504

Discussion in 'Special Education' started by Blue, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. Blue

    Blue Aficionado

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    My GS has a 504 as he is ADHD. The counselor listed about 3 things on his 504. When we requested other accommodations, she told us to email his teachers.

    With his meds, you would not know GS has a 504. None of his teachers knew at the beginning of the year until we emailed them. Is it the parents job to let the teachers know?

    We met with the counselor this morning, and she told us GS was doing great. When we got his grade reports, his scores are all about 70%. To me, that is not great. We will be requesting another meeting.

    What is the role of the parent and counselor in your school?
     
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  3. EMonkey

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    It may not be the job of the parents to pass on the 504 documents; but I would advise it. It is a lot easier to be sure the teacher got it if you were the one to give it to the teacher. Unless a child is a serious issue or seriously struggling often the teacher does not look at the cum folders until the end of the year since the information is limited.

    If you want to add things to the 504 you would need to meet with the teachers, counselor to decide as a group whether the new accommodations will be feasible in the classroom.
     
  4. Ima Teacher

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    We have a 504 coordinator in the building who makes sure that information is passed along to the teachers.

    Without someone like that in the building, I'd never know otherwise. I see over 100 students per day. I don't have time to check every child's cumulative folder. I never check unless there is an issue that warrants it. A well-behaved student making a 70% would not be on my radar.
     
  5. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Our counselors are in charge of 504. They are in charge of making sure the teachers know the accommodations students receive. If you have concerns, then definitely ask for a meeting.
     
  6. bros

    bros Phenom

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    The 504 coordinator is responsible for distributing that stuff to teachers. Contact the district or school 504 Coordinator.
     
  7. chebrutta

    chebrutta Enthusiast

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    It should be the 504 coordinator's job to pass that info along to the teacher. They do sometimes drop the ball, most of the time completely unintentionally. (we have a new ESE director, brand new to the school and the job, and completely overwhelmed. He missed giving me an IEP, and the only reason I knew the child had one was because I was his Hospital Homebound teacher last year. So all's well that ends well, we got the IEP before school started, but still.)

    I would contact the counselor and find out who is in charge of handling the 504 distribution. Then contact that person and express your concerns that GS's teacher were not given a copy of his 504. Then I would have another meeting and discuss the accommodations listed and my concerns that the current accommodations are not adequately meeting GS's needs in the classroom.
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Our counselors handle the distribution of 504s. They don't send them out immediately on the first day of school; sometimes it can take a few weeks or a month to get the 504s out to teachers. With schedule changes (common in the beginning of the year), sometimes things get lost in the shuffle for a while.

    If the issue is a serious one, I would recommend that the parent take 10 seconds and email me with the information I need to know so that I can make sure to do what the 504 asks, even if it takes a few weeks to get the document from the counselor.

    As for the 70% thing: I wouldn't view a C as a problem grade. Barring any other problems (behaviors, tardies, whatever), I would consider that to be "doing fine" and not reason for concern. Do you not have online access to view grades yourself? If not, you could always ask your grandson to have teachers fill out a grade check--either type up a fancy one or just use a plain sheet of paper where teachers write the current grade and behavior grade, along with any other notes or comments. That way you won't be surprised by a 70% if that's not acceptable in your house.
     
  9. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Different schools have different procedures regarding 504/IEP distribution. It is the responsibility of the school to ensure the teachers have the 504/IEP the first minute of school because accommodations and services can't possibly be given if a teacher is unaware. It is illegal to not provide students with disabilities services or accommodations. It is not the parent's role to let the teachers know, but unfortunately, not all schools take student's needs seriously enough to provide the teachers with the documentation they need to provide the accommodations or services.

    Caesar tells a familiar story. That story played out in my district because a fair number of schools, not all, were actually found to be playing the make excuses for not handing out the IEP/504s by day 1 game. Let's just say, it didn't end well for the district and it made it worse for those that were doing things right in the first place because the district then had to have all schools provide written proof that each teacher had the IEP/504s for each student. It also had to be done in person. Oh, the schools that were doing it correctly all along were livid! They had to pay the price of the others that felt it was acceptable to violate the law because it might be a bit inconvenient to make sure student's needs were known on day one.
     
