Procedures for getting out of seat AND handling arguing

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Ms.Holyoke, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    What procedures do you use for students who need to get out of their seat?

    This was never something that I thought I would need but my difficult class has gone better since I told them that they cannot throw anything away during class. I have boys who like to crumple paper, etc. and then get out of their seat to throw it away. It was getting ridiculous...every time I stopped teaching to pass out papers, 3 boys would get up to throw something out. I also make them raise their pencil if they want to sharpen it and I give them permission; and they are only allowed to use the electric one if I am not teaching. They don't have to ask to get out of their seat for a tissue (and it is not a problem...yet).

    I am thinking of implementing this same procedure in my other two classes. The behavior is not as bad but it is getting slightly worse. Does this procedure seem fair/reasonable or too strict for all of my classes?

    I am also wondering how people handle arguing. In my high class, some behaviors have started to show because of two students. One of them is obnoxious and I know it is because the kids are higher so they like to argue every.little.thing. For example, I don't answer questions about tests (points, etc.) during class because that would take too long. I told them that they need to write me a note and turn their test in or ask me after class. I have one student who continues to argue and won't let it go until I shut it down. However, even 15 minutes of this exchange causes the class to laugh, etc. and then we get unfocused. The same student today needed something taken away because he was passing it to another student and he raised his hand to ask for it back. Again, this takes away from the class because they all laugh. I have another student who similarly argues (other teachers told me that he argues as well). Today, he was mad that I let someone go to the bathroom before him and I told him that I do not argue in class. I called his father to inform him of this + his behavior but I'm wondering how I can "refocus" this class. I think I need to be more strict with them! This class is so easy + fun to teach but I'm not happy with the recent behavior.
     
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  3. Ima Teacher

    Ima Teacher Phenom

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    Nov 1, 2018

    I use Randy Sprick’s CHAMPs system, so I teach movement as part of that. Typically when they are working at their seats, their movement is work-related only. At the first of the year we discuss what is considered work related and what isn’t.

    Arguing. Don’t engage. Shut it down at first hint of argumentative behavior.
     
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  4. rpan

    rpan Cohort

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    Nov 2, 2018

    I think just a chat about expectations with your better classes might do it. Reiterate those expectations. And don’t argue with students. You’re the boss. They listen to you. End of. They need to raise concerns with you outside of class time. A simple “now is not an appropriate time” to shut it down.
     
  5. SpecialPreskoo

    SpecialPreskoo Moderator

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    Nov 2, 2018

    Put the garbage can right by their desk?
     
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  6. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    Omg...so my "good class" has been complaining about me to other teachers!!! I have 2 kids who love to argue! They get mad when I say no bathroom for the first and last 10 minutes of class. They complained because I gave a girl's phone to the office because she was watching videos in class and showing them to other people and got mad that I called her mom (said I didn't follow the "chain of command"). One kid got mad because he didn't get 2 warnings before a detention but was talking all class (I gave him several "looks".) He said he wanted his sister to meet with me and him after school today and I said no. I am so confused because this was my favorite class. They apparently also said that I text all class so it is rude for me to take a phone. (I use my phone as a timer.) It is honestly only about 3 kids (I think) that are arguing but it is obnoxious. My mentor just told me to tell the kids on Monday what the rules are of this class and what my expectations are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  7. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Nov 2, 2018

    How not to engage in argument:

    Teacher: Time to clean up.
    Student: (Not cleaning up.)
    Teacher: I'd hate to have you miss out on our special project since you decided not to clean up.
    Student: You never said to clean up.
    Teacher: That may be, but you are still going to miss out if you don't get started.

    The key words are "that may be".
     
  8. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    I also do not argue with them...I say "not right now" but they still get mad at me. I am going to try using the words "I understand, but..." or "that may be..." It might help. For example, here is what happened the other day. A student was watching videos on her phone and showing it to other kids. (Student's mom emailed me a few days ago concerned about her math grade.) I took the phone and told the student I would be giving it to the office. A bunch of kids started yelling, "that's not fair" and I shut it down. This girl kept yelling during the exit ticket "when can I have my phone back??" I didn't engage with the argument at all but still.

