Time out in or outside the classroom?

Discussion in 'Elementary Education' started by Pashtun, Nov 1, 2015.

  1. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Nov 1, 2015

    This is a quote from the smart classroom management by Michael Linsin.

    "For time-out to be effective, your students must feel like they’re missing something. When you send them out of your classroom this feeling is minimized because they’re unable to see what they’re no longer part of.

    Time-out, then, feels more like a break and less like a consequence.

    As long as your students enjoy your classroom—which is a core principle of Smart Classroom Management—being separated from their classmates while still in class is a strong disincentive to misbehave in the future."

    I am curious on thoughts from other teachers with regards to time-outs.

    How does this work in your room?
    How does this work during independent work? Independent reading? Whole class intruction..etc.
    Why do your students feel they are missing something "more" when behaviour happens during these types of activities? I understand group activities, games...etc., inquiring about more independent type work activities.
     
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  3. czacza

    czacza Multitudinous

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    So in my class a student might need to not be part of a group cooperative activity and do the activity on his/her own instead. Or instead of sitting on the aspect with classmates, a student may have to sit at their own seat. students might miss some time outside at recess, but that tends to be for recess related issues...I believe consequences shoukd be related, reasonable and relevant....
     
  4. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    I do time out as described in the original post. They are expected to sit aside from the group but still listen and complete the assignment. I do not call on them to answer questions or participate in discussions, and if kids do partner work they work alone.
     
  5. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Also, I support in-room timeout. Kids who aren't focusing when sitting with the group usually listen better and work more diligently when in time out, so they still learn the content.
     
  6. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    My question though is how is this more effective than outside the classroom whith regards to more independent work or direct instruction. I personally see no consequence or improved reflection having to sit in a different location, yet continue with the same independent work type activity.

    I am not referring to a student being removed from a group activity, class game, socratic dialogue..etc.
     
  7. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    Nov 1, 2015

    Time-out, then, feels more like a break and less like a consequence.

    This sentence from above describes it for me. It is a consequence but not a punishment. It is me saying, I have given you a chance to make good choices but it's still not happening. Now, I am going to make a choice for you to help you focus.

    It is consistently the same kids, but the testament that it works (for me) is that they do not continue to misbehave after they're moved usually. The talking or calling out stops, and we can all continue the lesson.

    Plus, if it were a similarly used consequence but kids were leaving the classroom regularly, that would be so much missed classtime. Yes, you can send work, but a lot of times the kid wasn't listening during instruction and they don't know how to do the work.
     
  8. Tasha

    Tasha Phenom

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    Nov 1, 2015

    Love and logic uses a technique called recovery time, not a punishment, but an opportunity for the child to het himself back together in order to join the group. I use in/out of class timeout differently, depending on the behavior and child. Behavior techniques are to be used like a menu. What technique fits the child, circumstances, and your teacher personality/class management.
     
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  9. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    So it is not really changing the behaviour?

    According to Linsin, it is the joy of being part of the class that makes this time out, reflective and effective. The student does not want to be removed from class, yet I do not see how this really works when doing independent type activities.

    I personally find sending students to another classroom is more effective. Students do not always know when we are watching a short you tube clip, playing a "laugh track or sound track"..etc. Students do not want to leave the room, knoowing there is a possibility they may miss this, staying in the classroom, which I have tried, I have witnessed students enjoying these aspects of class, while just sitting at a different seat.

    Maybe I am missing something otterpop, maybe I am being mean? when I have done in class time-outs, they are isolated, so the side talking and focus does stop in the short term, but I don't see them reflecting. However, I have consistently seen, utter dissappointment in students having to leave the room, as in tears welling up, pleading not to leave. I have never seen this with in class isolation during independent type activities.

    I do agree, that some instruction is lost.
     
  10. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

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    In my lower elementary grade we do so much group and partner work that an in-class time-out is quite sufficient a consequence. I also have a kid who is simply calmer when he sits by himself--time put works a little differently for him.

    But, yes, classes where it's much independent work anyway... there isn't much to changing spots.
     
  11. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    Agreed, this is making me think, as Tasha already stated, that the time-out location, depends on the situation and the student involved.
     
  12. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    I don't think this is mean, but I do think that it could damage your relationship with the kid. This isn't necessarily bad, but a big part of Linsin's program (as I understand it) is relationship-based and showing them you care. Banishing them from the classroom doesn't really do that. It shows you don't want them around. Of course, this isn't really the message you intend to send, but nonetheless some of the difficult kids will read it this way.

