4 1/2 year pooping in class pls help

Discussion in 'Preschool' started by newprschteacher, May 25, 2009.

  1. newprschteacher

    newprschteacher Rookie

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 25, 2009

    Hi all,

    I have a 4 1/2 year old boy who chooses to poop in his pants every day. He will use the potty only to pee. I had a conference with his parents regarding this issue. But they have refused to work on his training other than saying that this is a power struggle for the boy and he does it at home also. They want us to send back his extremely soiled underwear. I am at my wits end -- this child plays with his poop, and seems to need some help to oversome this hurdle.

    Please help me with some suggestions.

    Thanks
     
  2.  
  3. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 25, 2009

    He plays with his poop? Do you think there is a developmental delay, or do you agree that it's a power issue like his parents say?

    Suggestions....

    1. When he poops on himself don't change him. Ignore the fact that he's done it. When he's not getting any attention over it, and it starts to get uncomfortable carrying it around all day, then maybe he will stop. Also, if mom and dad have to change him when he gets home, then maybe they will be more help to solve the problem.

    2. Make him clean himself. Tell him it's his poop and his body, so he's responsible for taking care of it himself. He can take off his own clothes, he can put his soiled pants in a bag, he can wipe himself clean with some wet wipes, and when his mom and dad pick him up suggest to them that has to hold the bag on the way home. When it becomes his problem, then maybe he'll change.

    3. Restrict his choices if he poops himself. "Sorry, you can't go to the block area with poop in your pants. You'll have to play at the puzzle table until you get cleaned up. I'm very busy right now, so I can't help you clean yourself up. I'll try to get back to you later."
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,116

    May 25, 2009

    EEEK- I taught PreK for one year and the potty issues could drive you mad...:dizzy: I had one kid ask me to push down his peanut for him...EEEEEKK!! I told his mother THAT day that we required children to be self-sufficient at toileting and that I was not going to put my license in jeopardy with such requests...:eek:

    If your school requires that 4 year olds be potty-trained, you might want to talk to your school director. This child seems to be doing this willfully (at least according to the parents) and is NOT potty trained...EEK. Maybe the parents could be advised to talk to their pediatrician? This is a BIG PROBLEM...


    If he's playing with his fecal matter, it WILL cause you sanitary/health issues in your room...Are you protecting yourself and the kids in your room from possible germs and disease that can be transmitted through fecal matter? :eek:


    Is this kid going to kindergarten next year??? EEEEEEKKKKK!!!
     
  5. Securis

    Securis Cohort

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 25, 2009

    My niece is going through something similar and by a doctor's thinking, she had a bad experience initially when potty training began. Who knows what happened or what subsequent steps reinforced the behavior. The sum total is that retraining is very hard to accomplish when you aren't sure what the provoking factors are.

    Equals neglect and is criminal.

    Reinforces the bad experience. You are expecting a 4 1/2 year old to understand and deal with this problem?

    Also negative and reinforces the bad experience.

    In my opinion, this is all very bad advice, career destroying advice. Since I'm not any kind of doctor or therapist, I'd seek professional medical help. Which is what my sister has been doing. Funny thing, it's working. I don't know specifics but a pediatrician of some strain would be the doctor I'd ask for advice.
     
  6. Muttling

    Muttling Devotee

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,095
    Likes Received:
    2

    May 25, 2009

    I'm secondary, but saw this headline and had to read....


    YEP...I'm glad I'm teaching high schoolers. My worst bowel problem has been the dainty little gal who would rip a silent but violent one. After half the class was gagging for air she'd say, "Excuse me" with a smirk.



    I had students asking me if we could put a cork up her butt. (I refuse to admit to the fact that I had discussed this option with other members of the faculty.)
     
  7. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 25, 2009

    Power struggle. Making him go around dirty is not going to have the desired outcome with a 4.5 year old. Making him clean himself isn't developmentally appropriate for his age. Making him carry around his excrement... well wasn't that JUST in the news recently? And not in a congratulations on the brilliant teaching strategy way, either.

    Don't power struggles usually mask the underlying issue of feeling powerless (e.g., "you can make me do x, y, and z, but you can't control my body functions!")?

    Psychological counseling/help for the family would probably do the most good.

    Sorry you're stuck with this problem.
     
  8. tiffharmon2001

    tiffharmon2001 Comrade

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 26, 2009

    I had a similar problem this year with a student-although he didn't play in it, he just refused to stop playing and go. The thing that finally worked for us was that I would call mom to come get him-thankfully she stayed home and could do it-and she would take him home and clean him up. He had to take a bath-which he didn't like to do-and get clean clothes on, then she would bring him back to school. We also made a big deal of praising him on the days that he didn't have an accident.

