PBIS

Discussion in 'General Education' started by YoungTeacherGuy, Aug 27, 2017.

  1. Preschool0929

    Preschool0929 Cohort

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    87

    Aug 28, 2017

    I teach in a PBIS school. I was very anti-PBIS before starting at my current school. Mostly because I don't believe in extrensic rewards, treasure box, etc.. However, I have to say, the way PBIS is done at my school is fantastic. I completely love it, and our hard Title 1 population is super well behaved (for the most part). It helps that my school is brand new (built last year), so we set the stage for all structures, behavior expectations, etc.. Teachers had no choice but to "buy in", so that helps.

    Every classroom is required to do class dojo and a clip chart system (ok, i don't love that part). Each grade level has a point goal for students that they aim to earn each week. Teachers decide individually what students can do with their points (class parties, eat lunch with the teacher, etc..) School wide, we do "All green, all the time" parties for kids that have their clips on green every day, 1x/quarter. All the teachers stand in the hallways with music instruments and clap, yell, and cheer for the kiddos as they walk down the hall to get their treat (which varies, sometimes its just a snack, sometimes it's time in the gym, a dance party in the cafeteria, etc..) For kids that don't get to go to the party, they have to participate in a "re-teach". So, not focusing on punishment, but more just sitting down and re-teaching whatever behavior they had difficulty with.

    We have common structures and rules for hallway behavior, restroom & cafeteria behavior, etc.. Teachers are required to turn in their behavior data every month. Our PBIS coach goes into classrooms that are having less than 80% of students on green during the week and helps the teacher with positive reinforcement, coaching on using the clip chart appropriately, etc..

    Anyways, I could go on and on, but really I love it. I know our teachers get bogged down with the data portion especially, BUT it helps everyone stay accountable so that teachers aren't just having kids clip down for nothing.
     
    Backroads and AlwaysAttend like this.
  2. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    1,073

    Aug 28, 2017

    WOAH. This seems like strategy overload! But it also sounds like a tight system that is getting good results. I'm glad you like it and it's working for your school. It sounds very positive and I bet the kids like it.
     
  3. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    1,073

    Aug 28, 2017

    [​IMG]
     
    bella84, MetalTeacher and Backroads like this.
  4. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 28, 2017

    So we should punish students based on the bad parenting they may recieve? Society already seems to do a good job with that.
     
    bella84 and MetalTeacher like this.
  5. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 28, 2017

    We do measure to a common standard. From there we compare different populations to see how they do compared to their peers. Why do black children in title one schools do better in NJ than Mississippi? We can then examine other data such as class size, per pupil spending, etc. then identify trends, see if they can be corrected, changed, etc. testing in and of itself is not a bad thing.

    I will agree that basing teacher pay on it is stupid. Finding ways to ensure student growth is not. Key there is growth not a magical achievement level that can't be reached.
     
  6. AmyMyNamey

    AmyMyNamey Comrade

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    328

    Aug 28, 2017

    We have all signed a contract by paying taxes. That education isn't free by any means. We paid for it. We are owed it.

    Enter legislators who steal those tax dollars away for their backers and contributors. Education for the majority is fast becoming a pipe dream, as funding continues to decrease in the face of growing poverty and runaway crime.

    What you propose is a bit more hellish than the dystopian nightmare we are already rushing headlong into. Taking away children's only hope for a future by defunding education, then demand they prove themselves "worthy" of the education our government has stolen?

    That's a bit harsh.

    Myself, I'd prefer a mandatory death penalty for graft and political corruption. Now, that would take care of a lot of our problems in short order.

    You will be shocked to read such a suggestion, but the logic behind it questions why we may put a man to death for killing one person, while a corrupt politician will kill tens and hundreds of thousands, only to escape punishment altogether. There is no greater existential threat to the human race than corrupt politicians; they should be treated as such.