    Yesterday, I let one student go to the bathroom before another student. One student who loves to argue started arguing with me during a lesson. Again, I said "not right now, and we can talk after class." After class, I explained that I cannot spend class time arguing and he continued to argue that I should have let him go to the bathroom first. I told him that he eventually got to go to the bathroom and that he needs to go to his next class. Today, I gave him a detention for repeated talking and he argued that he didn't get two warnings. I actually signaled to him that he had one warning but needed to stop class to look at him several times for talking. He is the student who said that he wanted me to meet with his sister after school? Probably to argue about why I shouldn't have called his dad yesterday. I think I'm having these issues because they are higher kids because I rarely have things like this happen in my lower classes.

    On Wednesday, I returned tests and I told the students that I do not answer specific questions on their tests during the Do Now. I said that they can either write me a note on their and turn it in, and I will respond to the note by tomorrow, or they can see me quickly at the end of the day before we get on the bus. One student kept trying to ask me a question about his test and I obviously shut it down. However, the students were working on an independent open response question and this kid finished early. I asked him to bring his test up to me since he had a question and he got points off for not explaining. He again tried to argue and was mad that he got a 98 instead of a 99. Again, I shut it down but this student got mad. This student is only like this for me and not for other teachers. He is also regularly off task in my class (which has improved slightly recently). I was debating on whether I should enter "behavior needs improvement" as a comment for this student because I knew that he would get mad again if I do and I don't like dealing with it. My mentor said that I definitely should but I'm expecting a rude email this weekend from him once he sees the comment.
     
  9. creativemonster

    creativemonster Comrade

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    Nov 2, 2018

    It's ok for them to talk to another teacher - other teacher is (I hope and expect) backing you up and asking them to reflect OR is dismissing them and their silly teenage expectations. It sounds like you are reaching them and they are uncomfortable with not running things! Bravo to you!
     
  10. creativemonster

    creativemonster Comrade

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    Sorry, my post written as yours written - just one more note - I highly suggest repeating one phrase over and over and NO variety. "If you need to discuss something with me, please write me a note and we can, after or before school set up a meeting." (Or whatever your phrase is.) Do not vary what you say. You will repeat it often. EVENTUALLY, they will shush themselves or each other. Stay calm on the outside (If possible) and just repeat your mantra. My heart goes out to you - they sound tough at the moment. Please know they might change and become your favorites - Really! But in the mean time, just keep repeating your phrase.
     
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  11. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    My concern is that two of these students would actually want to set up an after or before school meeting (which I do not want to do or encourage.) At some point, they need to know that they just need to listen to their teachers. One of these students LOVES trying to argue after class so he would welcome the opportunity to meet every day before school. LOL. I can say that they can write me a note and turn it in to the tray.

    I am also trying to figure out a better bathroom policy. Especially in my tough class, I have about 15 kids who want to go to the bathroom. My policy is obviously one at a time but it's confusing to keep track and teach a lesson if they ALL want to go. I cannot teach this way anymore! I talked to the English teacher and he said that it's the same way but he shuts it down if they start abusing the policy. (However, we are not allowed to tell a kid "no" but we can ask them to wait.) It's tough for the kids to handle the constant interruptions to the lesson for bathroom/water, etc. In my last period class (the one with kids who like to argue), they have lunch right before when they can go to the bathroom. I think I'll announce that they should go to the bathroom during lunch and they should also fill up water before class because it's ridiculous to always have one kid out of the room...right? I know some teachers have policies that say that kids can't go to the bathroom during the lesson but I know that wouldn't work for me.
     
  12. creativemonster

    creativemonster Comrade

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    Nov 2, 2018

    You might actually need to spend some time with them outside of class (I tell them before school since then they really need to want it!) BUT I would make sure these meetings are one student at a time - treat each student individually. (And then they can't gang up against you) At the meeting make sure you set a time limit and tell them they need to put their points in writing if they need to go over the time given. At the end of the meeting make sure they understand and can restate your procedures. They don't need to agree with any of it, but they have to understand they are responsible to follow these classroom procedures. If there is a larger issue in their (teenage) minds, they can attempt to change your mind via a persuasive essay. (I'm an EVIL English Teacher!:) )
    Teenagers are grappling with very deep questions about fairness and issues of right/wrong. Along with their classes. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes over a lot of their brains.

