NCLB--Do you hate it, deal with it, or doesn't affect me?

Discussion in 'Teacher Time Out Archives' started by Superteacher81, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Jul 21, 2007


    I ordered it. I'll just take it off on my income tax
     
  2. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    When I taught in L.A., teachers were required to use Saxon Math, and focus on helping kids show their answers. You have to do more that get the right answer.

    since we are making up test questions, here is one...

    John has two apples, and Mary has two apples. How many apples do they have all together?

    A. 3
    B. 4 apples
    C. 6 pears
    D. 4


    How many of you automatically went straigh to "D"??? You know this is incorrect!

    The answer is "B". And the student must draw two apples, and two more answers, or they don't get the full credit!

    0 0 0 0
     
  3. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Jul 21, 2007

    Not hypnotized but browbeat by chicken poop administrators who are so afraid that their job will be taken from them that they are obsessive about it!
     
  4. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    TG, can you clear your inbox so I can respond??? :)
     
  5. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Jul 22, 2007

    (meekly)

    Yes'm.
     
  6. eduk8r

    eduk8r Enthusiast

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    Jul 22, 2007

    :) Okay, I'm sending....

    Everyone else, please excuse the interruption...:)
     
  7. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Jul 22, 2007


    So Upsadaisy you are one of them :D :) :D
    In middle school kids need an elective, I can't understand why not in the lower grades? I am a firm believer in keeping students on "academic tasks" but the specials are needed to balance the student out.
    Remember there are 3 domains of learning in Blooms
    Cognitive: mental skills (Knowledge), Gets all the ink. :confused:
    Affective: growth in feelings or emotional areas (Attitude), not easy to teach. But can be, EX. Environment :eek:
    Psychomotor: manual or physical skills (Skills), or "Cognitive Knowledge put to good use" is forgotten, easy to teach it is called "work" :cool:
     
  8. sdzbgdr

    sdzbgdr Rookie

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    Jul 22, 2007

    So...?

    What is the point of this discussion? There is no conclusive deductive proof.
    There have been millions of tests given in many states with both formats. Can't we just check the results? If students get the same scores on the multiple choice portion as on the "HOTS" long answer, constructive response, etc. portion, then just use the multiple choice format since it is cheaper?
    If the scores are not the same, then use both testing formats.
    Either way, teachers may prepare students using both formats. I don't think teachers would be giving multiple choice tests all of the time. I give multiple choice tests when someone messed up and suddenly wants the grades turned in, when I don't have time to grade papers. (Btw, there has been a lot of that - messed up communication -poor organization - including in places like LA and NY.)
     
  9. MrsC

    MrsC Multitudinous

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    Jul 22, 2007

    Our kids (grades 1-8) have 2 periods (40 minutes each) of Phys Ed, Music and Art each week and grades 4-8 have 200 minutes/week of French. On the days that they don't have Phys Ed, they are to do 20 minutes of Physical Activity in their classroom.
     
  10. Upsadaisy

    Upsadaisy Moderator

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    Eeks, I don't think I'm 'one of them', IrishDave, but one year I had my 5th graders only 3 periods a day twice a week!! They left after first period and I didn't see them until after lunch. That isn't even as much classroom time as most schools require for language arts alone.
     
  11. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    I understand just giving you a hard time.
    When we have a "Brain Trust" handle schedule classes and not use collaboration, Feces happens.
    One Idea that the "Brain trust" had was to have the kids have two electives they would go to one elective one week and then the next go to a second elective! if there was a Monday holiday you would not see them for 10 days!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2007
  12. NCLBNUT

    NCLBNUT Rookie

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    Jul 22, 2007

    What happens when schools do not make AYP?

    What happens when a school does not make AYP?
    I have been talking to several teachers and principals from different schools that have not made AYP in years. I heard that the state has come in and made them do all kinds of things. A principal said his teachers do not have time to teach, are busy with meetings, documenting everything in site. I just found out that they still have not made AYP for a seventh year in a row. At another school in another state I heard all of its staff was replaced and it still has not made AYP. Does this sound right to you, or do I have my facts mixed up?
     
  13. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    Wow, that is a lot! Our kids get 40 minutes a day, 4 days a week of either P.E., Art, Computer or Music. In our school, if they don't get it there, then they don't get it at all. Recess is considered P.E. (even though they are not playing any kind of structured games or anything in most classes) and even in Kindergarten there is a teacher who gets made fun of by the administration because she sings with her kids too much. I find myself sneaking in those things. Especially art, because a lot of these 5-year olds can't express themselves well verbally or in written form, but put a paintbrush in their hands and it's a different story.

