When the "good kid" has had enough

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Backroads, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    1,246

    Jan 10, 2018

    A popular behavior management strategy is sitting the misbehaving kids next to a model student in hopes of some of that model student-ness rubbing off.

    One of my model students yesterday came to me and ask to have her seat changed. She has been sitting next to a wiggly, noisy student for a grand total of three days and she has had it. Now, wiggly, noisy student likely has severe learning and developmental disabilities--he does have a second spot apart from the other students when he acts up and is unable to calm down, so it's not like she is forced to always sit by him. But, as she said, the kid is driving her nuts.

    Would it be so wrong to move her seat or is this to be a learning experience for her too?
     
  2.  
  3. miss-m

    miss-m Habitué

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2014
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    391

    Jan 10, 2018

    No. I think this behavior management strategy is more for students who choose to misbehave, not necessarily for students who have learning or developmental disabilities that may prevent them from behaving well even if they want to.

    Move your model student so she can keep enjoying school; eventually it could be a learning experience, but if she has the self-awareness to ask to be moved, it's better than leaving her until she snaps at this other student.
     
  4. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    522

    Jan 10, 2018

    Please don’t teach to the least able. Hold every student to the same high standards. A student shouldn’t suffer just to benefit someone else.
     
    Bioguru and Backroads like this.
  5. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,874
    Likes Received:
    297

    Jan 10, 2018

    She is there to learn. She isn't there to teach the others how to behave.
    Did you move the model student next to the other student or vice versa? If you moved model student, move her back to her original spot. If you moved other student, find a new place for them. My daughter doesn't like it when the trouble makers get moved by her.
     
  6. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    2,438

    Jan 10, 2018

    I feel very strongly that students shouldn't be forced to fix their peers' problems at school. If they want to help, that's fantastic. It's really unfair to mandate that, though.
     
  7. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    1,246

    Jan 10, 2018

    Honestly, I didn't think of her as any particularly example. My classroom has tables. My general plan is simply two boys and two girls per table.

    I move the misbehaving student to another place when he starts getting antsy and noisy as part of my general management policy of you don't get to sit with the rest of the class in order to keep the rest of the class from being distracted. Then I add notes to my collection on this particular kid.

    I shall spy out another place for her to sit today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  8. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    1,246

    Jan 10, 2018

    I have seen it recommended multiple times for disabilities, though. Not really as behavior management, but literally as a model to help the student with the disability see what is typical.
     
    2ndTimeAround likes this.
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,439
    Likes Received:
    2,438

    Jan 10, 2018

    I've also seen this recommendation. I hate it, though.

    I'll add that my own kid is a "typical peer" in a program where most of the students are at-risk and/or ELLs. As a typical peer, my kid doesn't have to do anything except do the things that any kid at that age would normally do at school. I'm totally okay with that. My kid doesn't assume the role of teacher, translator, or behavior interventionist.
     
    Backroads and futuremathsprof like this.
  10. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Devotee

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    677

    Jan 10, 2018

    I would let them pick their seats, and see where they land. I'm guessing this is not for high school though, so it may be a different story in your world.
     
    Backroads likes this.
  11. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    1,246

    Jan 10, 2018

    My gosh, I hate the "little teacher" thing people recommend.

    I don't have a problem with the general concept of a typical kid behaving well and perhaps pointing out said kid as an example, but that should not be the kid's duty.

    It may have been here or elsewhere, but it was a discussion about a kid prone to meltdowns and running. Some poster said her child (it must have been elsewhere) was a good friend of RunnerKid and was usually sent down to retrieve the child "so the teachers/staff wouldn't get hurt". I think every other poster was questioning this mother on her feelings of letting her kid walk into danger.
     
    Caesar753 likes this.
  12. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Habitué

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    247

    Jan 10, 2018

    In my classes, we have about four students with some major behavioral issues. My mentor usually puts these students together and she will not place a "good" student with one of them. I sometimes wish these students had the chance to work with other students and maybe they would rise to the occasion, but I also feel that it would not be fair to other students. She often pulls these students and takes them to another room during class while the aide and I stay with the rest of the class (or sends the aide with them). I'm still trying to figure out what I would handle this in the classroom to make it fair for both students.

    If the student asked to be moved, I would probably move her. This seems like a difficult situation.
     
  13. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,220
    Likes Received:
    482

    Jan 13, 2018


    Yep, many of my SPED students have it mandated that they 'sit where there are no distractions." Yet they are distractions themselves. So I have to scatter them out around the classroom, sitting next to the 'good' kids to be legal.

    Once I placed such a child by himself at a desk away from the crowd. Then I was told to move him because I was isolating him due to his disability.

    I had one particular class from hell. Half of the kids were "bad", about a 1/4 easily influenced and 1/4 "good." The good couldn't get what they needed because of the others. I tried separating the good so they could work together and was told to mix everyone up because almost all of the "bad" kids were black and I was segregating my classroom (even though some of the "good" were black as well).
     
  14. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,220
    Likes Received:
    482

    Jan 13, 2018


    I worked at a school once where a little five year old was pimped out to an autistic classmate. He liked to play with her curls and she had to endure it else he would have a meltdown and destroy the classroom.
     
  15. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    522

    Jan 13, 2018

    Only in America. This is why I group students by ability in all my classes. Complete and utter nonsense, not to mention unfair to that little girl. Poor thing is probably traumatized by her experience in that class. And the kid who constantly played with her hair sounds like a pervert in the making.
     
  16. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Devotee

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    677

    Jan 13, 2018

    Do you notice a direct correlation between behavior and ability?
     
  17. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    522

    Jan 13, 2018

    Yes, actually, my colleagues and I have noticed that students who are low to low-medium performers tend to exhibit the worse behaviors. This trend repeats year after year. I’ve noticed it for four years and this my fourth year teaching. My more seasoned colleagues have noticed it for decades. Coincidence? I think not.

    Edit: I would venture to say there is a moderately strong to strong positive correlation between student behavior and ability.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  18. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,220
    Likes Received:
    482

    Jan 13, 2018

    definitely a positive correlation.

    I've heard several people say that students exhibit poor behavior as a coping mechanism for their lower abilities. That's the easy, PC way to approach the problem. I propose that many of these students who are low performers and poorly behaved, have unfortunately been dealt a doubly bad hand. They are born into a family/culture/neighborhood where education is not respected. Probably because the parents/grandparents/neighbors were unable to be as successful as some of their peers and failure is an expectation. Most of these children were behavior problems way back in preschool so we cannot blame lack of self-esteem or fear of failure.

    I have noticed that students with lower abilities that are in families of average or above average abilities are seldom the behavior problems. And students that are above average in ability yet come from a family not as gifted as they are and where siblings often get into trouble, get into trouble themselves.
     
  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    522

    Jan 13, 2018

    True. I’m sure there are exceptions on both sides of the spectrum. However, the vast majority of students who misbehave and underachieve are the aforementioned students from my previous post.
     
  20. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Devotee

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    677

    Jan 13, 2018

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but how do you know of the abilities of family members?
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  21. 2ndTimeAround

    2ndTimeAround Phenom

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,220
    Likes Received:
    482

    Jan 13, 2018

    A few ways: when the siblings are/were students in the school, sometimes even because the parents were students at the school themselves and are remembered by staff members. Usually it is when the case managers share with us the family history and when you have multiple meetings with the parents.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

Total: 289 (members: 1, guests: 263, robots: 25)
test