    As for the bathroom/water... If you were braver than I am, you could have them create the rules on this...otherwise, I say no out of class except for emergency bathroom. I have them sign out. And yes, I have made phone calls - hello Ms susy's mom, I'm concerned that little susy has gone to the bathroom 8 times this week during my class. You might want to set up dr appointment. (bathroom stopped) It's time consuming for a few weeks, and then it works! (so far) (and my students not yours, so who knows...) Sorry, I'll shut up now...
     
  13. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    ^
    I might say that they can write me a note and turn it in to the turn in tray if they have a question or concern. Kids aren't allowed in the building before school anyways but I could ask them to come during homeroom if they want. Do you think this would encourage the this kid to argue though?

    We are unfortunately not allowed to say no to the bathroom but we can ask them to wait. I used to tell the kids they can go if it's an emergency and they took advantage so I stopped.

    I have contacted a lot of parents about behavior and I'm honestly tired of it. It's a lot of time on my part and not a lot of return. I have noticed basically no change in behavior and some of the parents seem to blame the teacher. I did email two parents when students were passing notes in class (these are very good students with supportive parents) and that helped. For the rest of my kids, I call parents, the parents seem concerned, they say they'll talk to their kids, and there is basically no change in behavior. One mom is awesome and I have contacted her about behavior, met with her and her son, and there is still no change in behavior. I feel like some of the parents in my school will just get mad at me for not letting their child go to the bathroom. I had one parent meeting about a student who is continually disruptive (banging desk, constant talking, talking during tests, etc.) and the mom blamed me for not letting her kid go to the bathroom once and told me that her son said I was picking on her. I feel like I am a bathroom attendant, not a teacher!! LOL.

    For bathroom/out of seat, I am frustrated by the constant hands up. It seriously takes away from the lesson and it is distracting! I wonder if I should use a bathroom signal...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  14. CharRMS

    CharRMS Companion

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    Could you take a whole class five minute water/bathroom break? It takes time out of everyone's time, but it may stop the arguments of "so and so went to the bathroom before me". In those five minutes they could go to the bathroom, water fountain, throw away whatever, and all in all have a brain break. Its not my favorite choice, but since you're not allowed to say no it may help.
     
  15. Ms.Holyoke

    Ms.Holyoke Groupie

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    I wish but we are not allowed! I mentioned this to another teacher during common planning but admin doesn't want to have so many kids in the bathroom at the same time in it. It would be a behavior issue and it would take a while anyways.
     
  16. CharRMS

    CharRMS Companion

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    Nov 3, 2018

    That honestly baffles me: admin saying no to group, teacher monitored bathroom breaks. You have to let them go, but you can't take the whole class? It seems like it would take longer and be more distracting for each individual kid to go to bathroom one at a time than it would be to take a whole class 5 minute bathroom break. Admin would say no even if you took them down there yourself (assuming boys and girls are very near each other) and had maximum number of kids to max number of stalls go in one group at a time with you monitoring right outside? One goes in when one comes out and the break last 5 minutes and once that time is up, the whole class goes back. Have you asked your principal or vice principal if you could do this? Just curious.

    To keep up with bathroom requests, could you get a notepad and each time a kid asked you to go, you write his/her name down next to the number and that's the student who goes next?

    I'm trying to remember what I did for bathroom requests the past three years. I know for awhile I tried Potty Passes; I phased them out for some classes when the bathroom requests weren't an issue. Each kid had 5 passes that they could use whenever they wanted (except for tests and direct instruction) without penalty, once those passes were up, no more bathroom without a check. Kids who had passes left at the end got a class coupon. The answer was mostly always yes, but the kids had to regulate how many times they could freely go. It made some of them realize they went way too many times during class; however, this did not apply to students who had a doctors note. Maybe you could try something like this, but since you can't say no, come up with a reasonable amount of passes and the student has to turn one in to you as a request for the bathroom: mark on it the time and a number so you know the order of the request. Kids who have all their passes get some kind of coupon. Maybe an extra day on homework, a free locker pass, etc. Something not directly tied with grades. It would help the kids realize how much they go, keeps the answer at yes, and gives you documentation.
     

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