Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ms.Holyoke, Apr 10, 2019.
Jun 24, 2019
The law is on your side. So long as you don’t use excessive force you can respond in kind.
You’re not allowed to defend yourself, everybody sees you on camera you’re out of a job and your license is revoked. They report you to the state department of children and family services, (DCFS) and you can’t get a job anywhere.
That’s why I’m sitting on my bed right now. I’d rather be at home and unemployed and have some kid run around the school hitting and kicking in fighting and hitting me.
I’m not dealing with it.
Teachers may use physical force if absolutely necessary. The State of Delaware, for example, notes that teachers may use ‘reasonable and necessary force’ to defend themselves or others, to remove a weapon from a student’s possession, or to subdue a fight. In 2013 self-defense classes became mandatory for school administrators from the Springfield, Mass., school district. The police department teaches the classes and encourages teachers and other school employees to attend. In South Dakota, teachers in rural areas can even carry weapons to school, but they must complete law-enforcement training first.”
“The Education Code recognizes that teachers (and other certificated employees) have a responsibility to intervene physically in order to protect students. A teacher may use reasonable force in order to quell a disturbance, protect others, in self-defense or to take possession of weapons.
Education Code section 44807 provides that “Every teacher in the public schools shall hold pupils to a strict account for their conduct on the way to and from school, on the playgrounds, or during recess. A teacher, vice principal, principal, or any other certificated employee of a school district, shall not be subject to criminal prosecution or criminal penalties for the exercise, during the performance of his duties, of the same degree of physical control over a pupil that a parent would be legally privileged to exercise but which in no event shall exceed the amount of physical control reasonably necessary to maintain order, protect property, or protect the health and safety of pupils, or to maintain proper and appropriate conditions conducive to learning.” The provisions of this section are in addition to and do not supersede the provisions of Section 49000. (Emphasis added.)
Education Code section 49001(a) provides in pertinent part, “An amount of force that is reasonable and necessary for a person employed by or engaged in a public school to quell a disturbance threatening physical injury to persons or damage to property, for purposes of self-defense, or to obtain possession of weapons or other dangerous objects within the control of the pupil, is not and shall not be construed to be corporal punishment within the meaning and intent of this section.” (Emphasis added.)”
This situation is very different and very sticky and preschool and Head Start. The main issue is Department of children and family services will always be on the side of the child. Even if you’re on camera and they see the child has attacked you. The teacher is supposed to help the child calm down redirect, and remove the child without harming them. But this is where the story ends. Despite all your efforts, you can’t get a director to meet with the parent to get this child removed because they need the children to keep their enrollment, to keep their funding. So no matter what you do they will bring this kid back in your classroom, and you and everyone else remains being a punching bag.
I feel so stupid, I just now realized we are talking about elementary children or younger. I teach High School students and so I was assuming we were talking about students in that age range. Whoops.
And the sad part is that spineless administrators make renewals easy for you as long as you're willing to put up with it and not involve them.
It’s OK don’t worry about it. It’s just that I’ve been dealing with it for so long I wish I had some answers. Thanks for just being there.
Exactly! They want to tell you to come up with some strategies and stop calling them, and you can’t call the parents. You can get all the stickers, little treats, throw in extra computer time you want it ...doesn’t matter. I mean what else can you do you have a child who is constantly, hitting and hurting, doing things tripping all the kids all day long???
Jun 26, 2019
Nothing...but write them up. But hey, administration's door is always open...
.........for gossip about another employee! Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 4, 2019
Actually, you should probably only defend yourself if you're prepared to leave that job.
A former colleague was being assaulted by a student and he pushed the kid (who had a lengthy disciplinary record) backward to avoid further contact. The administration, following bold talk about protecting the teachers, put the kid back in his class after a 1/2 day in-school suspension and told the teacher, "Our video cameras show you as the instigator." That was a lie. He quit the very day he was told that, filed suit against the school and won. They were just hoping that the talk of "video evidence" against him would dissuade him from taking legal action.
Essentially, in many areas, teachers have become human punching bags. As one teacher mentioned to me, "Ours is the only profession where recipients of our service dare you to do your job."
The law supersedes any administrator. Just because an admin frowns on a teacher defending themselves does not mean that a teacher cannot do so.
I mean, just think about that. How horrible is that?
But administration is here to support you! Lmao, what a crock of sh**.
Jul 5, 2019
Sigh...I'm going to try again. But on the next job I take, I will make it crystal clear: I am nobody's punching bag. I have the right to work in a safe and sane environment. And I would want the same for my child and her child too.
I remember coming into a day care classroom to pick her up. After 4, they tend to mix the age groups. Never understood that, but that's another post. I didn't see her. But I noticed some 9-10 year old laughing and talking to somebody under the table. Yep, that was my 5 yr. old child hiding under the table, being teased by this kid, and nobody was watching or there to help. I walked up and told that boy to leave her alone.
No telling how long she had been there.
Having cameras in the room mean nothing if nobody will step in and stop the hate and bullying.
Oh yea, but then you'll be the one that's wrong. Smh
Administrators, at least the ones I work under, are fine with just about anything as long as they're not the ones taking the blame.
The union said that by being members of a collective bargaining unit, we agreed to vacate the right of independent/outside legal representation, we would have to go through them. Therefore, if we went by the law and filed assault charges against the wishes of the school, the administrators would see to it that our observations/evaluations would magically become "unsatisfactory" ratings to build a case for termination. The union in turn would tell us the teacher ratings begin and end with the school district. We were forbidden by that same collective bargaining agreement from obtaining outside counsel to legally protect ourselves from unjust termination. I only saw it come up with two teachers in my 30+ year career, but it demonstrated that the schools/school districts are well prepared to work around any law.
In CA, that would be grounds for a lawsuit against the school district because the admin’s actions would be retaliatory in nature. Many employers have tried that before — that being that an employee magically started “underperforming” after they threaten their employer and then successfully win their case on those grounds. The problem, in your case, is that the teacher’s record (presumably) clearly indicates that they were deemed effective or highly effective for YEARS by the SAME administrators and so their “underperforming” turnaround wouldn’t hold any weight. The same thing would be done if I filed the assault charges and then started getting dinged immediately thereafter — the courts would consider the time frame and my record when making their determination.
That wouldn’t hold up in court. Sorry.
Jul 11, 2019 at 9:57 AM
You're right, it wouldn't hold up in court.
But under the union rules, you'd never get to court.
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