What can be negotiated?

Discussion in 'General Education' started by ku_alum, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. ku_alum

    ku_alum Aficionado

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    Apr 8, 2014

    It may vary by district or by state, but ...

    If your district allows your teacher organization to bargain the contract, does anyone know where I can find a list of things that can be negotiated ...
    - salary increases
    - duty days
    - personal days
    - what about "smaller" things like teacher dress code?
     
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  3. giraffe326

    giraffe326 Virtuoso

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    I know in North Carolina, your first three cannot be negotiated. You are at will and pay is state mandated.
    Things like dress code are up to individual principals, so maybe...

    In Michigan, I doubt there is a lot of room for negotiation since they frequently get thousands of applicants per position. In my 2 Michigan offers, I've been too afraid to try to negotiate!
     
  4. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    The first three tend to be contract items in districts near me..ldress code tends to be under board policy kinds of concerns.
     
  5. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    I can't negotiate anything because the union in my corporation thinks they somehow have the right to negotiate on my behalf despite the fact that I don't belong to the organization.

    It's shameful.
     
  6. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Aficionado

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    I live in a non-union state. I can't negotiate any of those things. I consider it more shameful that unions aren't allowed here, since a union would likely help protect elementary teachers from having total unencumbered weekly planning time of an hour or less, but that's just me.
     
  7. comaba

    comaba Cohort

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    It does vary by state. Some states have legislated those things that are not open to negotiation. Try googling your state's statutes on teacher negotiations.
     
  8. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Of course you do.

    And, of course, you can negotiate planning time into your own contract if you have that leverage.
     
  9. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Aficionado

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    Um... no, I don't. My contract is "take it or leave it." There's no negotiation available whatsoever. I can tell you the exact salary of any person working within my district, and so could any other person who decided to peruse the HR department page on my district webpage.

    I'm not sure what magical utopia you think takes place when unions are ousted, but it doesn't work the way you seem to believe it does.
     
  10. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    I have no problem with unions existing (though public unions pumping money into elections so they can negotiate "with" their cronies is completely inappropriate).

    I do have a problem with unions requiring that they be the sole negotiating party for labor; that's inappropriate and antithetical to a competitive marketplace.

    You seem to believe that people never negotiate the terms of their employment without a rent-seeking party (union leadership) between themselves and management.

    Amazing how 90% of the United States labor force seems to function without that buffer.
     
  11. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Aficionado

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    90% of the workforce exists without that buffer, but most people also don't negotiate their salary. I have worked in one form or another for 16 years. I was a member of a union for ten months of that year. I've never had the opportunity to negotiate my salary. The closest I've ever come is pointing out to my supervisor that I missed the typical three-month salary increase because I only worked a month or two at a time due to college.
     
  12. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Aficionado

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    And for what its worth, few if any public employees get to negotiate their salaries. Private school teachers might get the opportunity to negotiate their salaries, but they also generally make significantly less than their public school counterparts.
     
  13. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    You're going to have to go ahead and provide support for the statement that "most people don't negotiate their salary." Your anecdotal experience isn't going to suffice here, especially since I've read dozens of articles on the art of negotiating compensation over my time as a professional in various fields.
     
  14. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    Turns out you're wrong:

    "Just more than 18 percent---nearly one-fifth---of people we surveyed never negotiate their salaries. Ever. Which is surprising considering studies have shown an individual who fails to negotiate a first salary stands to miss out on more than $500,000 by age 60."

    http://www.salary.com/most-people-don-t-negotiate-due-to-fear-lack-of-skills/slide/2/

    Looks like not being able to negotiate one's market rate leads us to make significantly less than we would otherwise. I'll say once again: let me negotiate my own compensation. I know how to do it, I know the value I bring to my organization, and I don't need some rent-seeking loudmouth taking part of my compensation to do something I didn't give them permission to do in the first place.
     
  15. Go Blue!

    Go Blue! Connoisseur

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    The Union here negotiates all 4 of these things and I am MORE than happy with their hard work. Last month, in our new contract, they negotiated annual raises on top of our step increases, we have no dutys in my district, we can cash out sick days for an annual "bonus" and we have no real dress code that Admin can enforce.

    Like I always say when we talk about Unions; I would NEVER set foot in a classroom in my district without the Union behind me. Pretty much everyone I've talked to in my district agrees with this sentiment, even if they have other issues with the Union negotiated contract.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  16. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    I make significantly more than my board would love to pay a third grade teacher. I make more than most third grade teachers in my state...heck more than most teachers period. I have a combination of experience, education, district demographics and yes, MY UNION, to thank for that.
     
  17. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    If you wouldn't make what you make without a union, the union is artificially increasing the price of labor or you don't know how to negotiate.

    That's fine. You don't trust your ability to articulate your value to your organization, so you're going to pay someone your raise in the form of dues to do it for you. Stop forcing other people to participate in that farce, however. It's immoral.
     
  18. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Aficionado

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    Explain the fact that salary scales exist in non-union states.
     
  19. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    Let me know when you're making 100 k...then we'll talk.

    I'm worth every darn penny.
     
  20. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    I'd like you to go back and explain how "most people" = 18% first.
     
  21. Honest_Teacher

    Honest_Teacher Comrade

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    If that is true, then I'm sure your employer sees it the same way and would have no problem compensating you at your current level. Why do you need a union then?
     
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