12,000 NYC teacher evaluations to be made public

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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  3. StudentTeach

    StudentTeach Comrade

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    Jan 13, 2011

    How would "the public" feel if all of their work evaluations were released as public knowledge?? I can't believe they won't remove names, either. This is very disheartening.
     
  4. wcormode

    wcormode Rookie

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    Wow. I am not sure what to think I guess. I am not sure how the NY education system is.

    I can see both sides. On the Union side I say it is wrong. Evaluations are subjective and an administrator could say things out of spite or a teacher could have been stuck with the toughest students and been given no support. I think that parents with a vendetta will find things to go after teachers that their kids do not like.

    On the side of the courts I say that maybe this will make the lesser teachers pay more attention to how they handle their classes.

    But I dont think that teachers will be better if they have to look over their shoulders even more.
     
  5. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    I'm not sure what to think. I know I don't have anything to hide from my evaluations, but like another poster said, these evals are based on an admin who may/may not like the teacher they are evaluating. How is the public supposed to know which one is the case? What happens if a parent happens to see a teacher's eval, not like what they see, and decide to pull their child out based on that? I just don't think it's good practice to publize this information.
     
  6. JenniferVan1

    JenniferVan1 Rookie

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    Wow-that is incredible.....I for one, don't agree. I feel like it defeats the entire purpose of that evaluation. Evals are supposed to give me a personal benchmark on what I am doing well and in what areas I need to improve. If that was out for the entire world to see, I would feel more discouraged/embarrassed than anything else.
     
  7. Peachyness

    Peachyness Virtuoso

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    Two questions:

    So.... what is the point of doing this?

    What other careers releases confidential evaluations of their employees?
     
  8. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    My thoughts...

    a. How is this going to improve education?

    b. Will administrators' evaluations also be released?

    c. How did a person's confidential evaluation become public record?

    d. I honestly cannot believe there are people who actually want to be a teacher in New York City (sorry New Yorkers, I just don't understand).
     
  9. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Jan 13, 2011

    Seriously?
     
  10. mopar

    mopar Multitudinous

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    This just makes me think that it won't be long before all public school employees have their evaluations released to the public. It also makes me think about all the other government jobs out there. Do I have a right to view all of our town firefighters and police officer evaluations? What about the evaluations of the public works employees, IRS agents, etc? Are they opening up a door by saying these evaluations are public documents viewable by the freedom of information act....


    Just an FYI...apparently our school email accounts are also part of the freedom of information act or at least a screen shot of the inbox. Our superintendent is constantly asked for a screen shot of her inbox....
     
  11. smalltowngal

    smalltowngal Multitudinous

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    Alice, I think what kc meant was that with the massive budget cuts that have been rumored and then this, it seems to be a scary time to be a teacher in NY. Maybe?
     
  12. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Jan 13, 2011

    mopar,
    Duncan did say they he eventually wanted every US district to publish teachers' scores and evaluations. It's definitely going to happen everywhere.

    Reading some of the comments from the article they have an "off with their heads" mentality and want the lower ranked teachers fired already.

    This won't happen in other fields, public or private sector. Other fields are respected and the delicate intricacies & unique conditions of the jobs are taken into consideration from all levels.
     
  13. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Boo. :down:
     
  14. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    I really think they are just trying to identify where there are problems that can be fixed. If teachers are teaching with poor scores/evaluations-is that the best thing for students? I truly believe that's the reasoning behind it. And that does happen-we've had that conversation here before that often admin doesn't want to go through all the documentation involved to remove an ineffective teacher. Not agreeing with it, but answering what the why may be.

    My issue is that parents/the public may not understand the evaluations. We have a whole section determined by attendance of the students and the overall scores for the school-something I personally have no control over. Test scores in numbers alone are not always indicative of progress or effort. It may be viewed by the public incorrectly. We went through that with our merit pay. It's published literally with a search engine that says "look up your child's teacher and see if they are one of the good ones". Saying that the better teachers get better money. That's not always the truth-many teachers are ineligible because of what they teach. Our district fought in the courts allowing that information to be released as it's kind of an evaluation of sorts-we lost.
     
  15. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    Yep, I agree.
     
  16. holliday

    holliday Comrade

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    Jan 13, 2011

    While we're at it, I think the public "deserves" to see all student report cards (with names) AND documentation of parent involvement at school (or lack thereof).

    Why are WE always the only ones being held up for an insane level of scrutiny and judgment??
     
  17. Jem

    Jem Aficionado

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    I received a pre-evaluation write up this week that listed at least 15 items that I am doing in my classroom (I have documentation), but phrased them as if I wasn't doing them. When I refused to sign it, the director said they were suggestions on what to continue doing, even though it was clearly worded as if I wasn't doing them. She said I could always write a rebuttal. I still refused to sign it.

    What would happen in this case? Would they publish it anyhow? If I had signed it and written a rebuttal, would that be published as well? And there were the most ridiculous statements on there, such as 'do not keep your lunch in your classroom'. Hello? THAT'S on an evaluation? ANYTHING can be on an evaluation, I guess. But I'm guessing all the public will read is the first line -are they meeting expectations? (even ridiculous ones?)
     
  18. bandnerdtx

    bandnerdtx Aficionado

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    This is horribly demoralizing for these teachers. Not only are evaluations generally very subjective, they are also terribly isolated events. I think most of us have had a few bad days in the classroom. If you just happened to be evaluated on one of those days, it just seems like there's no hope for you. :(

    To me this just seems like another way to demonize public schools so that parents and communities don't have to take responsiblity for what their kids are doing.
     
