Time out in or outside the classroom?

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by Pashtun, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Nov 8, 2015

    What is a principal support call? Where you actually call the principal to come to your class to help with an unruly student?

    For the call home, do you do this or do you have the student do it? Or is it after class? Is the call home in leiu of the letter home? or do you replace the letter home with a phone call?
     
  2. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Nov 8, 2015

    Haven't read all posts in great detail, but wanted to chime in regarding the OP - I use what's a called a stepwise time out procedure. This involves multiple steps of time out that actually have multiple behavioral strategies folded in to it, and involves both in and out of classroom TO.

    In short, there are multiple steps (hence in the name) that a child would move through based on compliance with each prior step. Step 1 is that a child would be sent out of the group activity, but within the room. If the child stays for a few minutes then decides to make a good choice, s/he is allowed to return with no additional consequence. If the child doesn't complete step 1, s/he moves to step 2 - physically moves to standing next to door. For every minute the child spends in step 2 (and above), s/he must pay back with a minute of free time later on. The incentivizes the child to complete lower steps of time out more effectively, and attaches an additional consequence to removal from class. If the child fails to complete step 2, s/he moves to step 3 (serving TO in another classroom). If not completely correctly, the child moves to step 4 (serving TO in admin office). Once a child decides to make a good choice, the time clock (of payback) stops, and the child has to move back down through each step. The child then can rejoin the group if s/he can let the teacher know what the good choice would be.

    This is the short version of it, with additional procedures & steps involved before & during, and also relies on other systems being in place (e.g., social problem-solving/social thinking process, social skills training, admin support, etc.). But, I at least wanted to provide a short description to get across the point that it doesn't have to be either/or.
     
  3. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Nov 8, 2015

    Yes. The principal comes to your class and depending on the situation, either sits with the student as they work, has a chat with the student, or pulls the student out entirely. It keeps them from missing class time and sends the message that the teachers have the full support of the principal.

    I used to do letters home. They never got home. It just didn't work for me (even though Michael Linsin recommends it). I now do what our PE department taught me.

    You have the kid go to the phone and dial their parents themselves. They explain exactly what they did wrong and why they are having to call. Then they pass the phone onto you where you can fill in any details (in case the student wasn't fully forthcoming) and suggest a consequence to the parents (I usually say, "Do you think a lunch detention would be an appropriate consequence?". The answer is always "Yes" or even "I think 3 lunch detentions would be better.")

    This is so much more powerful than me just calling home or leaving a letter. I've had parents tell me that they had no idea how rude and disrespectful their kid was being until they heard their tone of voice on the phone when they were explaining what they did to break the rules, and didn't really believe me when I just sent emails or left voicemails. It works great.

    I really have to do this once or twice, even with my worst offenders. Kids HATE it. It's one thing when you call yourself as a teacher and the kid doesn't really feel the consequence until later. It's another that they're receiving a parent lecture, right there in class, immediately after the behavior, and the rest of the class is watching them being cut down by their parents. (I don't stop class though. I keep on teaching or they keep doing their activities, but I only have one phone at the very front of the class so it's very obvious)
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  4. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Nov 9, 2015

    @EdEd
    Yeah, I have and at times do use both. I was curious about in class time-outs while during independent work. My experience is that it is not nearly as effective as out of class time-outs during these types of activities.

    @Peregrin, I like the idea of having the student call home and can see this being much more effective than the note home....I may have to try this.
     
  5. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Nov 9, 2015

    I like this method. I've used something similar.

    Where do you get the free time that students must pay back? Are you talk about time after class or something built in to your class?
     
  6. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Nov 9, 2015

    I definitely think that each classroom is different and you'll need to tweak any strategy based on your school, particular classroom management style, etc. In terms of in vs. out, I'd highlight that it's not an either/or for me, but "both at the same time" - sequentially.
     
  7. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Nov 9, 2015

    I'm in a non-traditional setting so I have a bit more flexibility. Certainly it can be hard for teachers that have every minute spoken for with non-negotiable instruction.

    One creative concept for "free time" would be to not actually use play time or truly free time, but different types of instruction that may be more or less preferable. So, maybe for the last 20 minutes of the day students can choose between 3 different types of academic activities, but that time is "lost" during time out, and replaced by teacher-selected activities (obviously less preferable ones).

    Still, rather than time it could be that every minute spent in time out results in a point lost in a token economy, or something else. The bottom line for me is to "audit" preferable things you have in class, and turn them into earnables.
     
  8. Rox

    Rox Cohort

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    Nov 9, 2015

    I was a member of the jury who determined the fate of her appeal. I know exactly what she was fired for. She left a student unsupervised outside of the classroom for a time out. Granted, she was overall a poor teacher, based on testimony from co-workers, but a large part of the trial focused on that specific event. LAUSD and other districts have policies against time outs, but many are not aware of them. California's laws are vague, but adequate supervision must be provided during a time out. I guess the word "adequate" would be left up to interpretation.
     
  9. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Yes, what you are describing makes perfect sense as to why she was fired. sounds like she was fired for leaving students unsupervised, not timed out. If she had sent the students out of the room to work on an assignment unsupervised, she would still have been fired, no?

    I guess I am not seeing the issue with time-outs, I am seeing an issue with a teacher's judgment about leaving students unsupervised, very very different than a student being timed out in another classroom, fully supervised.

    LAUSD has a policy against in classroom and out of classroom timeouts? You are not allowed to send a student to another classroom in this manner? You are not allowed to have an in classroom timeout in LAUSD?

    EDIT: With regards to this you may be right, I now vaguely remember LAUSD has some wierd, failing, no suspension, bizaare experiment on student behavior discipline.
     
  10. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Nov 9, 2015

    This document (granted I don't know if it's out of date or note) seems to say that time-outs are an appropriate consequence, so I don't think that's what Rox is saying. http://www.utla.net/system/files/2007-04-25_discipline_foundation_policy.pdf

    It's probably just that a student can't be sent out of the classroom for a time-out while unsupervised, meaning a campus supervisor or someone would have to accompany the student to the other classroom.
     
  11. EdEd

    EdEd Aficionado

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    Nov 9, 2015

    All punishments have side effects, or the potential for side effects at least. Rewards actually do to. It's more of a matter of knowing the potential limitations, and making an informed decision, unless of course you have regulations/policies that state otherwise.
     
  12. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Nov 9, 2015

    Agreed, and in this case it sounds like the time out was not in another room, but unsupervised outside of the class room, like on a wall outside the class with the door closed. Huge no no.
     

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