL
    :rofl::toofunny:
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  16. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Aug 11, 2016

    Interesting. Who was more qualified doesn't matter for an opening unless its internal. Like if I asked to be moved to a specialist position and have all the qualifications and more years of service and someone else in my school got it with less seniority and the same qualifications then there's a problem and the union gets involved.

    Nobody would really ever know who was hired and why from the outside looking in until the first day of school. There's no board meeting or minutes. Even then, let's say subs wouldn't know why. Here P's can do what they want, hire how they want. There's no protocol. They can hire straight from an interview or do multiple rounds. There's no formality. Someone I student taught with was hired when she came back to visit her kids and spoke to the principal. That's it.

    Positions have to be posted on the HR side to be hired (only HR can see this) but there doesn't have to be an official posting on behalf of the school. That's why here basically none of the best districts even post they have positions even for the hard to fill jobs. They get so many resumes regardless if there's an opening or not. I have friends who got jobs this way.

    I distinctly remember years ago when I tried to get a job a person in the job recruitment office asked if I was looking in Staten Island. I said no, why? He was like well they never post jobs on the new teacher finder, they do things differently over there. I don't know what that meant, but I do know that the new teacher finder is the online system to look and apply for job postings for external candidates. So if one borough doesn't use it, it's obviously not illegal if you don't post a vacancy in NYC.
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  17. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 11, 2016

    There are still people who insist that the Ps hire the "best person for the job". However, at my last school, someone got a job and was kicked out of it so the P's niece could have a job. Illegal?

    I think that this is why schools are not performing. There are people who are not qualified in some very high paying jobs who are there because they know the right people. There is a lot of underhanded stuff going on. What irks me is that this is public money. Same for state jobs. Most high paying jobs where people are appointed are obtained through favors.
     
  18. Leaborb192

    Leaborb192 Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    1,180

    Aug 11, 2016

    WHAT? Are you saying NEPOTISM happens?! No WAY! Some people got after me for saying this and were "offended" by the notion that some people are hired because of who they know. Even though I wasn't talking about them.
    Even though you & I know it's totally true! I know plenty of people who I'm sure worked hard, but it didn't hurt that they shared the same last name with the hiring folk.
    :D;)
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  19. ZoeMarie

    ZoeMarie Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    3

    Aug 11, 2016

    I would consider taking the TA position but after a year if you apply for a teaching position and aren't hired then look for a job elsewhere. My cooperating teacher gave me that advice and it seems to make sense. Although gaining the teaching experience is probably more worthwhile. I think whichever gives you a balance between happiness in the position and good experience is the one you should go with.
     
  20. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    5,279
    Likes Received:
    748

    Aug 11, 2016

    I would take the teaching position, but go with your gut.
     
  21. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 11, 2016

    Thank you very much for sharing your opinions and advice. I see it is definitely something that people have mixed views on. I have until Monday to make my decision, but I am leaning more towards the TA position. Another thing about the assistant position, I can walk to work.
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  22. mathteachertobe

    mathteachertobe Cohort

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    133

    Aug 11, 2016

    I'm sorry, I got side-tracked and forgot to give you advice. My recommendation is to take the teaching job. Classroom teaching is so much better for your growth as an educator than assisting someone else.
     
  23. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,840
    Likes Received:
    2,674

    Aug 11, 2016

    OP, I don't quite understand the rationale of getting stuck in a district just because you take a contract for the year. If you don't like it, when it comes time to sign a letter of intent for the following year, simply decline. A year of full time teaching experience trumps a year of TA experience, hands down. I am sure that there is a significant pay difference, although benefits may be the same or similar. Most prospective teachers on this forum would give anything for the chance to have their own classroom, grow and learn as a teacher. I always say follow your heart, but the TA position seems like one foot in, one foot out of teaching. You may think you know what teaching is as a TA, but it looks very different from the other side of the desk. Honestly, just the difference in income would be enough to make up my mind, but then, I always believe in getting paid for what I know. As a TA, aren't you worried about selling yourself short? Just wondering why the salary isn't high on your list to discuss.
     
  24. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 12, 2016

    Vickilyn,
    Thank you for your advice. I never thought I would take a TA position over a teaching position, but the TA position is in an excellent school that a lot of people try very hard to get into - even for non-teaching jobs. I did not do a very good job explaining my doubts about the teaching position. I actually think I would love teaching at this particular school - the one thing I would not enjoy is the low pay for the job. The job pays about $10,000 / year less than other districts in the area. The salary increases are also very low, even with additional education. When I said I was afraid of being stuck, I have heard of principals refusing to give letters of recommendation for high performing teachers, because they do not want to lose them. Also, I would feel guilty starting at a school and building relationships knowing that it is not where I see myself long term. I always pictured that once I secured a teaching position, I would stay in the same position / school for a while. The thing with the TA position is that if I am not able to transition into a teaching job at that school, it will be natural for me to seek a teaching job elsewhere.
    I hope I was able to clarify my thoughts - I know on the surface it does seem like taking the teaching position is the logical thing to do.
     