  10. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    The idea of a parent needing to inform a teacher of a 504 plan seems unfathomable to me. The 504 plan is a legal document. Not following it is a issue for a school, and to put it bluntly, any assessment or grade given when the school was out of compliance should be thrown out.
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Is it the law that 504s and IEPs have to be sent out "the first minute of school"?
     
  12. gr3teacher

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    They are a legal document, and students are entitled to have the accommodations met. Teachers might not need to have the document in their hands, but any time the student's 504 plan or IEP is not being met, the school is out of compliance.
     
  13. Tasha

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    We always have that information before the first day of school. Also, our attendance and grades software shows students with 504, IEP, or any accommodations.
     
  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    So there is zero leeway? If the 504 comes from the previous school, then the current school must enforce it even if they don't know about it? If a meeting is held and changes are made, the information must be disseminated immediately, without even an hour's hesitation, or the school is out of compliance?
     
  15. gr3teacher

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    There's typically a 30-day turnaround for transfer students, and the recommendations I've always seen are about a 48 hour turnaround on new meetings.
     
  16. gr3teacher

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    Of course, it's obviously a lot easier to make sure all teachers get the important info at the elementary level than at the high school level.
     
  17. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Are those times mandated by law?

    I feel like I need to add an addendum to my previous post. When I stated earlier that it can take a few weeks or a month for a 504 to get to me at the beginning of the year, it's because those students are coming from another school (a middle school). The delay probably isn't because the counselor is lazy or not doing his/her job, but because it takes a while for documentation to make it from one place to another. If 30 days is an acceptable/typical/legal delay, then my school isn't out of compliance.

    Even so, I will stand by my suggestion earlier: if it's a serious matter, then the parent needs to email the teachers and give a heads up. Thirty days is a long time to go without services if those services are necessary. If a quick email can eliminate the problem of a student not receiving services, then why not do it? Why focus on who should be sending on the information and instead just focus on getting as much support for your kid as possible from the get-go?
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    This is true. It's also easier to share information when students are registered ahead of time. In more transient schools and districts, this is a near (or actual) impossibility. Just this year my school registered over 800 students AFTER the first day of school; the principal rejected over 300 zone variance applications on top of that. Obviously none of those students' teachers knew about their 504s and IEPs from the first minute.
     
  19. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    If we are talking about a middle school within the district to a high school within the district, the lag time doesn't apply. It is still within the same district. The move of middle school students to high school is predictable even when middle school students split to different high schools.

    I expect your procedures within your district is different from our district. Once a student is registered within the district, the student just moves through the pyramid except in specific situations such as a specific academic program not being offered at their specified high school per their home address. There are not pick-and-choose schools in our district. There is no registering at a high school unless coming from another district.
     
  20. LouiseB

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    Many schools do not do 504 because of RTI or in the fact that there is no money associated with 504. At least this is true in my state. By law a teacher can provide what the student needs. I also believe that a 504 is for temporary issues such as a broken leg, etc. a 504 is not a long term issue. Again this is in my state.
     
  21. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    My district is basically a school-of-choice district with numerous magnet programs. Besides that, the district encompasses the entire county. Students can go just about anywhere they want, provided that they meet certain eligibility requirements.
     
  22. a2z

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    Thanks for the explanation. Our district is also county-wide, but we don't have the same movement within schools.

    My comment is not aimed at you because you don't control the way the district manages themselves. However, with current technology it is possible for current IEP/504 plans to be scanned and stored in a central location so that every school can have access of the information in a relatively rapid manner.

    There are ways to create procedures so that a student doesn't have a 30 day lag without services. I do believe if someone filed a complaint your district would be in hot water.
     
  23. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Here is what the government says about 504 plans. I think you need to read .

    http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html
     
  24. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Oh, that's certainly possible.
     
  25. dgpiaffeteach

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    We have 504s on the first day. They are in a shared documenting our staff share folder.

    Also, in my district a 70% is a D-. That would definitely NOT be acceptable to me!
     
  26. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Are there any concerns that it could be a violation of confidentiality to have all that stuff accessible by everyone on the staff?
     
  27. LouiseB

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    I did read it. It doesn't say that we have to do a 504. It states that we need to be in compliance with discrimination for a disability. There must be something on documentation for a disability. If there is a proven disability in all likelihood the student would have an IEP. There are many disabilities that would fall under OHI which includes ADHD. I didn't say we don't provide services but probably students who would need a 504 would have a disability that would qualify for an IEP. Do you work in sped? Just curious.
     