    On the days that I couldn't reach mom, I would take him up to the office bathroom, help him get undressed, and then have him clean himself up as well as he could. Then, I would help him finish the rest, which I was really uncomfortable with, but what do you do? After a while, he got pretty good at cleaning himself up.

    I also had a child one year who had a medical problem where he couldn't control it. The doctor said that he had held it in for so long that his muscles no longer were able to control it and it would just happen. We had issues with him "playing in it" also. His parents definitely need to take him to a doctor to rule out any medical problems.
     
  9. vannapk

    vannapk Groupie

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 26, 2009

    We're not allowed to change students or we put our professional licenses in jeopardy. We could be fired if we change a child or lose our teaching license. Perhaps it's different in private schools or child care settings, I don't know.

    In our district we take students like this to the nurse and she keeps them until the problem is resolved. Each nurse is different, some will make the child change himself, others will call the parents each and every time, but none will change the child. When the parents have to come up and change the child every single day they usually do something about it.

    I have no problem conferencing with the parent and giving them lots of information about the topic, checking out potty training videos from the library, giving them books on the topic, providing articles and websites etc. but ultimately it's the parent's job to potty train the child and my job to educate him.
     
  10. sarzacsmom

    sarzacsmom Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 26, 2009

    our center policy is that all our students that cme into preschool have to be 3 by the end of september AND be fully potty trained. They enter my room on a 30 day trial basis. If they are still not using the potty completely independently at the end of 30 days the parents are given 2 weeks notice that their child will have to leave the program. We do not have spaces available for them to return to the toddler program. the parents are made aware of this policy when they first enroll their child and are reminded periodically throughout the school year the last year they are in the toddler rooms--- the parents are required to sign a potty training agreement.
     
  11. mrgrinch09

    mrgrinch09 Comrade

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 26, 2009

    I should have prefaced my previous suggestions first by saying that if there was no developmental delay or medical reason for his behavior you could try those techniques.

    If there is a delay or medical reason for his behavior, then the parents should share that information with the teachers so they can determine how they want to deal with it. So, you need to rule out any delays or medical problems before you try anything new with the child.

    However, from the originals posters information, the parents believe that there is a power struggle going on with the child. Hence, he is fully capable of going through the day without pooping in his pants. He is just choosing not to.

    Try anyone of my suggestions for a week, and I'm certain you'll see improvement in his behavior. Before you do this make sure you let the parents and your boss/director what you plan to do, so that they can be on the same page as you. Trying something new would be useless if you don't get the backing of the parents and your boss first.
     
  12. TeacherShelly

    TeacherShelly Aficionado

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,565
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 26, 2009

    Just want to say, a power struggle does not necessarily mean he is willfully choosing not to do what he should. It is often a psychological defense mechanism - and "making" someone who is saying "you can't make me" usually just turns the problem underground.

    If the policy is "fully potty trained," then the kid can't come to school until his issue is resolved.
     
  13. emmakate218

    emmakate218 Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 26, 2009

    I don't really think is an issue that you can handle alone. Depending on what type of school you work in, talk with your principal or director and make sure you're following policy correctly.

    Whether the boy is pooping in his underwear intentionally or not, it's beyond innappropriate to let him carry it around all day. It's also a health and sanitation issue. If he's playing with it then he should probably be evaluated.
     
  14. Dzenna

    Dzenna Groupie

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 27, 2009

    You may want to pull your Director and Parent Handbook into this. Your job is to teach, not to potty train. A 4-year old classroom is not designed or staffed for potty training.

    It sounds like you and the parents came to no agreement at the conference. If the child does not meet the conditions for potty-trained and if you made recommendations the parents do not wish to follow then it is time to send the child home until he is potty-trained.

    The parents can deal with it however they choose: see a doctor, psychologist or they can keep the child home and wait until the "power play" is over. As teachers, we can give recommendations and referrals, but we cannot make parents follow them.
     
  15. tracykaliski

    tracykaliski Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    1

    May 27, 2009

    We had a child earlier this year who refused to use the toilet. She had just turned 3. And, our policy is that a child must be toilet trained.

    AFter a month of her pooping in her pants, we called the parents every time it happened and they had to come and get her. Turns out she was using pull ups at home and didn't know how to poop on the toilet. Once they had to come and get her, it stopped within a few weeks.

    I don't recommend anyone leaving a child with dirty pants all day long. It's not sanitary and it doesn't serve the child well.

    I hope you are able to find a solution to this. It sounds like this child needs some significant help.
     
