Results of Global Study on School Choice

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Tyler B., Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    This Global Education Monitoring Report contains this chilling sentence about choice policies:
    . . . they benefit wealthier schools, families and communities, increasing inequality and segregation.

    "Choice" turns out to benefit children from wealthier families and increase inequalities and undermine quality education for poorer students.

    This choice movement started with George W. Bush, was pushed forward by Obama and now is going full throttle with Trump despite all the evidence that it's not producing expected outcomes. All political parties are to blame by not keeping an eye on the consequences of this harmful policy.
     
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  3. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Companion

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    Didn't we just have this debate? Where's futuremathsprof to argue with you? ;)

    I agree though, these policies are paraded around like they're going to help struggling, poorer students, but I haven't really been convinced that they do.
     
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  4. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Actually, I said that public options should be emphasized on the whole, but alternatives should be made in certain instances when needs of underperforming students are not being met at “failing schools.” Again, I am not saying anything about the teachers in said schools, I am speaking to the lack of scholastic achievement. It is largely a cultural thing. My belief is that if students who are at-risk are removed from their less than desirable surroundings and put in a more structured setting, then they will flourish.

    I actually support public schools a lot — I am a product of the public schooling system.
     
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  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Nov 10, 2017

    In the article, it says “vouchers sometimes work, but not always.”

    It then goes on to say:

    “When education is not free, financial constraints can affect the ability to choose schools. School vouchers offer funds to families to help them overcome these constraints to choose schools more freely and therefore foster competition among schools. Targeted vouchers have had success in some contexts; for example, among low income recipients in New York, vouchers have had a significant positive impact on college enrolment and degree attainment by minority students. In Sindh province, Pakistan, enrolment levels increased by 30 percentage points in villages where schools received vouchers.”
     
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  6. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    Be careful with your language. Saying poor academic performance is "cultural" could be a dog whistle way of saying low performance is racial. Low performance is unrelated to "culture" — it's a product of poverty.
     
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  7. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    You’re right, that is not what I meant. I did not mean to offend. I should have said impoverished settings.
     
  8. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Ditto. Why gamble with your child’s future? If they are not learning the material in one school, then take them out and put them elsewhere. This makes me think of Einstein’s definition of insanity.
     
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  10. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    Just yesterday I saw a dicussion offering the possibility of making the system completely voucher. Have your schools, let all families pick where to go by not allowing a default local school.
     
  11. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    This could work!
     
  12. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Companion

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    Based on what? Just the transportation issues alone would be difficult to overcome!! Not to mention overcrowding issues it could create.
     
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  13. viola_x_wittrockiana

    viola_x_wittrockiana Companion

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    That's already how it works in some areas. The area of Chicago where my mom grew up now does not have a "neighborhood" high school default. They never went to the closest school though, because the closest is/was a magnet school. Right now, they apply to a list of schools by ranking their options. I don't know the details of how they decide who gets in where. I'm not sure how well it works either, since most of the kids go to Catholic school anyway, even with the options of a few pretty decent public high schools.
     
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  14. Backroads

    Backroads Enthusiast

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    I'd imagine schools have limits to make things managleable. I'm not saying I support the idea, but as a full opposite of public, it could be feasible rather than selective vouchers.
     
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  15. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    So, you are blaming the teachers for their students' lack of progress? This seems presumptive since you are in California and the school you cite is in Baltimore.

    When I was teaching in a low SES school, we had such a highly transient population that by years end, I only had four or five students that started. Those kids I kept all year scored well on the state tests, but I was held responsible for students' scores when I only had them in class for a week.

    You also seem woefully ignorant of what happened in Milwaukee over 20 years of voucher schools. The radically defunded public schools continue to outscore them. Perhaps the Baltimore school needs more resources or our economy needs to offer more opportunities for poor families.
     
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  16. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    This is exactly what's going on now. The data is piling up that "choice" does nothing for poor families except cause greater segregation and increasing inequality, and the powers that be (and some well-intensioned but poorly informed teachers) say let's have more of it.

    Did you read the study? Choice is a failure unless you are for segregation.
     
  17. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    That isn't the only explanation. It could be the others who attend have no desire to learn making it impossible for the teachers to do a good job even when they try. Peer pressure, behavior problems, or schools falling apart could add to a lack of general learning.

    But if it was the teachers who were incapable of imparting knowledge because of lack of content knowledge or lack of management skills, kids do deserve the ability to go elsewhere.
     
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  18. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    Baltimore spends $15,564 per pupil. How much more do you think they should have?
     
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  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    California pays $11,329 per pupil and school districts are still asking for more. It just never seems to be enough...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
  20. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Devotee

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    That's an outrageous sum! Those greedy, greedy teachers!

    I know how we can punish them. Let's destroy public schools and spend the money on a system that benefits children from wealthier families and increases inequalities and undermine quality education for poorer students
     
  21. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Comrade

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    Nov 11, 2017

    Let us assume the following:

    More money/resources for public schools = greater student achievement

    Yet, in many public schools that receive the most federal funding, the students are still underachieving. Isn’t that the opposite of what teachers and district officials are saying should happen? If more money is the answer, why does there still seem to be little to no change in student performance?
     

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