Teachers, what are your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out' started by futuremathsprof, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    882

    Sep 25, 2018

    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/flo...l-credit-assignment-didnt-turn-215918726.html

    This is becoming more and more commonplace and it is very concerning to me. The fact that a school has a no-zero policy in the first place is absurd and immeasurably stupid. If a student does nothing, then they should get absolutely nothing in return. Cause and effect. If they have to repeat a grade, then so be it. That’s their fault and they should have studied.
     
  2.  
  3. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    This is so pathetic and sad.
    I guess it's the same as signing up for little league, not going to any practices or games and then expecting a trophy at the end?
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  4. Lisabobisa

    Lisabobisa Companion

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    36

    Sep 26, 2018

    A student does an assignment and gets a 100%. Average = 100% A grade. Then they do another assignment and get a 70% (C). Average = 85% B grade. Then they fail to turn in an an assignment, and get a 0. Average = 57% D grade. The student went from a B average to a D average with one assignment? Add another 0. Average = 43% F grade. Add another assignment of 70%. Average = 48% Still an F. Say they score an 80% (B) on that assignment. Average = 50%... still an F.

    So the student complete 3/5 assignments. What percent is that? 60%. But their grade is still at 50%? Even if they get a 100 on that fifth assignment, the average is still 54% which is STILL an F. But they did 60% of the assigned work.

    Now lets try it with the no zero policy.
    Assignment 1 - 100%
    Assignment 2 - 70%
    Assignment 3 - did not hand in 50%
    Assignment 4 - did not hand in 50%
    Assignment 5 - 70%
    Average = 68%
    (Based on this example, this student is probably a C average student, so that 68% better matches that, as well as the 60% Average of 3/5 assignments completed).

    Why does this make a difference? It's easier to come back from a 68% than from a 54%. I worked with students with emotional disabilities and one of the biggest issues they had was turning in work. I'm thinking of one student who was perfectly capable of completing work with a B average but because he didn't hand work in, his grades were in the low 30s and high 20s. When I worked with him to complete his work (including teaching him organizational skills to do this independently) he straight up told me "what's the point, I'm going to fail anyway."

    Someone had the idea of a 5 point scale instead of percentages.
    So in my previous example:
    Assignment 1- 5 (A)
    Assignment 2 - 3 (C)
    Assignment 3 - 1 (F)
    Assignment 4 - 1 (F)
    Assignment 5 - 3 (C)
    Average - 2.6 (D)

    Just because we have always done something one way doesn't mean we have to always do it that way. There are alternatives.....
     
  5. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,970
    Likes Received:
    361

    Sep 26, 2018

    If and when these coddled kids go to college, the professors will give a big fat ZERO and not a 50% for being alive. Talk about welcome to the real world.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  6. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    I think the real question is why is this stuff not being handed in?
     
    Backroads and futuremathsprof like this.
  7. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    Yes, and then they will have to pay extra $$ to retake the class. They won't like that!!!
     
    SpecialPreskoo likes this.
  8. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    Another thing that will happen is a student will just pick and choose which assignments he/she wants to complete because they KNOW they can't get a zero.
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  9. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Sep 26, 2018

    Just a heads-up: apparently there were other issues going on, not just that, that led to the firing.

    Related to the main topic though, this is why I enjoy standards-based grading! There's no worry about a policy like this ever coming into or out of play.
     
  10. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    882

    Sep 26, 2018

    Yep, a participation trophy. Yay...
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    882

    Sep 26, 2018

    Absolutely this!!!
     
  12. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    882

    Sep 26, 2018

    That’s how math works. The difference is that the snowflakes, I mean students, shouldn’t get credit for doing absolutely nothing.

    Percentages are independent of your feelings. The student would have a 60% average if they got 100% on 3/5 assignments and 0% on the other two. That’s why they have a 50% average because they got less than that, as per *your* example. I’m perplexed why an educator is confused by this.

    Just like in college and the real world, if you don’t do what your boss tells you, then you get fired. If you don’t meet deadlines then your company loses money and business (e.g. partnerships and contracts).
     
  13. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,330
    Likes Received:
    882

    Sep 26, 2018

    All the articles and videos I read and saw online did not say there were other issues going on. Even the principal declined to comment. Where did you read or hear this?
     
  14. tchr4vr

    tchr4vr Companion

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    128

    Sep 26, 2018

    I totally disagree with the no zero policy. In my experience, with a few exceptions, if they care, they will turn it in. This is why I have a no late work policy for everything other than large essays and projects. When they know they can turn it in whenever they want, they do. If they care enough to get a passing grade, they will turn it in on time--it takes a few weeks to really accept that there is no late work, but they adjust. If you don't do the work, you should not get a grade, end of story. As teachers, we also have the ability to modify grades and make adjustments--so if that child hasn't turned in some assignments, but it is still clear that they passed the class, we can override a grade or offer other options--but there should not be a across-the-board "you can't receive a zero" policy. Where is the incentive to do anything if you know you'll get a 50% for breathing?
     
  15. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Sep 26, 2018

    I can continue to search for more specific articles later, but:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...e-reason-for-fired-florida-teacher/ar-AAAG5rB
    "A spokeswoman from St. Lucia public school says in an email that there is not a policy that prohibits a teacher from giving a grade of a zero.

    "Ms.Tirado was released from her duties as an instructor because her performance was deemed sub-standard and her interactions with students, staff, and parents lacked professionalism and created a toxic culture on the school’s campus,” a spokesperson of the school told KSAT in a statement."
     
    Backroads likes this.
  16. mathmagic

    mathmagic Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    1,154

    Sep 26, 2018

  17. Backroads

    Backroads Aficionado

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,066
    Likes Received:
    1,416

    Sep 26, 2018

    No, they won't have to pay to retake the class. They'll have their lawnmower parents yell "because it's their right as the footers of the bill".
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  18. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    At this point I'm not even interested in this particular teacher's issues. It just brought to light this crazy policy.
     
  19. TeacherNY

    TeacherNY Phenom

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    810

    Sep 26, 2018

    LOL
     
    futuremathsprof likes this.
  20. Teacher234

    Teacher234 Cohort

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    138

    Sep 26, 2018

    I give my students a 0% one week after the assignment due date.
    I do not reduce points, if the assignment is late. Student are expected to work with me during lunch, however.
    A 100% late is still a 100%.
     
  21. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    420
    Likes Received:
    270

    Sep 26, 2018

    I believe in not giving zeros. I just think that some US states are so stuck in using averages or weights to calculate grades that this 50% policy seems the only way to create a no zero policy. There are way better no zero policies. I don't average grades. I grade by standard using 1, 2, 3, 4 and then look at what they most consistently and most recently demonstrated.

    As for the teacher, if her story is true, she wasn't fired for giving a 0. She was fired for failing to follow policies as laid out by her school - which is a perfectly understandable reason. Moreover, there are parts of her story that make me question it (like her years experience and being probationary - why would you leave a non-probationary position for a probationary position in a district whose policies you didn't agree with?) Also her description of the assignment does not sound to me like a well designed assignment. If they had 2 weeks there should have been check ins and consequences (like phone calls home, detentions, etc) if the student did have their prior steps done. If kids have nothing to hand in after 2 weeks of working in my class, that's on me.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. testguideseeker,
  2. nstructor,
  3. Ima Teacher,
  4. MrsC,
  5. ssgirl11
Total: 420 (members: 8, guests: 312, robots: 100)
test