Math Praxis 5161

Discussion in 'Single Subject Tests' started by MrCoach615, May 12, 2016.

  1. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

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    Jul 5, 2017

    I would like to know someone to study together for Math 5161 close to Gettysburg PA.
     
  2. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 6, 2017

    I don't live near there and probably everyone on this thread doesn't live near there.... Your best bet is to look at a post of mine on the previous page and look at the study materials I have listed.
     
  3. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

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    Jul 7, 2017

    Hi Ash G,
    Did you pass already in the test? I may should say we can study together by Skype or FaceTime it works too. I know a lot math my problem was the time and the kind of questions there. I'm slow may because English is my second language I really need more practice. Thank you so much for reply.
     
  4. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

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    Jul 7, 2017

     
  5. Gus2192

    Gus2192 New Member

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    Jul 7, 2017

    Hi guys!
    I’m taking the Praxis 5161 next Saturday. I’m in State College PA. Is anyone interested in studying together?
     
  6. RNSP

    RNSP Rookie

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    Jul 9, 2017

    Hi Gus2192,
    Yes, I'm. I did take one time and it was horrible because my time management. If you want we can try to schedule one time to exchange experience and answer some questions together. This is my email: renatansp @gmail . com. Best,
    Renata
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  7. Expo Markers

    Expo Markers Rookie

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    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey everyone!

    I'm taking this in a month so I can student teach in the Spring. SC only requires a 150, which is some sweat off my back, but I have to take the PLT and the Math one within the same 4 day window. :/

    Everyone seems to have Cliffs, any other sources that you all recommend?
     
  8. Toya

    Toya New Member

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    Jul 12, 2017

    What school in South Carolina , I'm also preparing to take the test next month in SC .
     
  9. Expo Markers

    Expo Markers Rookie

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    Jul 12, 2017

    I'm at a women's college in the Upstate. For the sake of some anonymity, I'm not going to name it. You?
     
  10. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey, RNSP

    I passed with a 169 which was the unofficial scaled score at the end of the test. It's almost a 100% guarantee what you get as an unofficial score at the end of the test will be your official score. To be honest, I'm on break from teaching so I'm not going to be able to study with you. I would get the new cliff notes book and work through that but also use the study guide given from the ETS site. The questions are not going to differ from the what the ETS study guide is asking for from you.
     
  11. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 12, 2017

    Hey,
    Aim high and get that 160 mark!!!! That keeps options open if you ever want to teach in another state in the near future. It's probably about getting 3 or 4 more questions correct to get from a 150 to a 160. Use cliff notes and the study guide from ETS!! Don't stress and use your time wisely. If you can't answer a question in about 30 seconds and you know you need time..... MOVE ON!!!! I know it's hard to do but you have to do it.
     
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  12. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Jul 29, 2017

    It's been a little bit over a year since I've taken this exam. I'm the type of person who allows one bad experience to ruin it all. I had a conversation with my calculus professor and she really set me straight! I have the highest grade in the class, and she told me how shocked she was that I haven't attempted the test in over a year. Although I majored in Accounting, I've always been great at math. There were three types of math minors at my school. I chose the statistics minor. I conveniently ignored the minor with calculus in it. lol I decided to take some math courses (calculus) to sharpen my skills. When I took the test last year, the majority of it was calculus, which was my weakest area next to geometry. Algebra and probability/stats are my strengths. I do have a copy of the Cliff Notes 5161 book. I drew a blank on the calculus section, which is why I enrolled in courses. Not to mention, the VA pays for it, so I figured I might as well educated myself even more. I wouldn't recommend the book to people who haven't studied at math in years or those who don't know the basics. Luckily the majority of the book made sense to me. I'm taking Calc II this fall. Took Calc I this summer and got an A. I've been "stalking" the comment section here for a while, and I am genuinely happy for those who've finally passed. I can only imagine how much the process put a damper on you all mentally. 160 is too high in my opinion. Not to mention, there's not a long line of people who would like to teach math. My school district used to allow people to teach if they had at least 24 credit hours in a subject. Now, they want you to either have an actual degree in it or simply pass the test. There's over 20 math positions that need to be filled. It's crazy. I'm not sure when I will be attempting the test for a 2nd time, but I know it will definitely be before this year is up. One thing's for sure, these calculus classes have been helping me tremendously.

