PBIS

Discussion in 'General Education' started by YoungTeacherGuy, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    So we should punish students based on the bad parenting they may recieve? Society already seems to do a good job with that.
     
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  2. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    We do measure to a common standard. From there we compare different populations to see how they do compared to their peers. Why do black children in title one schools do better in NJ than Mississippi? We can then examine other data such as class size, per pupil spending, etc. then identify trends, see if they can be corrected, changed, etc. testing in and of itself is not a bad thing.

    I will agree that basing teacher pay on it is stupid. Finding ways to ensure student growth is not. Key there is growth not a magical achievement level that can't be reached.
     
  3. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

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    We have all signed a contract by paying taxes. That education isn't free by any means. We paid for it. We are owed it.

    Enter legislators who steal those tax dollars away for their backers and contributors. Education for the majority is fast becoming a pipe dream, as funding continues to decrease in the face of growing poverty and runaway crime.

    What you propose is a bit more hellish than the dystopian nightmare we are already rushing headlong into. Taking away children's only hope for a future by defunding education, then demand they prove themselves "worthy" of the education our government has stolen?

    That's a bit harsh.

    Myself, I'd prefer a mandatory death penalty for graft and political corruption. Now, that would take care of a lot of our problems in short order.

    You will be shocked to read such a suggestion, but the logic behind it questions why we may put a man to death for killing one person, while a corrupt politician will kill tens and hundreds of thousands, only to escape punishment altogether. There is no greater existential threat to the human race than corrupt politicians; they should be treated as such.

    My post veers away from PBIS, but then the suggestion to punish a hobbled society for being hobbled (and punished by the same people who hobbled that society, no less!) is a bit right-wing to go unchecked.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  4. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    Always Attend, we simply have different philosophies on this which I imagine may reflect the difference in the systems in which we work. I do not see value in comparing students to other students. I see value in looking at how students and schools measure up to a standard. I don't think standards are magical achievement levels. I think they are goals that we can reasonably expect the majority of students educated in an effective system to reach. I also think we have adequate data on things like class size from meta-analysis from people like Hattie. I don't think we need to continue to use standardized tests to determine the impact of things like class size and per pupil spending.
     
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  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    A visible learning fan?
     
  6. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    We do disagree but that's not a bad thing.

    You favor a criterian assessment rather than a normed assessment? What's the harm in using a test that does both? For example, let's say a student gets a question wrong. Maybe the student knew the information but got the question wrong anyway. You can make that determination if enough other students who you think knew the answer also got it wrong. You could determine that the question was worded poorly rather than the 40% of the population doesn't know something. You are just using a larger population sample than you normally would (within your class). We compare kids all the time. You compare reading levels to group children, pitch to determine where they stand in the choir, etc. This is just a greater scale.

    It's also a preparation for every other kind of test they will be judged on later in life. SAT, ACT, LSAT, MCAT, etc. all about comparing students.
     
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  7. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Companion

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    I really don't compare students to each other. I compare them to a standard. It simply isn't how I approach my students or the assessment of their outcomes.

    Standardized assessments in Canada that are "high stakes" are criterion based. The goal is to get everyone to standard. We don't rank kids and in some cases we don't even grade them on standardized tests. They are scored as meeting the standard or not meeting the standard. Certainly if a large number of students get a question wrong, the testing team may look at the question for issues but this doesn't change that the test is formed around criteria.

    We also don't use SATs or ACTs in Canada. Some schools use the GMAT, some don't require it. Student get into post-secondary based on their classroom grades which are based on how they measure up to criteria. So yes the very small percentage of students who go to law school or medical school will write tests where they will be ranked, but that is a very small percentage of students (given that about 25% of Canadian students go to university as undergrads).
     
  8. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Did you just use a homophobic slur? Seriously? Get out of here with that nonsense.
     
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  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    This led me to google search the term.

