Let's talk school shootings

Discussion in 'General Education' started by Caesar753, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Feb 19, 2018

    For what earthly purpose do kids need textbooks in class? Seriously. The teacher should be teaching in class. The textbook is a good reference to keep at home, and good for homework assignments, but there is no need to lug those things around every day. Take it home and leave it home. Worst case scenario, if they are needed in class, maintain a class set.
     
  2. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    Feb 19, 2018

    I am not going to play the what-if game about past events of which I do not know all the details. I think I made it pretty clear though in how it could reduce vulnerabilities. For an assailant to rack up a massive body count in those locations, he must first sneak the weapon into those locations.
     
  3. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Feb 19, 2018

    You have the 2nd amendment to enable you to defend yourselves just in case us evil British decide to invade again. I can tell you that we probably won't be doing that anytime soon. It seems that the price of having the right to unlimited gun ownership is a massive death rate including regular mass shootings in schools and at other places such as Las Vegas. Your debate is whether this is a price worth paying just so some individuals can be better armed than the American soldiers who stormed up Omaha beach and can stockpile more bullets than were probably fired at the battle of Gettysburg. Who exactly do you think these people are defending themselves from?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. blazer

    blazer Connoisseur

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    Feb 19, 2018

    Thick textbooks may be bulletproof.
     
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  5. Obadiah

    Obadiah Groupie

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    Feb 19, 2018

    I read in the news that the students from Parkland and other students around the U.S. are planning a rally in Washington to express their opinion on gun control. Some are also organizing peaceful rallies in their hometown. Although we all have agreements or disagreements politically on this issue, I think it's noteworthy and remarkable that young high school students are taking positive action concerning something they believe in.
     
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  6. JimG

    JimG Comrade

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    Feb 19, 2018

    Deleted. Double-posted something that I thought hadn’t gone through initially.
     
  7. Belch

    Belch Companion

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    Feb 20, 2018

    I use them primarily as a way to forgo spending time in front of the lithograph machine.

    For many subjects, a textbook can be left at home, but for others, they make things easier. Not to mention that homework is one of those ideals I'd prefer, but not exactly relevant, if you know what I mean.
     
  8. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    It's a multi-faceted problem that needs to be addressed on the family front, the mental health front, the bullying front, the isolation front, the cultural "anything goes" and disregard for human life front, and, yes, the gun front. I doubt the staunchest 2nd Amendment supporter believes the Sandy Hook shooter or the Florida shooter should've been allowed to have a gun.

    That said, when all those fronts fail (and, at some point they will because humans have been breaking laws and murdering each other for all of human history), we need a plan in place to save lives. When the deranged shooter is running toward my classroom with a gun, me screaming, "MORE COUNSELORS!!!" doesn't help. Stopping him with firepower does. I propose allowing teachers who hold concealed carry licenses to be able to carry at school, with the gun on their person (not in a drawer or bag), or, if we don't like that idea, providing armed security details at a 1:500 (or any part thereof) armed guard-to-student/teacher ratio.

    Yes, do all we can to stop them before they start. But once a shooting HAS started, we need to stop it as quickly and effectively as possible. And, unfortunately, that means bullets. Not what a signed up for, but it is a current reality.
     
  9. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I think this is just a terrible idea.
     
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  10. TrademarkTer

    TrademarkTer Groupie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    But don't ya know----the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun!!!
     
  11. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    More guns. Guns in schools with hundreds of children. What could possibility go wrong?
     
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  12. ms.irene

    ms.irene Connoisseur

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    Feb 21, 2018

    The day I am supposed to be armed as a teacher will be the day I quit.
     
  13. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Would someone mind expounding on why it's a bad idea? Again, I don't propose forcing guns on teachers--you only carry if you want to. Secondly, the gun needs to be on their person, not in a purse or drawer. Third, a good guy with a gun sounds like a MUCH better plan to me than running or ducking and covering. Many districts have adopted what's called the ALICE method--the C stands for counter. The idea is teachers have the ability to throw things, charge the gunman, etc. if that seems like the best option. I'd much rather counter with a weapon than with a textbook or box of pencils.

    I try to be pretty open minded, so please, genuinely, tell me why it's a bad idea instead of making fun.
     
  14. viola_x_wittrockiana

    viola_x_wittrockiana Comrade

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Here's why it's not a good idea. With the weapons that are available, unless it happened starting in/adjacent to an armed teacher's room, by the time someone could respond the damage would already be done. Before anyone discounts this, think about all of the variables and priorities. It takes time for the sound to register as gunfire, time to identify where the sound originated, time to secure your own students, time to get to that part of the building, time to locate the shooter(s), and more time to get a clear shot. It's better to have armed resource officers who are trained to do all of that faster and free from duties to a class than to have armed teachers. Any outside forces also wouldn't know who's a teacher running around armed and who the aggressor is, which is another unnecessary risk. That's only accounting for logistics and not any of the liability/responsibility or psychological issues involved. It's even better to try to stop guns from getting into schools in the first place.
    I get it. I don't want to be a sitting duck either, but guns aren't the only weapons in existence. The risk of accidental shootings outweighs the benefit of having a gun in the classroom IMO. Personally, I favor bludgeon-y or stab-y choices because they better suit my skills and a bat or bookend aren't going to accidentally kill my students. But again, the best offense is a good defense. How about we have classrooms better equipped to keep students protected instead of accepting passive risk as a necessary choice?
     
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  15. Tyler B.

    Tyler B. Groupie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Bad idea:
    - More bullets flying around a place with lots of children.
    - Pistol vs. AR-15: who's going to win that one?
    - During a chaotic episode, it may be unclear who the bad guy is
    - Every day, some teacher's purse is stolen from a locked desk or cabinet
    - Simple firearm training is insufficient. Teachers would need combat training and constant refreshers
    - I know some teachers who would make me uncomfortable knowing they were armed
    - In other countries, students don't need to try to learn around a bunch of deadly weapons. It's unfair to children and staff to attempt learning/teaching in that environment.
    - There's no other first world country where teachers are armed. That's because it's a bad idea and they control who has guns.

    The solution is extremely clear. Other nations have dealt with problem, or avoided the problem, by making it very hard for civilians to own military weapons. If the shooters had a bolt action hunting rifle with a 5 shot magazine, Las Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook and Florida would have far fewer deaths.

    Ban military weapons.
     
  16. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    If we do this, and a shooter comes in with a pistol or a knife, what's the argument then?

    Thanks for replying--I believe we all genuinely want to protect kids. Why can't we try it ALL? Mental health, crack down on bad guys with guns, and arm teachers or put armed guards in.
     
  17. DinoTeach

    DinoTeach Rookie

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I do like the idea of safer/more secure classroom. I seem to remember a device a few years back that made it almost impossible to open a door. Maybe we should equip all rooms with those.
     
  18. Caesar753

    Caesar753 Multitudinous

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    Feb 21, 2018

    Maybe we shouldn't be training our children to live in a police state where every person they interact with is armed with a gun. Are we preparing them for life, prison, or a military state? The normalization of guns guns guns everywhere can't be good for the minds and hearts of these little ones. The additional bullets that would be flying around can't be good for any parts of their bodies.
     
  19. catnfiddle

    catnfiddle Moderator

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I'll just leave this here since we need a slight comedy relief... mixed with some truth from the great sage Robin Williams.
     
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  20. gr3teacher

    gr3teacher Phenom

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    Feb 21, 2018

    I will never teach in a building which regularly has a loaded gun. Ever. If a cop needs to pop in once in awhile, that's different, but I will never teach in a building with an armed security guard or armed teachers. Nope. Not interested.
     

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