    Good luck to you all and a huge congrats to those who've passed this year!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  13. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Jul 29, 2017

    Y'all are lucky. SC used to require a 160 like the majority of the states who take the Praxis. I also saw that CO went down to a 150 as well. I wish TN would come down on their score! It's so dang annoying. One thing I am grateful for was that I was able to complete my student teaching regardless of the fact that I didn't pass my test. But I've heard the majority of programs don't offer this option. Either way, it sucks.
     
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  14. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 29, 2017

    There isn't that much in depth calculus on the exam and if you go to the study guide you don't need to know an entire course of Calculus 1 and 2. Just bits and pieces from Calc 1 and 2 should suffice. I would focus on the study guide to narrow down exactly what you need to know. Another piece of advice is to keep in mind the calculator situation that is on-screen now. There are questions like finding the line of best fit. You used to be able to plug all of the data into the calculator and you would get the line of best fit. Now the on-screen calculator doesn't allow you to do that. The interesting part is that I believe they would never ask a question like that of you to do considering you don't have the calculator to do it. Doing the line of best fit would take forever to do by hand anyways. You can throw out some questions that are similar to the line of best fit scenario in my opinion. Use the study guide and YouTube to figure out how to do similar problems from the study guide. There is only so much of calculus they can ask of you which is why you need to narrow it down from the study guide. Remember the magic number is to get 36 correct to guarantee you passed on any version. My first raw score was a 32 but I took an easier exam and got a 155 scaled. The second raw score for me was a 34 but I took a harder exam and got a 169 scaled. If you have any more questions I'm here to help. Take Care and Good Luck!!
     
  15. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Jul 29, 2017

    Ash, thanks for responding! The reason why I decided to take Calc classes is because I literally had ZERO Calc knowledge. I had to take Pre-calc II before they allowed me to take Calc I. If you asked me what a limit was last year, I would have looked at you like you asked me to borrow one of my designer bags. LOL. So it was a personal choice for me. I'm sure I don't need the extra classes, but they are free for me, so why not? Also, I wasn't too sharp on trig. I just knew the very basics. I think I messed up last year by making my own study guide, instead of following the one Praxis provided. I actually printed it out about 20 minutes ago. So I decided to go over the things I saw on the exam that I either forgot or didn't know, then start following the study guide and going through the Cliff Notes book. And I heard that they don't allow us to use calculators on the test anymore! It's like they want us to take up more time using that stupid calculator of theirs. Time management wasn't an issue for me when I took the first exam. Two questions: Was time management an issue for you due to the use of an on-screen calculator? Also, What methods did you use to study? I'm currently using a mixture of Khan, Math Is Fun, the Praxis study guide and the Cliff Notes book.
     
  16. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 29, 2017

    Time management was tough for me both times. I just had to keep moving on if the problem didn't stick out at me right away. The calculator they make you use is kind of a pain but isn't unbearable. It takes a little more time to use than the TI-83 because you have to keep clicking around etc. You definitely want to be familiar with the calculator before using it. You can use a trial version for 90 days so when you plan on taking the test again make sure to start the trial. I understand what you're saying with the calculus and it definitely can be abstract. The resources you used sound similar to what I used. There are also two practice exams that ETS sells and I would buy those as well.
     
  17. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Jul 30, 2017

    PrettyQueenBee, I am happy that you are taking more math courses and have achieved success. Great job!

