Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. TeacherCuriousExplore

    TeacherCuriousExplore Cohort

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    Feb 23, 2018

    Armed teachers will only bring about a school atmosphere that is surrounded by policing something that most students in disadvantage areas are all too familiar with. Why not create a positive atmosphere and show students a life outside of what they already know. As a result, minority students will be forced to alternative schools or placed in long suspension bringing a gap in their educational attainment
     
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  2. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Feb 23, 2018

    So sad!

    We do have a mental health problem in this country. However, I can't believe our country has a higher percentage of suicidal children or homicidal maniacs than anywhere else. We are awash in guns. It's not hard for an ill child or a crazy adult to get a gun.
     
  3. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Didn't really see anything in there that answered my question other than the fact that there have been reports of some teachers making racial slurs.
     
  4. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    I understand what you are saying, but in the mean time how do you protect students from the random student who wants to shoot up a school? Or is that something we should not address in any form of policing way but only do so in wealthy areas that are not as used to being surrounded by gun violence?

    I saw on the re-play of the gathering at the White House that teachers from DC said they have entrance metal detectors and student searches at the only open entrances to the school and multiple armed officers at the school. She seemed to believe it produced a safe learning environment and the students did not mind. This was in a high-crime, high-poverty area of DC.
     
  5. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Really? Our country has no community any more. We are divided. Mistakes are seen as *insert negative term here*. Kids are surrounded by violence and ideas that are really beyond their understanding on a continual basis. Kids who are kept from those types of things are seen as protected as if something is wrong with not having kids know about more adult ideas at a young age. Every kid is expected to be THE BEST at everything. If they drop their guard for a moment, they are seen as not doing enough.

    Parents are under huge pressure from change in finances, expectations, and information overload. No matter what they do society is telling them they are wrong. (Just like teachers are getting from society.) Which puts families on edge. Then on top of that broken home after broken home.

    Nothing is wrong and everything is wrong all at the same time. I wouldn't want to be a kid these days.
     
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  6. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    The NRA reveres the constitution, a document that also laid out how slaves would be regarded. We changed the slave thing because it was wrong. The gun thing is wrong too. We need to change it.
     
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  7. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    "But the movement for hardening isn’t just impractical or lacking in evidentiary support; it’s also a dystopian stroke of authoritarianism that runs deeply counter to the ideas embodied in the Constitution. Increasingly militarized school resource officers don’t just passively wait for mass shootings; they have daily encounters with students that appear to be increasing in frequency. Brutality is endemic. Mother Jones chronicled 28 serious student injuries and one death from 2010 to 2015 in such encounters. The brunt of those brutal incidents and arrests falls on black students, and high-profile incidents of officers kicking students, choking them, handcuffing third-graders, and slamming students to the ground are all too common."

    "As Coaston writes, these setups will almost certainly tend towards gross violations of students’ First Amendment rights to speech and Fourth Amendment rights to privacy, and will do so along already-established lines of race and class."
     
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  8. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Feb 23, 2018

    Thank you.

    These things are happening to students of all colors. I've seen quite a number of elementary aged kids in the news handcuffed that were not black. I've personally seen white teens put to the ground by the SROs.

    The question then becomes, is the problem a few rogue officers, poor training on de-escalation procedures, or behaviors of the students who refuse to comply? Is it a change in reporting? Is it really a black problem? I noticed the article said many but didn't give a percentage.

    I'm not saying that these issues aren't important. But with all of the thousands of schools across the country and millions of students (not all well behaved), 28 serious incidents in 5 years isn't surprising especially in this age of harsh punishment or no punishment.

    But what do you propose if, as you pointed out, police in school is also a bad thing? Sadly, kids are violent too and I can almost guarantee if the choice is to remove kids that are misbehaving you will probably see people yelling about the disproportionate number of black students in this category. What's the solution when it is a no-win?
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    I don't think anyone is saying that these things don't also happen to white students. The claim here, supported by research and statistics that can be found by clicking on those red links, is that students of color (as well as students of all races with disabilities) are disproportionately subjected to them.

    I don't necessarily think that police in school is a bad thing. I support the plan of having a resource officer or two, especially at schools in neighborhoods where crime and drugs are prevalent. I don't, however, support the idea of very heavily armed police, armed teachers, or any sort of plan that turns schools into something that more closely resembles a prison.

    If we're going to be throwing money at this problem in order to pay for grenade launchers and more armed personnel, maybe we could use that money instead to provide additional staff in the way of counselors, psychologists, nurses, and social workers, who could help problem students better address their problems. Perhaps we couse use that money to reduce class sizes so that teachers could focus more attention on fewer students, making stronger and deeper connections that might help identify students who are struggling or even prevent this type of violence from happening in the first place. If the pro-gun people are arguing that this is a mental health issue, then let's spend our money addressing the mental health crisis.
     