    The ‘nance,’ or Nancy Boy, was a gay burlesque character from the 1930s who brought guffaws and belly laughs as he pranced about the stage, creating campy scenes and sketches of gay life. He put on an outrageous show and audiences loved him. In the late 1930s, New York Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia, fearful of how the lurid burlesque shows would make his city look in the upcoming World’s Fair of 1939, cracked down on the houses.

    Part of LaGuardia’s anger was aimed at the Nance, whom critics said created audiences of lusty gay men having sex in the dark balconies of the burlesque emporiums. It was an outrage, the Mayor said, and police began swooping down on burlesque shows, closing many and forcing others to drop the nance act or greatly curb it.
     
  10. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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  11. Kat.

    Kat. Rookie

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    The military shouldn't even function like the military does:rofl:

    This thread makes me a bit nervous! This will be my first full year as the teacher and our school has decided to implement PBIS. We get a curriculum and everything. I'm all for having a school wide behavior system, but I'm also not a fan of giving kids candy because they acted like a decent human being.

    We will have "Pride Bucks" to hand out to students and we are required to do so. Specials teachers, grade level teachers, admin, SPED...everyone. Each grade level had to create a "menu" for what kids can use the pride bucks for, and it has to be the exact same across the grade level.

    The whole thing seems participation trophy-esque to me.
     
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  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    It's just promoting a positive culture and positive behavior. It is rewarding kids for meeting expectations. It is a motivator.

    It's shouldn't be a participation trophy vecause that would mean you're also rewarding negative behavior. It's about getting everyone to the same expected level.

    I'll be the first to say the prize system isn't necessary though. You could accomplish the same if not more through recognition at assemblies.
     
  13. nstructor

    nstructor Comrade

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    You are definitely accurate.
     
  14. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    Again, PBSIS is a philosophy. It's implemented differently everywhere. It would be like saying Readers and Writers Workshop is a bad system because you work in a district where they don't offer training and support. I would guess that the districts that buy the training and resources from TC would probably have a different opinion.
     
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  15. Teacherhere

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    PBIS is also very much racial discrimination against minorities. They assume many Blacks and Hispanics are just not capable enough to compete with Whites, Asians, and more affluent people. It is total BS! Those minority kids are more than capable. They have just shut down to school because of the crap they deal with at home and in their communities. Yet with PBIS we lower the standards so these kids can be praised and feel success. The problem is that these kids aren't giving their best so when you praise it, they know you think lower of them. These kids see through all the BS. These kids deserve honesty and deserve to be held to the same standards as everyone else. Doing anything else is just discrimination.
     
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  16. Teacherhere

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    Oh I apologize Caesar. I didn't mean to offend you. I am kind of an old breed.
     
  17. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

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    I've never seen it as a racial issue. The schools I've seen it used at have had largely white, low income populations. Yeah, you could say it's holding low income kids to lower standards (although I disagree) because you're rewarding them for what they should already be doing, but the fact is that they're not doing it. So, knowing that kids are not behaving appropriately, you have two main choices. Crack down with really tough discipline, or start rewarding good behavior with the intention it will become the new normal. I think a mix of both is good. Even in the best reward system, there have got to be consistent consequences. But also, sometimes students get into a pattern of getting in trouble so often that it is their "normal" and they don't really care about consequences anymore. Having a positive goal to work towards gives them something to focus on, rather than just trying *not* to be bad.
     
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  18. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Enthusiast

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    You do realize they use PBSIS in upper middle class school districts too right? I'm talking 90% white english speaking students.
     
  19. Teacherhere

    Teacherhere Companion

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    Sure, but I'm talking about its effectiveness in high density Black schools. PBIS was developed to focus with these more difficult schools. PBIS is not very effective in those schools for the reasons I stated. Those kids do not respond well to PBIS because it is fake. Those students are way more capable. My suggestion is to hold them accountable just like the best schools and find ways to motivate them. They want honesty not lower standards.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Phenom

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    My research shows something different for the reason PBIS was created. Please link information proving your assertion.
     
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