  19. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Yes, seriously. Of course I knew you would see that statement, Alice, and probably be taken aback by it. But I'm being dead serious. It seems to me that every time I log on, there is some new law or mandate or proclamation or whatever that the city of New York is pressing on its teachers. I don't get how someone doesn't feel completely disregarded and berated as a professional.

    Is that a sweeping generalization of New York City? Yep. Sorry, but Caesar asked for my thoughts, and that was one. I know very well that there are very good thing happening in schools in New York and North Dakota and Texas and California and New Jersey and Pennsylvania and Maine and Ohio and Oregon, just as there are in Nebraska. But that still doesn't make me understand how it can feel good to work for a city that seems to be out to display all the faults of my fellow professionals.

    This is one midwesterner's perspective of a situation I have no experience with. Take that for what it is. I'm sure there are many, many people who think "Nebraska? Um, no thanks." That's ok, differences make the world go round. I know the things that make you love your school, and believe me, the same things make me love mine. I'm just curious how these teachers in the city feel that same love and commitment...

    I'm sorry, and I mean that sincerely, if I contributed to your being tired of AtoZ tonight.
     
  20. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Kcjo, teachers are under scrutiny everywhere, not just NYC. You don't have to want to teach in NYC, or even believe that there are teachers who want to, but there are MANY. NYC is an amazing, energizing place to live and work for millions of people.
    Even under pressure and scrutiny, many professional educators feel a "love and commitment" to their students and this profession, whether they be in NYC or Nebraska, or thousands of other places. Please respect that commitment, even if you "just don't understand it".
     
  21. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    I know all that. Why would you say that I do not "respect that commitment"? How is not understanding something being disrespectful?

    Or is it more that my opinion, my perspective, does not agree with yours? That's not disrespect, that's difference.

    I cannot tell you how many people have told me that they would NEVER live in Nebraska. They couldn't understand how I would want to either. Whatever, to each his own. I certainly have my reasons, as I know people all over the country have their own reasons.

    Whatever. I'm sorry I ventured to put my opinion out there.
     
  22. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    For what it's worth, I understood your comment and fail to find it disrespectful.
     
  23. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Thank you.
     
  24. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    I agree with JustMe's sentiment as well.
     
  25. kcjo13

    kcjo13 Phenom

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    Thank you as well!
     
  26. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    No one said anything about being disrespectful. I just asked that teachers' commitment be respected...regardless of the zip code of where they choose to work. Teachers are under attack everywhere...experienced excellent tenured teachers are losing their jobs as states tighten their belts, pensions are under attack, entire content areas are being scaled way back...everywhere. NYC is one HUGE school district so what happens in the city IS the news...but whats happening is not unique to NYC.
     
  27. monsieurteacher

    monsieurteacher Aficionado

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    I would disagree:

    (emphasis mine)

    The insinuation you made that kcjo was not "respecting" the commitment was very clear to me.
     
  28. TeacherApr

    TeacherApr Groupie

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    So against this!

    First off, there is jargon that the regular public won't understand. Second, it can be easily taken out of context. Third, isn't this violating the right to privacy?!
     
  29. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Mosieur, For what reason are you continuing this? I understand that the original comment about not understanding NYC teachers was not meant in a derogatory sense...but neither were my comments. Teachers are under attack everywhere. My comments were seeking to clarify that and to reinforce the idea that teachers in urban, suburban, rural, what have you kinds of districts ARE committed to their profession and to their students. Nothing else.
     
  30. TeacherApr

    TeacherApr Groupie

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    LOVE THIS!!!!!
     
  31. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I may have missed this, but what is the goal exactly? If they want to rid the system of ineffective teachers, how is publishing this information going to work towards that? Is there hope that parents will rally upon reading the evaluations and that that may move those in power to release ineffective teachers?
     
  32. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Unfortunately, students' grades would be used as a measure of teacher quality, I fear, not of students' commitment and energies toward their work.:huh:
     
  33. JustMe

    JustMe Virtuoso

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    I agree...it would simply serve as additional evidence the teacher is failing to meet the needs of those students.
     
  34. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    It usually comes down to funding. A lot of the talk about publicizing teacher evaluations and measuring teacher effectiveness comes from ESEA...there will be federal and state funding implications as a result...just wait.
    http://education-legislation.blogspot.com/2011/01/value-added-modeling-for-teacher.html
     
  35. G00d d00bie

    G00d d00bie Rookie

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    Seems like a big step to take and I suspect there are some intermediate alternatives.
     
  36. SunnyReader

    SunnyReader Companion

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    As a NYC teacher, i think it is horrible. The issue is that readers will not know what type of class you have. Obviously the honors classes are going to get great reports and the lower level classes will have less than great reports. As a special education teacher, my students will be taking the state tests. I would be more than thrilled if half of my class received a 2. I do not believe that any will get a 3 or 4. But 2's would be a success. When you see my scores of 1's and 2's, you (as the reader) are going to think I am a horrible teacher.

    Also, how are they art/PE/tech/etc. teachers being evaluated?

    and for whatever poster said " Why would anyone teach in NYC?" I agree with you when you wrote "Nebraska, UGH! never". To each its own. I am a city girl and could NEVER live in Nebraska. (and probably vice versa)
     
  37. tortega

    tortega Rookie

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    If they were going to assess doctors the same way. (one sided view of patient outcomes) We would see a lot of cancer and aids specialists moving into dermatology.
     

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