MO teachers - Right to Work

Discussion in 'General Education' started by JimG, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Rockguykev

    Rockguykev Connoisseur

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    Jan 7, 2018

    In California it is usually 100k+. I'm at nearly 90k and I'm not even 40. Even in a low salary state it is still more than one would collect from Social Security which was your initial point. I'm not recommending anyone rely on government retirement, regardless of the form, I was simply pointing out that my double-dip is likely to be far more lucrative than a private sector one.

    And, I also didn't take your question as an insult.
     
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  2. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    Please grow a thicker skin. This comment is innocuous.

    And please don’t say teachers don’t care about money. That is demonstrably false. Teachers protest, where allowed, for SALARY increases all the time and talk about how little they are paid in these forums habitually. They want more money and pursue additional certifications and advanced degrees for the PAY RAISES.

    I find it very hypocritical when teachers say they don’t care about the money because they obviously do. Let’s not sugar coat things, please.

    Money DOES matter. It is not the only thing that does matter, but it certainly is a large component of nearly every human’s life. Let’s be real here.

    Finally, I’m sure that there are some things public school teachers have that I don’t. That’s great. But at my work, I don’t have to deal with unsupportive parents, I am paid very well, I have awesome benefits, I have an incredibly supportive teaching staff and admin, we are always taken care of, my admin don’t believe in pointless meetings, if a student does something that is grounds for expulsion then they are promptly removed (try that in a public school), I don’t have dangerous students or students who throw things at me, I don’t have to worry about paying the bills like a lot of teachers I read about here, I get more time off than public school teachers, my admin listens to teachers’ concerns and always asks for their input during meetings; I get bonus checks and gifts all the time from staff members, students and parents; classroom supplies are replenished as soon as they are depleted, I have access to the latest educational technologies, if I request something from the admin they provide it or do their absolute best to provide accommodations, and I could go on and on. That’s why I’m so enamored with my school. It’s what a school should be like. It’s what ALL schools should be like.

    Frankly, I am astounded at some of the things I hear public school teachers on here have to deal with and I am very impressed. Some of you even spend thousands of dollars of your own money to give supplies to disadvantaged students. I would never do that. Kudos to those who do that. I just don’t understand why you would stay in a school if you know it’s going to subject you to a life of poverty and subject you to toxic work conditions.
     
  3. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    Thanks for the clarification. My initial comment about SS was to say that, at least in my state, public school teachers can’t collect it. It’s one or the other but not both. I also agree that you shouldn’t sole rely on government benefits in retirement — between my Roth IRA, SS, and my other investments I will make at least 7k a month.

    Most places in California do not pay out $100k+. Some do, but the average is in the 80k-90k range.

    https://www.google.com/amp/amp.sacbee.com/site-services/databases/article3187034.html

    Check out the following link for all public school districts in California:

    https://www.cde.ca.gov/ds/fd/cs/documents/j90summary1617.pdf
     
  4. bella84

    bella84 Aficionado

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I don't think any teacher is living "a life of poverty". For many of us, it's tough to make ends meet, and we live paycheck to paycheck without being able to save up large amounts of money or make investments, such as you. But, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a teacher who is truly living under the poverty line, unless they are a single-income household with many dependents - which, I would bet, is rare.

    Most of us would like more pay and better work conditions, but sometimes a perfect job (like the one you seem to have) just don't exist. We can't always go back to school to get a degree in something else, and moving isn't an option for everyone. Some teachers just have a passion for what they do and don't mind the low pay or work conditions.

    Sometimes life, or a career, just doesn't pan out the way you hope it will, and you have to make the best of the situation in which you find yourself. Each of us chooses our own path, based on our own values and priorities. When you stop expecting everyone else to place the same value on the things which you value, then you'll start to understand why someone might make the choices that they do.
     
  5. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Excellent post and it made me think about some of my expectations. Sometimes you have to put yourself in other people’s shoes and look at things from their vantage point. Not everyone can just uproot their families like I have suggested. I just wished that teachers made more in different locales because you work just as hard as I do if not harder for some of you, and so I think your salaries should reflect your dedication and commitment to the teaching profession.
     
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  6. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 7, 2018

    The one thing that got me though was when you mentioned you were sexually harassed by students on 3 separate occasions. I have never had to deal with that in my public school, and to my knowledge, neither have any of my colleagues. I'm sure in some public schools, it might happen. If I were treated like that by students, I would have left the school a long time ago.
     
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  7. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I wish it was protected better.

     
  8. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    True. However, I am a person who gets over things pretty easily. Do I wish those events did not happen? Absolutely. But the students in question were disciplined and I thought nothing of it afterwards. I look at it this way: The pros of my school definitely out way the cons. I cannot find any other school comparable to mine, so I’m staying.
     
  9. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    California has its problem, don’t get me wrong, but at least our governor has the peoples’ interests in mine when he makes decisions that affect the budget. Chris Christie is horrible and he is bleeding the pension system dry. New Jersey teachers should be worried...
     
  10. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 7, 2018

    We have a more pro-education governor being sworn in later this month. After 8 years of the big boy, I think we're ready for a change. I don't think any governor really has a good solution to the pension problem, but at least morale should improve.
     