  25. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,840
    Likes Received:
    2,674

    Aug 12, 2016

    There are LORs to be had besides the principal's. If your evaluations are excellent, they will do the talking for you. New teachers routinely leave the first job for an unlimited number of reasons, so I honestly think you are overthinking that part of the equation. Leaving for a higher paying job when you can do so without breaking a contract would be an acceptable reason for moving on, and any district which can't match the salary knows that they are at risk of losing their most talented teachers. The fact that you spent a year doing a great job while you gained valuable experience is a win/win, and I think you over estimate any possible "hostility" from the admin you are leaving. However, if you don't mind the lower take home pay, who am I to judge? One and done doesn't seem unfair or unreasonable to me, but if it does to you, so be it.
     
  26. geoteacher

    geoteacher Devotee

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    231

    Aug 12, 2016

    In my district, teaching would always trump a TA position. In the 20 years that I've been associated with my district, exactly two TAs have moved from TA to teacher.
     
  27. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Aug 12, 2016

    I think you need to ask yourself what is the possibility of moving up from TA to teacher in the district. On this forum many will tell you it's hard to do within the one school/district. I've said on other threads on this forum that people need to let go that they will get their ideal position from their dream school fresh out of the gate. What happens next year when they have an open position and someone from the district you didn't want to applies and they hire this person over you because they have actual teaching experience? It happens more often than not, so it's something to think about.

    Many P's like to hire TEACHERS from less desirable districts because they know people want to move. Teacher experience anywhere trumps TA experience within the same school. I just want you to really think about it. Ultimately it's your decision.

    I wish more people who got stuck in TA roles and can't get a teaching job and was passed over because they didn't have actual teaching experience would explain a been there done that scenario on this thread to you.

    Good luck with whatever you choose.
     
    teacherintexas likes this.
  28. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,840
    Likes Received:
    2,674

    Aug 12, 2016

    I can offer that if you are a really good sub, you may never be hired as a teacher. They either have to be desperate or feeling magnanimous to hire from their sub pool. Great subs are hard to find, teachers are plentiful. TAs continue to remain TA - why hire you as a teacher when you will work for half the money. We always value that which costs more, and that is the experienced teacher. They have learned, over the years, that nothing trumps being at the front of the classroom. Students can tell you decades later about their best teacher - I bet they can't even give you the name of the TA, or tell you why they were there. :2cents:
     
    Bunnie and mckbearcat48 like this.
  29. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    78

    Aug 12, 2016

    Take the teaching experience. Being a TA is exactly that: a teacher assistant meaning that that the certified teacher is the one in charge. That is how principals look at it. Take the teaching position.
     
    vickilyn likes this.
  30. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    206

    Aug 12, 2016

    Being a good sub is a self-fulfilling prophecy in a lot of districts. With schools of education telling teacher candidates to avoid substitute teaching...the "sub shortage" is going to get worse. If you have the opportunity to be a teacher, take it. You will regret not doing it.
     
    newteacher99 likes this.
  31. mckbearcat48

    mckbearcat48 Cohort

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    545
    Likes Received:
    206

    Aug 12, 2016

    I love to read your posts. I got burned chasing a "dream job" this year, and I appreciate what you had to say about it.
     
  32. heatherberm

    heatherberm Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    204

    Aug 12, 2016

    You've heard that about this particular school/district or just in general? Because I've never really seen or heard of that happening, generally speaking. My current administrator has happily given references to a lot of teachers who have moved on for a variety of reasons. I think most people in education are understanding of the fact that people move on sometimes. And as someone else mentioned, recommendations don't necessarily have to come from a principal. My most effective reference was from a mentor teacher who actually saw me in the classroom a lot more than any administrator ever has.

    Just to elaborate since Bunnie asked for it: I was a TA for 8 years in a special education classroom. The classroom had multiple grade levels and the teacher basically gave me one of the grade levels and told me to teach it however I wanted so I did a lot more planning, teaching, and assessing than the average TA does. I helped write IEP goals, I tracked data for various things. I got a lot of experience doing a lot of different things with a lot of different kinds of students and made sure to bring all of that up in every teaching interview I went on. It really didn't seem to make any difference at all, even for special education jobs. I often got comments like, "But you don't have any *teaching* experience?" I ended up subbing for a year and it wasn't until I spent that year doing a few long-term subbing placements that interview panels seemed interested in my previous experience. That subbing experience was, in their minds, more valuable than any of the TA experience and it wasn't even close. And this isn't just inference on my part. Like I said, there were many comments like above that made it clear that TA experience did not equal teaching experience.