    I know some teachers who put kids in "islands" where they're not around anyone else. I really only have one kid (out of my multiple classes) who is consistently in time out, but it's a kid that I should probably have just sitting on their own anyway.

    Also, time out is only the middle of my consequence chain, so if they don't behave there or after that, there is an additional repercussion.
     
  13. agdamity

    agdamity Fanatic

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    During independent reading, my students get to spread out around the room, sit in comfy chairs or rolling chairs, move be a friend, etc. If they have time out during this time, they have to sit at their seat. Even the thought they might not get to spread out is enough to deter most of them from being off track.
     
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  14. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    I very rarely use out of class time-outs. In the event that I do use them, it's not so much because I think it will change their behavior as it is that I (and their classmates) need a ten minute break from whatever they are doing.
     
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  15. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I'm not sure "banishing them from the classroom" shows you don't care, not sure how you come to that conclusion. It certainly is not one of Linsin's reasons against it. However, I do think we are in agreement that time out out of the classroom is stronger than sitting in a different spot within the classroom.
     
  16. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I agree with this, anecdotally, I do see it having a stronger impact on future behavior than in class time-outs, especially during independent activities.

    I will add, that I also rarely use out of classroom timeouts as well.
     
  17. Pashtun

    Pashtun Fanatic

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    I see this being effective. Do you have a similar routine for math practice, writing, comprehension work?
     
  18. Pashtun

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    Is it the note home to the parent or do you have a different 3rd consequence?
     
  19. 49erteacher

    49erteacher Rookie

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    Nov 2, 2015

    This is how I use out of the class time out. There is one student who causes disruption during the day. I will occasionally send him to one other class if I feel that we need a break.

    I use in class time out mostly when the students are on the carpet and we are doing something that is a unifying activity (number talks or a read aloud, for example).

    For independent work, I use other consequences.
     
  20. Peregrin5

    Peregrin5 Maven

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    Hi Pashtun. I didn't read all of the responses, but your OP is how it works in my class. In-class time-out has multiple benefits. Not only do they see what they're missing out on, but they don't miss instruction, and they're not bothering another teacher.

    If we're just doing independent work (in my class, though, even my independent work involves pausing and conferring with neighbors, now and then) then no, it may not seem like they're missing out on much. But they really are. For one thing, you're removing them from the cause of their disturbance, which is the desire to talk to other classmates. Two, they do miss the physical presence of being a part of their group. Three, they are not called upon or treated as a member of the class if they are sitting at the focus table. This further gives them a sense of separation (including the physical separation).

    Is it going to be the be-all-end-all of consequences that will finally change the behavior of that one kid? Probably not, but if you leave them there long enough (sometimes I leave them there the entire period) they'll eventually miss being a part of the class. I only let them back once they've missed a few fun activities and seem genuinely remorseful (minimum amount of a time: 15 minutes).
     
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  21. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    I must begin with a humorous memory this brought back to me. When I was in fourth grade, the teacher was out of the room. I was behaving (honestly) but the girl sitting next to me tried to whisper to me. I ignored her (probably because I was a fourth grade boy who ignored girls) but just then the teacher walked in and sent both of us out to stand in the hallway for talking. I was so humiliated when other classes walked by, and to make sure those students knew I was innocent, I would quietly point to the girl who did all the talking.

    On a more serious note, I've taught in schools where various time outs were forbidden; in one school, standing in the hallway was considered dangerous. In another school, for about 4 years, missing any amount of recess was considered anti-productive. Other than that, I would agree, it depends on the situation and the student. For me, the most effective actions are to disrupt the disruption. I preferred quietly moving the student to the back of the room to whisper with me concerning the situation and applying consistent consequences as needed. If this was during direct instruction time, moving the student usually stopped the immediate problem and conferring with the student helped the student and I work out a plan to avoid the disruption in the future. But again, there are students who seem to continually have difficulties. I see myself as a team partner to assist the student in behaving appropriately to achieve the best of his/her potential. I must admit, I hadn't always been perfect with management, since I've grown as a teacher in this area throughout my career, but I've had much success with continually discussing with the student on how s/he is improving with the behavior in question. I've especially had success with giving the student a cute physical reminder such as a popsicle stick with a smiley face for a good day or week, a round wooden token with "TUIT" written on it to keep in the desk as a reminder of what's expected (for "I will behave when I get around to it / a round tuit"), etc. I tell the students at the beginning of the year, if they have difficulty with any of the rules, to let me know; I have all kinds of ideas to help them. (Students have told me several times that one of their biggest fears is "forgetting" to follow a rule).
     

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