    I tutor the 4th and 5th graders for the TAKS test and these kids don't read anything in their classroom but passages. They have been "strategied" to death. One of the kids I was tutoring circled the title of the passage and wrote "title" next to it. When I questioned it, he said that was what they were supposed to do. (They are supposed to make a prediction about the story based on the title and write that next to it). It never occurred to him that writing the word "title" was completely useless-he obviously knew it was a title. The kids aren't being taught to think about what they are doing; they are being taught to take a test and I don't know how that will benefit them later in life. My two cents.
     
  14. pwhatley

    pwhatley Maven

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    I agree, dave. More info on why further down....

    Don't ask me for official documentation, but I remember reading the results of a study in which it was proven that (high school) students who were in band or piano consistently achieved higher test scores (SAT or ACT, not sure, too long ago) than students who were not in band or piano. Further, students who were in choir, but not bank or piano, did NOT show the same achievement. The conclusion that they arrived at was that students who learn to play an instrument must ALSO learn to read music. The ability to read music is no different from the ability to read/write/speak French, Latin, or Spanish. It is just that, another language. I consider ALL art education to be vital to student success.

    Now, I'm going to paste this in:
    “Every student in the nation should have an education in the arts.” This is the opening statement of “The Value and Quality of Arts Education: A Statement of Principles,” a document from the nation’s ten most important educational organizations, including the American Association of School Administrators, the National Education Association, the National Parent Teacher Association, and the National School Boards Association.
    All that’s needed is a clear message sent to all those who must make the hard choices involved in running a school or school system. The basic message is that music programs in the schools help our kids and communities in real and substantial ways. You can use the following facts about the benefits of music education, based on a growing body of convincing research, to move decision-makers to make the right choices.

    The benefits conveyed by music education can be grouped in four categories:

    Success in society
    Success in school
    Success in developing intelligence
    Success in life

    When presented with the many and manifest benefits of music education, officials at all levels should universally support a full, balanced, sequential course of music instruction taught by qualified teachers. And every student will have an education in the arts.

    For more documentation, go to http://www.menc.org/information/advocate/facts.html
     
  15. TeacherGroupie

    TeacherGroupie Moderator

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    Jul 22, 2007

    This is what I mean when I say "teaching to the test"... and it grieves me past the power of words to express. But I don't think this kind of thing is a necessary component of NCLB as written - nothing in the legislation itself prescribes a particular way to achieve AYP, because that's left to the state and local authorities. And nothing prevents anyone from teaching kids how to think critically and well and then noting in passing that the thinking skills they've got can also be used profitably on tests.

    For a take on this from the point of view of teacher tests, see http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/showthread.php?t=40619.
     
  16. KinderCowgirl

    KinderCowgirl Phenom

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    That's true. So, I guess it's the administration who is putting so much pressure on teachers for high test scores who is to blame. I just know that every year at our school the turnover is in 3rd and 4th Grade and the reasons giving by the teachers who leave are that it's too much pressure. One of the teachers was teaching a novel and told by the administration not to waste time with that. That's the part that bothers me; these kids hate reading and equate learning with something monotonous and boring. They do reading passages all day, then stay for tutorials afterschool to read passages and then come in on Saturday to do guess what?

    I've known many people who say they won't "teach the test" but teach them to think critically, but when they get in the classroom and they alone are accountable for those test scores it's a different story. Not only is your job on the line, but the respect of other teachers. Our test scores are published by the principal - your name next to your scores K-5. This year our district implemented a bonus system for teachers based on their scores. I'm not sure they would be doing that if it weren't for NCLB.
     
  17. Irishdave

    Irishdave Enthusiast

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    Jul 22, 2007

    That is the rub, it is like telling some one to build a house without plans.
    I might build an underground house,
    TeacherGroupie a So Cal beach house,
    pwhatley a Plantation house,
    KinderCowgirl a bunkhouse,
    Upsadaisy a bungalow
    Aliceacc a Hamptons estate .
    Master Pre-K a split level in Schaumburg
    we all have different Ideas of how to build a house.
    What would we test?
    Is it a shelter?
    Do we have creature comfort?
    Does it have an Address?
    Can the kids Play outside?

    What does the test need to "test"?
    do we test 2+2=4?
    Do we test ƒ(x)= 3x+b


    For some reason it seems the ones wanting the test and
    writing the test don't teach the full student.


    The houses depicted in this post may or may not be the ones the other posters would build I just made them up :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2007
  18. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Jul 22, 2007

     
  19. Aliceacc

    Aliceacc Multitudinous

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    Dave,
    Can't I have a Hamptons estate instead?
     
  20. Master Pre-K

    Master Pre-K Virtuoso

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    Jul 22, 2007

    at least you got one...he put me in a box under the freeway!
     

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