    That said, I work in a part of the country where the teaching market is still very tight. You've already gotten one teaching offer and if you're confident you'll get another one next year, maybe you'll be fine. I never would have passed on a teaching offer here and in fact, took one that I planned on leaving ASAP because it wasn't want I thought I wanted at all - wrong part of the state, wrong grade level, wrong content area, gen ed and not special ed, in a school that even other people in the same district shy away from - but I wanted a foot in the door. As it turns out, I *love* my job and where I work and can't imagine leaving so you never know and most people would definitely consider it a "not so great" district.

    Like someone else said, it's ultimately your choice and you should follow your heart. But I would caution against thinking a year as a TA is going to help you too much later.
     
  33. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Aug 12, 2016

    Thank you, I just hope to share my knowledge and opinions from either what I've experienced/seen or what my closest teacher friends have. The job hunting game it really tough out there for teachers when there are many places that are over saturated. Better to be realistic vs. idealistic.
     
  34. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 13, 2016

    I was speaking generally when I mentioned the possibility of not getting a principal recommendation. I have not heard of this happening in this school, but I know a couple of people who have had that happen to them.
    After giving it more thought, I think taking the teaching position is the best decision. I am very eager to have my own classroom. I think it is such a shame that administration does not think of teaching assistant jobs as teaching experience. Like you said Heather, when you were a TA you were assuming the responsibilities of a teacher. That should count for something, not that I expect higher starting pay for TA experience, but at least recognition that most TAs are actually teaching.
    Everyone's feedback has been very helpful. Thank you. I feel less terrible about the idea of leaving the district after 1 year.
     
    heatherberm and Bunnie like this.
  35. vickilyn

    vickilyn Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,840
    Likes Received:
    2,674

    Aug 13, 2016

    There is always the possibility that it will turn out to be your dream job, but it can at least be a stepping stone to your ideal. Best of luck!
     
    Bunnie and MrsC like this.
  36. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,495
    Likes Received:
    2,531

    Aug 13, 2016

    Although there are certainly some TAs who have been able to assume a more active role when it comes to educating students, it is my experience that the responsibilities of a TA differ greatly from those of a regular classroom teacher. At my school, TAs typically escort students to and from specials, monitor behaviors on the playground and in the cafeteria, assist the teacher with housekeeping tasks like copies and bulletin boards, assist students with stuff like putting on coats, etc. They might do read-alouds or help out with motor skills stuff like cutting and gluing or help the librarian with book check-out. Beyond that sort of thing, though, they don't do the things that the classroom teacher does. They don't do many assessments or data analysis, write report cards, meet with parents, differentiate instruction, ensure that the lessons are age-appropriate and meaningful, etc.

    I certainly think that TAs are useful and often necessary, but what it takes to be a great TA isn't what it takes to be a good teacher (in my experience). I hope I'm not offending anyone by having this opinion, but it's how I feel about this topic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  37. LouiseB

    LouiseB Cohort

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    78

    Aug 13, 2016

    I agree with Caesar completely. I couldn't do my job without the help of paraprofessionals/TAs but they are not ultimately responsible for the students, I am. Everything they do is under the supervision of the certified teacher who takes that responsibility even when not physically there. Experience as a TA will only show that you have been in a school but not show that you have assumed the responsibilities of the certified teacher.
     
  38. newteacher99

    newteacher99 Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    2

    Aug 13, 2016

    Those who get on you most likely are protecting their sweet situations. They feel guilty. Yes there are those who worked hard, but its hard to explain how a newbie without a license is hired before veteran teachers with multiple licenses (and I am not referring to myself. I am a NEW teacher).
     
  39. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 18, 2016

    I just wanted to say thank you again to you all for your advice and input. I have officially accepted the teaching position. First day of school is next week Thursday, and I am very excited and nervous.
    Ultimately is was the thought of spending the majority of my day managing / escorting students vs. helping them learn that made me choose the teacher position over the aide position. Also, like many people have said, it is extremely competitive right now and I feel very lucky that I have a teaching job for the upcoming year. I wish everyone the best!
     
    Caesar753 and Bunnie like this.
  40. Bunnie

    Bunnie Devotee

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    165

    Aug 18, 2016

    Have a great first year teaching ssmeow!
     
    ssmeow likes this.
  41. ssmeow

    ssmeow Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7

    Aug 18, 2016

    Thank you!
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. mrsf70,
  2. MissCeliaB,
  3. paul4422
Total: 186 (members: 4, guests: 166, robots: 16)
test