    My post veers away from PBIS, but then the suggestion to punish a hobbled society for being hobbled (and punished by the same people who hobbled that society, no less!) is a bit right-wing to go unchecked.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  7. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    171

    Aug 28, 2017

    Always Attend, we simply have different philosophies on this which I imagine may reflect the difference in the systems in which we work. I do not see value in comparing students to other students. I see value in looking at how students and schools measure up to a standard. I don't think standards are magical achievement levels. I think they are goals that we can reasonably expect the majority of students educated in an effective system to reach. I also think we have adequate data on things like class size from meta-analysis from people like Hattie. I don't think we need to continue to use standardized tests to determine the impact of things like class size and per pupil spending.
     
    nstructor likes this.
  8. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 28, 2017

    A visible learning fan?
     
  9. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 28, 2017

    We do disagree but that's not a bad thing.

    You favor a criterian assessment rather than a normed assessment? What's the harm in using a test that does both? For example, let's say a student gets a question wrong. Maybe the student knew the information but got the question wrong anyway. You can make that determination if enough other students who you think knew the answer also got it wrong. You could determine that the question was worded poorly rather than the 40% of the population doesn't know something. You are just using a larger population sample than you normally would (within your class). We compare kids all the time. You compare reading levels to group children, pitch to determine where they stand in the choir, etc. This is just a greater scale.

    It's also a preparation for every other kind of test they will be judged on later in life. SAT, ACT, LSAT, MCAT, etc. all about comparing students.
     
    nstructor likes this.
  10. Always__Learning

    Always__Learning Comrade

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2017
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    171

    Aug 29, 2017

    I really don't compare students to each other. I compare them to a standard. It simply isn't how I approach my students or the assessment of their outcomes.

    Standardized assessments in Canada that are "high stakes" are criterion based. The goal is to get everyone to standard. We don't rank kids and in some cases we don't even grade them on standardized tests. They are scored as meeting the standard or not meeting the standard. Certainly if a large number of students get a question wrong, the testing team may look at the question for issues but this doesn't change that the test is formed around criteria.

    We also don't use SATs or ACTs in Canada. Some schools use the GMAT, some don't require it. Student get into post-secondary based on their classroom grades which are based on how they measure up to criteria. So yes the very small percentage of students who go to law school or medical school will write tests where they will be ranked, but that is a very small percentage of students (given that about 25% of Canadian students go to university as undergrads).
     
  11. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    14,422
    Likes Received:
    2,413

    Aug 29, 2017

    Did you just use a homophobic slur? Seriously? Get out of here with that nonsense.
     
    bella84 and a2z like this.
  12. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 29, 2017

    This led me to google search the term.

    The ‘nance,’ or Nancy Boy, was a gay burlesque character from the 1930s who brought guffaws and belly laughs as he pranced about the stage, creating campy scenes and sketches of gay life. He put on an outrageous show and audiences loved him. In the late 1930s, New York Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia, fearful of how the lurid burlesque shows would make his city look in the upcoming World’s Fair of 1939, cracked down on the houses.

    Part of LaGuardia’s anger was aimed at the Nance, whom critics said created audiences of lusty gay men having sex in the dark balconies of the burlesque emporiums. It was an outrage, the Mayor said, and police began swooping down on burlesque shows, closing many and forcing others to drop the nance act or greatly curb it.
     
  13. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 29, 2017

  14. Kat.

    Kat. Companion

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    31

    Aug 29, 2017

    The military shouldn't even function like the military does:rofl:

    This thread makes me a bit nervous! This will be my first full year as the teacher and our school has decided to implement PBIS. We get a curriculum and everything. I'm all for having a school wide behavior system, but I'm also not a fan of giving kids candy because they acted like a decent human being.

    We will have "Pride Bucks" to hand out to students and we are required to do so. Specials teachers, grade level teachers, admin, SPED...everyone. Each grade level had to create a "menu" for what kids can use the pride bucks for, and it has to be the exact same across the grade level.