  10. a2z

    a2z Maven

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    Kids with disabilities are certainly more impacted because they don't process information the same way and have issues that can impact impulse control which then escalates the interaction which is why I pointed out more training for learning how to de-escalate a situation. I also know that many of the black students are angry and tend to lash out and push envelopes which also escalates situations. Again, back to the training.

    I'm not against more counselors, psychologists, nurses, and social workers, but it will be decades before they can make a huge impact. What is the stop gap?

    It isn't just mental health though, it is a society that condones violence, that anything goes, and everyone has to be the top in a society that can instantly, with social media, spread hurt to not just a few but a whole school in minutes.
     
  11. physteach

    physteach Companion

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    Feb 23, 2018

    I asked about these at a recent meeting with our safety guy. He told me that we don't want those because those devices have been used to lock in students to rape them.
     
  12. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Many black parents are saying more guns in school will cause white teachers to murder black students.
     
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  13. webmistress

    webmistress Devotee

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    Quote
    "I know that because the only other group of public employees that is armed at the behest of the state shoots unarmed people of color on the reg. The cops actually receive extensive training on how to use their firearms, how to assess threats, and how to deescalate situations, and yet they still murder innocent civilians all the time.

    Giving a teacher a gun is ASKING them to be afraid. It makes poor judgment a homicidal offense. And that danger will be borne by black and brown students. The students who make teachers “afraid” just by their very existence.


    We’ll be telling teachers to shoot armed terrorists breaching the school. What’s really going to happen is an unarmed black truant loitering in a hallway he’s not supposed to be in who gets shot eight times by the jumpy choir director.


    Oh, she’ll feel just awful about her mistake. But a jury of her peers will never convict her of a crime.

    ------
    America is entirely too racist to arm teachers. Our legal system is INCAPABLE of holding public employees to account for murdering minorities. Black and brown students should not have to die because disgruntled white boys are shooting up their schools."
    https://abovethelaw.com/2018/02/you...ents-getting-murdered-by-their-teacher-right/
     
  14. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Feb 24, 2018

    I see this as a severe and prevalent problem in education. The curricula, the administration, even the clock is all designed for instant success, at least at an 80% level. Those who do not instantly succeed in a singular task are deemed as learning disabled (often prior to testing) or lazy. Those who fall within the 8/10 range, are assumed to be moving along, but their 1/5 misconception infiltrates the next instantaneously achieved objective, leading to another evaluation of 80% or lower.

    Put adults in this situation. I recently bought my first smart phone. Should I feel not smart enough because of all the mistakes I made (and still make) in learning to use it? How about the first mistake I made in which I accidentally dialed the salesman's phone (I thought I correctly followed the instructions to erase his number) and then desperately tried to hang up before it went to voice mail. How about the first call I received on it. I applied previous learning and tapped the icon. Nothing happened. It kept ringing (or ring toning, or whatever it's called). How was I to know that I needed to slide my finger across the icon?

    Now equate this to the student who must be perfect first time every time. That is a lot of pressure on a kid, every day, year after year. Sometimes it seems like kids need to have movie star qualities; if not, they are labeled. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a game of Lifeboat, where we decide who gets thrown overboard. (Did you ever notice that once a student is thrown overboard in first grade s/he rarely can climb back into the boat)? Mel Levine correlates that student with the one who is targeted by the drug peddlers in the business section, 15 minute drive from my house. (An aside, a recent major drug bust was 5 minutes walking distance from where I lived as a teenager, and a direct route in which kids walk home from the local high school). The right side of the Bell Curve is glorified, yet in a standard classroom, most if not all of the students can progress within that right side of the curve--just not instantaneously. Back to the original purpose of this post, it's no wonder that some kids just can't hack it!
     
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  15. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 24, 2018

    Yep.
     

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  16. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Feb 25, 2018

  17. Backroads

    Backroads Fanatic

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    In my state, teachers have been allowed to conceal carry for years. No white teacher has murdered a black student. In fact, there haven't been any incidents whatsoever.

    Now, I'm not supporting forcing teachers to be armed, as yes, I think that would increase accidental shootings.

    But what I am saying is that if teachers are already armed in some areas, wouldn't we already have had a racially charged teacher-to-student shooting?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
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  18. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Mar 1, 2018

  19. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Oh, it happened.
     
  20. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Mar 1, 2018

    So imagine. Gun goes off, armed teachers in adjacent classrooms hear bang(s) and screams and come running out into hall. 1st person they see is another adult with a gun. Blue on blue? Or armed response arrives from outside and sees adults in halls with guns!
     

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