    However, as a math teacher who: 1) majored in Math as an undergrad at a UC school and went on to get a Masters in Mathematics Education, 2) passed the CSET Math Single Subject Subtests I, II, and III, as well as 3) passed the Praxis 5161 -- all on the first attempt -- I think all potential math educators should be required to demonstrate their subject matter competency. By your own admission, when you were sitting for the test you did not know what a limit was, weren't good at trigonometry, etc. This is not acceptable if you plan on teaching high school mathematics. You should have extensive knowledge of all of those areas before you ever set foot in a math classroom, even if you plan to teach only Algebra 1 and Statistics.

    You do realize that, for example, the probability model for a geometric distribution is that of an infinite series so even though it may not seem like the probabilities sum to one when written out on a table, they actually do because in a geometric setting we count the number of failures until the first success, and so you theoretically can have an infinite number of failures. This means that it is an infinite geometric series, so we need to find the sum of the series to show the probabilities sum to one. This formula is often taught in Pre-Calculus and beyond. Finally, most statistical formulae are derived using calculus.

    This is one major issue that a lot of people in this forum fail to realize. There needs to be a greater standard for math teachers because if they can't pass the test themselves, then they shouldn't be instructing other students when their understanding is minimal at best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  18. Ash G

    Ash G Rookie

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    Jul 30, 2017

    I agree with you partially when it comes to taking math classes above and beyond what you teach. To be 100 percent honest with you I could have taught my remedial math class when I graduated high school. I have taught Algebra 1 Part 1 and Honors Geometry for two years now. Algebra 1 Part 1 is my remedial math class. If you're proficient in Pre-Calculus you obviously should know your Algebra inside and out. The problem is I think math majors take TOO MUCH MATH. I don't need Advanced Calculus (Calculus after Calc 3) to teach either of the courses that I have taught. Even if I was asked to teach Calculus 1 and 2 I still wouldn't need Advanced Calculus. This is why there is a shortage for math teachers is because how much is required to become a math teacher in most states. Here in Virginia we are so low on math teachers you can just take the Algebra 1 Praxis and teach Algebra 1....... Wait, so I went to school for all this math to basically teach Geometry up to this point and possibly Calculus or AP Stats? The Praxis 5161 is an unfair exam due to time. If you were given more time I think it would be fair. Math isn't something you can just answer right away and it takes time to think and problem solve. Obviously tests need to be timed BUT if you're going to ask 60 questions given 2.5 minutes per question and you're not grading ten of the 60 then I just don't think that's fair. I was under the gun both times I took the test and I know my content. I graduated with a 3.0 overall in my math courses and took an honors math course in college due to doing so well in Calculus 1. If I had another 20 minutes I would have definitely scored higher because the problems started clicking after some thought. To teach HS math you don't need Real Analysis or Abstract Algebra which a lot of schools require. Unless you're going for your Master's Degree or PhD. in pure math it's beating a dead horse at that point lol.
     
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  19. futuremathsprof

    futuremathsprof Aficionado

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    Jul 30, 2017

    I can see where you are coming from but I will have to respectfully disagree. You use elements of the higher math courses to explain why theorems and formulae work in lower-level classes. You need to be able to not only state WHAT the correct answer is, but WHY that answer is what it is. The advanced students will always ask why and how. For example, students are typically taught that any number raised to the zero power is one, but they have no idea WHY.

    Here is what I show my students when we do the unit on integer exponents:

    Let "a" be any number, except zero (i.e. a =/= 0).

    Then 1 = a/a, because any number divided by itself is one. Also, I explain here why "a" is nonzero because you cannot divide by zero (I show them this proof earlier in the course).

    We can rewrite a/a as a rational expression (i.e. a fraction) with multiplicity of one, so we have:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1.

    Using the negative exponent rule, we know that 1/x^n = x^(-n), where x is a constant and n is a natural number. Thus, we get:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1 = a^1*(1/a^1) = a^1*a^(-1).

    Recall that when we multiply like bases we add exponents [e.g. 2^2 = 2*2 = 2^1*2^1 = 2^(1+1) ]. By this method, we obtain:

    1 = a/a = a^1/a^1 = a^1*a^(-1) = a^[1 + (-1)] = a^0, which is what we wanted to prove. That is, that any number, save for zero, raised to zero power, is equal to one. QED

    NOTE: This is the type of work that you are expected to show on the FRQ section for the CSET Math Single Subject Subtests.