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  11. jadorelafrance

    jadorelafrance Cohort

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    Jan 7, 2018

    Personally, I’m at the earlier point in my career that if I didn’t have a pension, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I’m already investing and I get that’s where the world is going. However, I have put tens of thousands of dollars already into the retirement system and will probably end up putting hundreds of thousands of dollars by the end of my career (43 years of teaching by the time I’m eligible @7.5% of my yearly income), so I had better see that money.
     
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  12. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I never said that teachers don't care about money.

    I deal with a lot in my public school, but most of the issues are not necessarily related to the fact that it's a public school. Because I work in an area of extreme poverty, I deal with the fallout from that poverty. It's not easy, but I've decided that the type of school environment I'm in now is where I want to be. For me, it matters that I feel like I'm making a difference. I also feel that my particular skill set lends itself to working with this particular population.

    I've decided that working at my school is what's best for me, just as you've decided that working at your school is what's best for you. You've described numerous incidents of egregious sexual harassment, as well as inappropriate behavior on the part of your colleagues. Unless you were lying about or exaggerating those events, they sound like part of a terribly hostile work environment of which I'd prefer not to be a part. I've never been sexually harassed by students. For me, ongoing sexual harassment would be one of those things that would override many other things that I may enjoy about my job. For you, it's apparently something you've chosen to accept or overlook in exchange for not having to put up with different problems. That's your choice, and it's valid. My choice to work with at-risk students is also valid. Why can't you just accept that both of us, along with virtually every other teacher out there, have made our own choices after weighing the evidence and deciding what is and is not a dealbreaker? Why do you have to crap on everyone else's choice when it's not yours?
     
  13. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I do think the prof means well. I just think he likes his school and his situation so much he doesn't realize that sometimes it can come off sounding a bit arrogant or condescending. I sometimes read it as though he's the kid bragging he got the shiny, new Nintendo 64, while I was still happily playing my Super Nintendo. ;)
     
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  14. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I don't think you're wrong.

    I do find it curious that he's so quick to dismiss the apparently constant sexual harassment that comes with his Nintendo 64 but he needs to hype up all the problems that come with my Super Nintendo.
     
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  15. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    The only thing I ever said about my colleagues is that 2-3 of them are frequently late to work in the mornings. What innapropriate behaviors are you talking about?

    I am not as effected by negative things as the next person, I suppose. I get over things. What benefit is it to me if I continually gripe about past experiences of mine? I’ve experienced lewd comments and actions so much in my lifetime that I’ve become desensitized to them. When they happened at my workplace I was taken by surprise because they were done by students.

    Lastly, maybe I have the wrong impression of you, but you seem to get regularly outraged by the slightest things (not sexual assault because that’s no laughing matter). That’s why I said you should grow a thicker skin. For example, my saying that a teacher making less than the median household income (59k) in retirement is poo-poo is somehow insulting or what you call a “gross insult”? Seriously?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  16. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I’m of the belief that if there are far more pros than cons then it’s okay to overlook the cons. One or two examples of negativity pales in comparison to dozens to hundreds of examples of other misdeeds that are routinely committed.
     
  17. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I actually applaud you for working with at-risk youth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think teachers should look out for themselves more and think about financial stability when making career decisions, if possible. Intrinsic rewards are important, but teachers have to live.

    That’s why I speak out against public schools. Public school teachers have to deal with far too many problems as well as meager pay (in most red states) and it’s not fair. That’s why I wish they would look for better schools if they are able and willing to relocate. They owe it to themselves because they DESERVE it for working in such a noble profession.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  18. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    It’s not constant. It only happens a few times a year by overly promiscuous students. I elevate it to the administration as soon as it occurs. For example, when I was chaperoning on a field trip this past year two of the freshman male students that I was overseeing jokingly commented that they were going to sleep with me. I asked a colleague to step in and I immediately fetched the principal and reported it. It was serious and the students were sent home and harshly disciplined at a later date. I can’t help what some students say about me. I’m not excusing their behavior, but I’ve encountered this nonsense even before I was hired by my employer since I was a teenager. It’s just a fact of life that I’ve come to accept.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  19. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I think the issue is, at least for me, this would be seen as the "scandal of the year" if it happened in my public school. I think it's different expectations about respect and authority. I don't mean to generalize, but I can't help but imagine that perhaps since it is a private school, some of the students are more accustomed to living a life where they can really just do what they want without consequence, and that since they are paying to be there, they can get away with more than they otherwise would.
    I can say that in my 6 years, the worst thing I can recall happening is one kid thought it would be cute to try calling me by my first name. He quickly found out I didn't think it was cute. I honestly am not sure what would happen if a student in my school did any of those things you describe, but to me, it is close to the same level as physical violence.
     
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  20. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Fanatic

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    Jan 7, 2018

    I agree with you, actually. Some of my students are definitely entitled. Not all, but a fair few. I think all of us are totally against sexual assault and physical violence. With that said, I am well aware that because I look so young that certain students treat me differently. They still respect me because they address me by my proper name, they follow instructions and directives, they give me high-fives and greet me with a smile, they abide by classroom procedures, and they generally do the right thing. I just seem to be a magnet for lewd comments and gestures by those few idiotic troublemakers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018

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