  28. dgpiaffeteach

    dgpiaffeteach Aficionado

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    I don't think so because we're so small. On a daily basis I deal with every grade in our school through classes, study hall, etc...

    Most of ours are medical so the whole staff should know anyway. Like our girl with seizures could have one anywhere.
     
  29. teacherintexas

    teacherintexas Maven

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    I didn't find out about a 504 for one of my students until we had been in school for six weeks, and I had to request the information. My counselor isn't knocking herself out.
     
  30. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I guess your district just gives a lot of IEPs. IEPs are tough to come by in my district which is why there are more 504s. So, you are giving 504s within the confines of the IEP.

    A 504 can be for a long term issue. We have many students with ADHD who have 504s all through school because they don't need specially designed instruction. They just need accommodations. The students whose ADHD impact their academic learning or have severe behavioral problems do end up with IEPs.
     
  31. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Yeah, I just found out that a student who has been here since the beginning of school needs special education services, but hasn't been getting them because no one knew! Now we're scrambling to get testing done (since he's due) and his annual meeting done.
     
  32. gr3teacher

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    Based on your explanation, I have a feeling that many of your IEP students would be 504 students here. For example, in my gifted program, many students end up with 504 plans for ADHD. There's no need for specialized instruction or academic goals, but the student does need accommodations (extended time, redirection, etc). Classroom teachers ideally would do these sorts of things anyway, but the 504 plan makes it legal and required.
     
  33. LouiseB

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    You are correct. We can have the student with ADHD on an IEP as long as we have documentation from a physician. There are students who we suspect are ADHD but not diagnosed with the disorder. Those students do have plans that are under the watchful eye of the counselor.
     
  34. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    I'm still confused about your policy. What about students that have documented ADHD but do not have the need for goals or other related services. Do you qualify that student for an IEP anyway? If so, what types of goals do you have for that student? I really am curious because getting an IEP for a student with ADHD that doesn't have major behavior problems or severe academic deficits just doesn't happen here.

    Is it the money you mentioned in your first post that drives this?
     
  35. LouiseB

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    Before this student can be considered there is a SAT meeting. I'm not part of the SAT team so I really have no idea what is discussed. I teach 7th-8th so most of the time the ADHD has been diagnosed years before. Also most of the time there isn't any psych report because the student already qualifies. (My opinion is we do need it but that's out of my hands.) the psych does do a behavioral test to see to what extent the OHI is having in the classroom. Usually those that may be diagnosed but aren't having issues usually are doing ok in the classroom. As to goals, that can be an issue. I may only have a goal about organization or paying attention. (I'm not giving the exact goal however.) if other tests such as state testing or MAPS type test show an issue then I might add it. Much of the time as case manager I'm the one to see that things get done, a place to keep assignments, etc. the guidance counselor is the one who is monitoring the ADHD students not qualifying. Again that student may be in a junior high study hall with me but as I said it all starts with the SAT process. One year we had a discussion about 504s at our school. Sped people were not involved because 504 is not a sped issue.
     
  36. a2z

    a2z Virtuoso

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    Thanks for the information. It seems you district might just have looser standards for allowing IEPs for OHI.
     
  37. gr3teacher

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    Yeah, that seems like it's the case. That would drive me nuts as a SPED teacher. They tend to be fairly loose with giving OHI labels anyway... take away the possibility of 504's, and I can only imagine all the useless paperwork I would have needed to do for SPED-but-not-really-SPED kids.
     
  38. LouiseB

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    I agree at times. Bottom line is I know I'm helping them keep organized because at this level, most have a different teacher every period ( with no homeroom.)
     
  39. Blue

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    Thanks for all the information. From this, I see that schools have different expectations for 504s. We started this process with the school a month before school started. It took 3 months, and our insistence before we could get the counselor to act. We don't mind contacting the teachers, but really feel that it is the school's job to distribute this information. But, from this discussion, we shall take it upon ourselves to contact teachers. We do have a parent web site to view grades, but none our up yet. As for grades, this child is capable of straight As. We would be happy with Bs and Cs.
     
  40. kevo2005

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    We initially 504 ADHD but if they continue to struggle and not make grade level standards we IEP them.
     
  41. bros

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    30 days is mandated by IDEA for IEPs. A meeting must be held within 30 minutes of transferring into the district
     

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