    Short story long, you need to know the ins and outs of every type of scenario that students might encounter in the course. Merely stating that they just need to memorize a^0 = 1 is not enough, nor stress understanding.

    Here's yet another example: When students learn about the different sets of numbers (real numbers, whole numbers, integers, etc.) they are often confused why certain sets are "larger" than other sets. This is when I bring up the concept of cardinality (size) of sets and that if a set can be put into one-to-one correspondence with another set, then the sets are said to be equivalent (in size). To demonstrate, the set of real numbers has a greater cardinal number, that is, has more elements, than all of the other subsets of numbers, so it is largest. Again, we are discounting complex numbers here because they are not taught until the second semester in Algebra 2.

    Are you starting to see how knowing higher-level mathematics is necessary? It is what sets apart a good math teacher from a bad one.

    FYI, I managed just fine on the Praxis 5161 and had about 30 minutes to spare when all said and done. I used this to go back and check my answers. I think my score was like 194, if I remember correctly, and I did not study beforehand at all. Do you want to know how I did that? Because I KNOW the math through and through. The rest just fell into place. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  20. PrettyQueenBee

    PrettyQueenBee Rookie

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    Jul 31, 2017

    You could have saved your faux compliment at the beginning. Let me give you a little background: In undergrad, I majored in accounting and minored in math (and Spanish). I never made anything less than a B in any of my math courses (high school or college). I tested out of College Algebra and was able to go straight into MATH 1830 (Elementary Calc), which was a class required by the College of Business. My professor in 1830 was a woman who inspired me and she's the reason I minored in math and love it so much. Although I chose the statistics track for my math minor, let's not act as if it was a walk in the park. I chose stats because I was great at it and it flowed with my accounting degree. I can't tell you how many times I've used stats when I worked for the government (and for supply chain companies) in accounting. I will admit, I was a little intimidated by calc because it "looked" hard. But once I got in Pre-calc and Calc I, I breezed through them both with no problems. I earned A's in both classes and I'm sure I'll do the same for Calc II (I heard this was the hardest of the 3) & III, Linear Algebra and Differential Equations. WHY? Because I KNOW math and more importantly I LOVE math. One of the smartest women I know in mathematics failed the test 4 times before passing many moons ago. Mind you, the required score was lower back in those days. I say all of that to say: My understanding of math is not minimal at best. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion just because I admitted to not knowing what a limit was before taking classes. Also, I'm not the first math teacher to teach math without a math degree, and trust me I won't be the last.

    Oh and I almost forgot! The *real* reason I am taking these math courses is because I got accepted into LSU's M.S.- Mathematics program. Naturally, they require those classes before a student takes the actual courses for the masters program. Now how did little ole Bee get into the program without Calc, LA, or DE or a degree in math? They took one look at my transcript, saw the amazing grades in those 24 hours of math credits, and the rest was history. Louisiana requires a 160 just like TN. And Louisiana has such a high need of math teachers that they're willing to hire me since I've taken so many math courses.

    I've only taken the test ONCE. Give me a break dude. Not only will I get that 160 and continue to teach, but once I finish my masters I may become an Instructional Facilitator, a PLC Coach (google it), a college professor (something you're still wishing to become), or even a statistician for Ford Motor Company! Nothing is impossible darling.

    You don't have to come on this forum and get nasty and arrogant. This is the first nasty comment I've seen since I've been stalking this website. And it's really such a shame, especially since our ultimate goal should be to educate the youth and prepare them for the long road ahead of them. Just because someone mastered their content test on the first try doesn't make them a great teacher. It simply means that person mastered the content test. Notice how your comments hold nothing of true substance. Just a bunch of meaningless examples on math. I'd hate to take you at any level. Nothing worse than a teacher who's full of him/herself.

    As we say in the south: Bless your heart!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017

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