  16. newprschteacher

    newprschteacher Rookie

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 27, 2009

    Thank you for your suggestions.
    I work at a private daycare where self help skills are strongly encouraged. So I keep on giving him wipes and supervise him while he cleans himself.
    I do not think that this child has any developmental delays as such. I feel that he is upset because he seems to be the first child to walk in as soon as the center opens and usually the last one to leave. The parents have their hands full with their elder child who is according to them ADHD and also has Bipolar Disorder.
    I suggested to the parents about his drop off and pick up times. They said they will consider it. In fact the mom said that they had faced a similar issue with their elder child before he was diagnosed. I have suggested that they take this child for evaluation. Hopefully something will come out of it.
    My heart goes out to this little child. I want to help him as well as myself!!! My school is not willing to set up a schedule of potty training with the parents.Their attitude is "yes we have to find a solution", as if the solution will appear out of the thin air.

    Thanks for listening to me.
     
  17. Whitchel

    Whitchel Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 28, 2009

    Hi I wanted to offer my experience. I used to own and direct a daycare center...I had this 5 year old child who would only poop in a pull up. His mother sent him to school with a backpack of pull ups and wipes. He would go in the bathroom and put on the pull up and do his business, then wanted to us to change him. We HELPED him change and clean him self. I always talked to him about if he could poop in that pull up he could poop in the potty...I talked and talked...until one day he pooped in the potty. I think I was more excited over him doing that then when my girls were potty trained. WE told mommy and that was it! He pooped in the potty from then on. I think with him he could control this one aspect of his life and he was going to. He was the smartest kid. This had nothing to do with him being delayed, he was from a divorced family and he had things that he couldn 't control, but this was one he could and get the attention from his mother that he wanted. This took probably a good month or two. But I just encouraged him and we talked about it.
    Just keep talking and encouraging with all the love you have in you, he will come around. GOOD LUCK!
     
  18. taryn_liz

    taryn_liz Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    0

    May 28, 2009

    I had a child at the beginning of this year that was an older 3. His mom informed us at the beginning of the year that he would only poop at home with a diaper on in the corner. And she let this go on, even after we talked about how it was not appropriate for him. The first time he pooped in our class, we were outside. He crouched down under the slide, just sat there for awhile, then came out and told us he pooped. When mom realized he could not come back because he wasn't fully potty trained, and he realized he missed playtime with his friends, he corrected the problem himself.
     
  19. gingerbread

    gingerbread Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 10, 2009

    Had a similar problem at our center. Finally told mom that if he in not potty trained befor pre k he will be put back in the two year old class and charged that rate. That got mom on the ball because she didn't want him not to move up with his peers.. Problem was solved in about two weeks. The 4 year old is now pooping on the toilet and has been for about 4 months now
     
  20. littlebear

    littlebear New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 15, 2009

    I fully agree with the fact that you are a teacher and not being paid to potty train. At our preschool the policy is: Any 3 & 4 year old MUST be fully potty trained in order to enter the 3 & 4 yr. programs. This is clearly stated in our enrollment form. First, you need to get with the director and find out what your policy is on being potty trained. If the policy states that all 4 yr. olds must be FULLY potty trained then there should not be a big struggle as to what to do. At our school the child would be dismissed from the program until he is fully potty trained. I hope you have a clear cut policy that has been given to the parents in advance. I also hope that your director takes over this matter. At this point it is the directors responsiblily.
    Good Luck!!
     
  21. Mrs.Sheila

    Mrs.Sheila Cohort

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 16, 2009

    I dont have much advice because I teach 3's, and it happens. But.... if this is a regular thing ` I would definately suggest pullups ~ dirty underwear like that ewwwww. Pullups would at least protect the clothing, but like I said, that is the only suggestion I have.
     
  22. rslucr

    rslucr New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 16, 2009

    4 1/2 year old pooping in class

    I totally agree with having this child seek professional help. A child of that age has either psychological or medical issues. During my time as a Child development Administrator, when this issue would arrise- (especially playing with poop- or spreading the poop on the walls :eek:hmy: ) our district counselors have recommended professional help. Sounds like both the child and parents need intervention.
     
  23. punchinello

    punchinello Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Likes Received:
    0

    Jul 16, 2009

    If it got me fired, I wouldn't be changing poopy pants. It's just not appropriate for a Pre-K class of older 4 year olds and 5 year olds. I wonder how it would be handled in a Kindergarten?

    My kids had to be completely potty trained before they were permitted to attend even a 3 year old nursery school program. I guess maybe day care situations are different. But if I wanted them to go to nursery school, I had to make sure they were able to potty themselves.

    I agree. There is something more going on here and the child needs to be evaluated.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

Total: 254 (members: 1, guests: 223, robots: 30)
test