    The whole thing seems participation trophy-esque to me.
     
    2ndTimeAround and nstructor like this.
  15. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 29, 2017

    It's just promoting a positive culture and positive behavior. It is rewarding kids for meeting expectations. It is a motivator.

    It's shouldn't be a participation trophy vecause that would mean you're also rewarding negative behavior. It's about getting everyone to the same expected level.

    I'll be the first to say the prize system isn't necessary though. You could accomplish the same if not more through recognition at assemblies.
     
  16. nstructor

    nstructor Comrade

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    14

    Aug 29, 2017

    You are definitely accurate.
     
  17. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 29, 2017

    Again, PBSIS is a philosophy. It's implemented differently everywhere. It would be like saying Readers and Writers Workshop is a bad system because you work in a district where they don't offer training and support. I would guess that the districts that buy the training and resources from TC would probably have a different opinion.
     
    MetalTeacher likes this.
  18. otterpop

    otterpop Aficionado

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,237
    Likes Received:
    1,073

    Aug 29, 2017

    I've never seen it as a racial issue. The schools I've seen it used at have had largely white, low income populations. Yeah, you could say it's holding low income kids to lower standards (although I disagree) because you're rewarding them for what they should already be doing, but the fact is that they're not doing it. So, knowing that kids are not behaving appropriately, you have two main choices. Crack down with really tough discipline, or start rewarding good behavior with the intention it will become the new normal. I think a mix of both is good. Even in the best reward system, there have got to be consistent consequences. But also, sometimes students get into a pattern of getting in trouble so often that it is their "normal" and they don't really care about consequences anymore. Having a positive goal to work towards gives them something to focus on, rather than just trying *not* to be bad.
     
    Backroads likes this.
  19. AlwaysAttend

    AlwaysAttend Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,855
    Likes Received:
    621

    Aug 29, 2017

    You do realize they use PBSIS in upper middle class school districts too right? I'm talking 90% white english speaking students.
     
  20. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Aug 30, 2017

    My research shows something different for the reason PBIS was created. Please link information proving your assertion.
     
    AlwaysAttend and Backroads like this.
  21. MetalTeacher

    MetalTeacher Companion

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    110

    Aug 30, 2017

    I think so much of the backlash against PBIS either involves not understanding what it is, or having seen it implemented poorly in a very small sample size. At its core, it's having a system of school-wide behavior plans, procedures, and consequences that provide clear and consistent expectations for students, and having a tiered set of supports in place to deal with frequent problems, as well as taking data when problems occur to determine where and when these problems tend to occur. I have a hard time understanding how "consistent rules and consequences and knowledge of the conditions under which problems occur" could be construed as a bad thing, and there's certainly no lowering of standards or showering students with rewards for meeting basic expectations in the core requirements of PBIS. I'm not even sure how those became associated with it in the first place, because they're not part of it.
     
    Backroads and a2z like this.
  22. a2z

    a2z Maven

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2010
    Messages:
    5,102
    Likes Received:
    1,104

    Aug 30, 2017

    Poor understanding and poor implementation of the system. Also, people who don't want to change from their current methods of dealing with student behavior need an excuse, oh, I mean reason, to justify not changing what they do.

    I equate some of the problems with educators not being educated. Just as many don't understand special education law and just parrot what they hear from others, so to do they parrot what they hear about PBIS. These preconceived or false notions are then the basis for their perception, and they look for things to support their belief.
     
    Backroads and MetalTeacher like this.
  23. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,750
    Likes Received:
    1,197

    Aug 30, 2017

    Sadly, those awards have been associated with it.

    I am actually enjoying this thread and seeing a better understanding of what it's supposed to because hretofore I have had a terrible impression of PBIS--all based on horror stories I've been told of reward-based instruction and difficulties make the awards consistent and fair.

    Please be patient yet firm with me as I go through a paradigm shift here.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Wendyxx
Total: 358 (members: 2, guests: 274, robots: 82)
test